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On June 04 2010 13:39 Artosis wrote:
im simply stating the truth here. idra and i looked into it completely. i did nothing but play vs mech for 2 weeks. i spoke with every top zerg player on the subject. we tested every combo and timing. i am not whining, i know it will be patched, im simply stating the findings of the best players, something else that you should love.
Will the tank + thor nerf make much of a difference then? Or is it a question of buffing zerg in some way instead of nerfing terran?
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On June 04 2010 13:31 Artosis wrote:
TLO is completely wrong. pre-this-patch (havent tried this patch yet), properly played mech is completely unbeatable by zerg. if he's been winning vs it, he's been playing people who have no idea how to mech.
replay or it didn't happen. did you get rolled over by pubs laddering? name who can do it then. no one?
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Artosis there are 9 zerg combat units 10 if you include drops/overlords and 11 if you count nydus as a "unit" strategy. that means that there are hundreds upon hundreds of different combos, not including timings you tested ALL of them?
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
ok done posting in sc2 forum once again lmfao.
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On June 04 2010 13:43 PrinceXizor wrote:
Artosis there are 9 zerg combat units 10 if you include drops/overlords and 11 if you count nydus as a "unit" strategy. that means that there are hundreds upon hundreds of different combos, not including timings you tested ALL of them?
Lol!! Are you serious? Thanks for scaring away one few known players to post in this thread.
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I honestly believe TLO Zerg can crush Mech.
TLO is NOT a machine like some "other" zergs and can actually think of unique ways to look at a problem.
This is what makes him so dangerous as a player. The guy didn't even HOTKEY for the first few weeks of beta and was still crushing top players.
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lol Artosis at least you got what you wished for 
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On June 04 2010 13:47 space_yes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 13:43 PrinceXizor wrote:
Artosis there are 9 zerg combat units 10 if you include drops/overlords and 11 if you count nydus as a "unit" strategy. that means that there are hundreds upon hundreds of different combos, not including timings you tested ALL of them? Lol!! Are you serious? Thanks for scaring away one few good players to post in this thread.
lol he's obv trolling
<edit> ok mbee not, lol =[[
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I wouldn't say anything artosis because i love your zerg and i think you're real good, but i've been beating mech, with difficulty, but i've been beating it, and i'm not near as good as you and idra are.
EDIT: also you shouldn't say you've tested every combination of unit and timing possible when really you haven't. if he was some random scrub i'd be applauded for calling him on a clear overexaggeration.
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On June 04 2010 13:48 guitarizt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 13:47 space_yes wrote:On June 04 2010 13:43 PrinceXizor wrote:
Artosis there are 9 zerg combat units 10 if you include drops/overlords and 11 if you count nydus as a "unit" strategy. that means that there are hundreds upon hundreds of different combos, not including timings you tested ALL of them? Lol!! Are you serious? Thanks for scaring away one few good players to post in this thread. lol he's obv trolling
Honestly its hard to tell sometimes. I forgot about the previous unit counting business*..but still you never know given the quality of some of these posts..
*I think this was the thread on why zerg is dominant on Asia
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On June 04 2010 13:45 Artosis wrote:
ok done posting in sc2 forum once again lmfao.
Don't leave us >.> Would you mind sharing some of the information you came across? I'm interested in the opinions of some of the top players, beyond that of just "lolimba" or "lolnotimba"; I want to see what they actually think, in full.
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im simply stating the truth here. idra and i looked into it completely. i did nothing but play vs mech for 2 weeks. i spoke with every top zerg player on the subject. we tested every combo and timing. i am not whining, i know it will be patched, im simply stating the findings of the best players, something else that you should love.
The rhetorical question is: is a 10 point damage decrease enough? I think Blizzard again adressed the problem in the wrong way. I don't want tanks to do 10 less dmg (that changed nothing to the initial hit just reduced the splash a bit), i want a slower atackrate or "dumbed" targeting AI...
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Yeah he shouldn't leave just because of that. i mean really? He could post something about the various unit combinations he's tried and why he doesn't think the other likely solutions are viable and we could hardly argue with him. i mean he plays better quality mech players than i do but he's also a better quality zerg player than i am.
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If artosis says hes has been playing mech for 2 weeks, and talk to all the top zergs in asia and they cant even come up with something that sort of works im going to go ahead and say it needed to be nerfed
still like TLO's way of believing he can do anything though
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I hate this patch. Seriously, make Zerg better against Terran, not Terran worst against both Zerg and Protoss.
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each race has 15 units. blizzard said in an interview shortly after sc2 beta started they wanted each race to have 15 units before expansions so things wouldnt be too complicated
i counted and damn, there really is 15 units. blizzard counts a unit as anything that costs minerals and/or gas and has no timed life and isnt a attachment of an already existing unit and could somehow effect combat in some way other than just tanking damage
Terran units: 15
marine
marauder
reaper
ghost
hellion
siege tank
thor
viking
medivac
banshee
raven
battlecruiser
bunker
missile turret
sensor tower
Protoss units: 15
zealot
sentry
stalker
high templar
dark templar
archon
immortal
collossi
observer
warp prism
void ray
pheonix
carrier
mothership
photon cannon
Zerg units: 15
zergling
baneling
roach
hydralisk
mutalisk
infestor
curruptor
brood lord
ultralisk
queen
overlord
overseer
spine crawler
spore crawler
nydus network
whats depressing is i am not making this crap up. blizzard really views game balance like this
and whats retarded here is that the spells on the queen, chrono boost, and BOTH planetary fortress and orbital commands are counted as macro mechanics (and not units). which is pretty gay because this gives terran essentially 2 bonus units (scan and PF) while zerg loses one of their combat units to be a macro mechanic and protoss gets their macro mechanic for free without losing a unit
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you people act like its hard to test something like this thoroughly..
tanks obliterate everything except roaches, kind of, on the ground and sensor towers make any kind of drop, nydus, harass-based play worthless. doesnt give you many options, you figure out that overwhelming them with roaches is impractical, ultras still suck, mutas can run around being gay but ultimately you're gonna have to deal with an army that... you cant deal with, and pdd + vikings > heavy air.
the only way to win was to either have your opponent not execute it correctly, either in terms of mechanics or not using sensor towers or ravens, or to simply be way better than them.
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On June 04 2010 13:58 roymarthyup wrote:+ Show Spoiler +each race has 15 units. blizzard said in an interview shortly after sc2 beta started they wanted each race to have 15 units before expansions so things wouldnt be too complicated
i counted and damn, there really is 15 units. blizzard counts a unit as anything that costs minerals and/or gas and has no timed life and isnt a attachment of an already existing unit and could somehow effect combat in some way other than just tanking damage
Terran units: 15
marine
marauder
reaper
ghost
hellion
siege tank
thor
viking
medivac
banshee
raven
battlecruiser
bunker
missile turret
sensor tower
Protoss units: 15
zealot
sentry
stalker
high templar
dark templar
archon
immortal
collossi
observer
warp prism
void ray
pheonix
carrier
mothership
photon cannon
Zerg units: 15
zergling
baneling
roach
hydralisk
mutalisk
infestor
curruptor
brood lord
ultralisk
queen
overlord
overseer
spine crawler
spore crawler
nydus network
whats depressing is i am not making this crap up. blizzard really views game balance like this
and whats retarded here is that the spells on the queen, chrono boost, and BOTH planetary fortress and orbital commands are counted as macro mechanics (and not units). which is pretty gay because this gives terran essentially 2 bonus units (scan and PF) while zerg loses one of their combat units to be a macro mechanic and protoss gets their macro mechanic for free without losing a unit
spoilered cause of size. but are you srsly counting scan as a unit? i mean wtf?
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I fail to see how mutas don't work vs terran mech. I think that a majority of Zerg players make the following mistakes with their mutas:
1) They directly engage multiple thors
2) They are afraid of killing missile turrets (more on this below)
3) When the opponent's army attacks, they run back and fight it
The conclusion I came to from testing was that Mutas are the answer to terran Mech. If the Terran player attacks, just have a base race. You will both end up losing your base, but the mutas can fly around the map preventing terran from expoing while zerg can continue to expo and stay alive while thors are too slow to prevent it.
Zerg players throw a panic fit when the Terran places missile turrets and then attacks. Once you get 6+ mutas, you can drop missile turrets without a scratch. Just drop the turrets. Zerg players are WAY too scared of missile turrets.
You can win a fight vs mutas with thors but if the fight doesn't occur that advantage is completely negated.
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On June 04 2010 14:00 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 13:58 roymarthyup wrote:+ Show Spoiler +each race has 15 units. blizzard said in an interview shortly after sc2 beta started they wanted each race to have 15 units before expansions so things wouldnt be too complicated
i counted and damn, there really is 15 units. blizzard counts a unit as anything that costs minerals and/or gas and has no timed life and isnt a attachment of an already existing unit and could somehow effect combat in some way other than just tanking damage
Terran units: 15
marine
marauder
reaper
ghost
hellion
siege tank
thor
viking
medivac
banshee
raven
battlecruiser
bunker
missile turret
sensor tower
Protoss units: 15
zealot
sentry
stalker
high templar
dark templar
archon
immortal
collossi
observer
warp prism
void ray
pheonix
carrier
mothership
photon cannon
Zerg units: 15
zergling
baneling
roach
hydralisk
mutalisk
infestor
curruptor
brood lord
ultralisk
queen
overlord
overseer
spine crawler
spore crawler
nydus network
whats depressing is i am not making this crap up. blizzard really views game balance like this
and whats retarded here is that the spells on the queen, chrono boost, and BOTH planetary fortress and orbital commands are counted as macro mechanics (and not units). which is pretty gay because this gives terran essentially 2 bonus units (scan and PF) while zerg loses one of their combat units to be a macro mechanic and protoss gets their macro mechanic for free without losing a unit spoilered cause of size. but are you srsly counting scan as a unit? i mean wtf?
orbitals and PF and sensor towers can effect combat
and im saying scan is like a bonus unit. obviously in my list scan is not being counted as a unit since blizzard does not count scan as a unit. but it still effects combat like a unit can.
blizzard counts PF and orbitals as macro mechanics as shown how blizzard talks about having to sacrifice mules to get the PF which to them is part of the macro mechanic even though pf's can be spammed around the map blocking every choke for basically the price of a thor+mule each and costs no food and can nuetralize 100 food of your army if attacking near one. o well whatever
no im not counting scan as a unit. im saying its sorta like a bonus unit though
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EPT
