|
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular competitive game. Nothing groundbreaking was changed except the addition and removal of some content. HoN : DOTA is the same as SC2 : SCBW, yet somehow Battle.net 2.0 is being met with hostility while the HoN interface has given players everything they've ever asked for.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2?
Here are screenshots showing the Heroes of Newerth interface
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN1-1.gif
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN2-1.gif
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN3.gif
I would also like to add that HoN is already released, was in beta for months, and the interface has undergone several major changes during that time. However, chat channels, "cross realm play" (there are no real realms in HoN), and custom game creation has been there from day 1.
![[image loading]](http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HonGame.gif)
|
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod.
|
On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod.
you didnt take reading lessons did you? if you cant understand what op is saying , retrain yourself from posting
and ill agree with op
|
On June 02 2010 10:11 Smikis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod. you didnt take reading lessons did you? if you cant understand what op is saying , retrain yourself from posting and ill agree with op
i took reading lessons, and i dont understand what op is saying. is S2 sc2? or a heart? or some sort of HoN reference?
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2.
wat, they are completely diff games
other than that statement, I do agree that HoN has a much better online system thingeh compared to bnet 2.0
|
HoN - no LAN.
but it has chat channels!
|
dammit, i thought this was a topic about  s2 
|
What the hell is S2? HoN is not a copy of SC2. HoN is a team-based 5v5 based on DoTa, which makes is identical to SC2 how? Unless you are saying how starcraft 2 should copy its UI (menus etc) from HoW, which isn't something that is going to happen. In any case, be more clear in yourOP.
|
chaaatt channeeellsss 
|
HoN has just about every option people have thought up so far that would make the game better. They LISTEN to their customers for once.
Must say I play more HoN now than SC2, regardless of SC2 being the better "game".. Its just a more fun overall experience instead of the cold, buggy existence that is bnet 2.0.
|
Hon system > bnet 2.0 at its current state. But i still have faith in blizzard
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2?
ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect.
oh and it has chat channels ^^
|
The HoN interface is sloppy as HELL. Im a web developer and deal with creating user interfaces all day, and the HoN interface feels like they slapped it on without a second thought. You get all kinds of pop ups that cover up important UI elements. For example, I've accidentally chosen a hero and had to repick because there was a message box OVER the list of heroes, and the "hit box" for the X that closed the message box was off of the graphic (you click on the X and nothing happens, move your mouse a little off the X and suddenly it lights up and you can click it). Their UI was so bad it got in the way of the MOST IMPORTANT action in the game: choosing your hero! Why the hell would you ever put a message box over that?
I think you mean the *features* of S2's online system, and with that I can agree (except no team matchmaking yet). The filter to find games is awesome, i like that you can search for games while you're in a game. You can reconnect if you get dropped. All kinds of features that make getting into quality games easier and more enjoyable.
|
S2 is the developer of Heroes of Newerth. I've never played the game in my life, but I know it has a system where if a player disconnects it gives him a few minutes to reconnect and can jump right back into the game.
|
S2 is the developer of HoN, so op is implying that Blizzard should take a lesson from S2 in terms of designing an online gaming environment, which is true.
|
On June 02 2010 10:19 Jadix wrote:
The HoN interface is sloppy as HELL. Im a web developer and deal with creating user interfaces all day, and the HoN interface feels like they slapped it on without a second thought. You get all kinds of pop ups that cover up important UI elements. For example, I've accidentally chosen a hero and had to repick because there was a message box OVER the list of heroes, and the "hit box" for the X that closed the message box was off of the graphic (you click on the X and nothing happens, move your mouse a little off the X and suddenly it lights up and you can click it). Their UI was so bad it got in the way of the MOST IMPORTANT action in the game: choosing your hero! Why the hell would you ever put a message box over that?
I think you mean the *features* of S2's online system, and with that I can agree (except no team matchmaking yet). The filter to find games is awesome, i like that you can search for games while you're in a game. You can reconnect if you get dropped. All kinds of features that make getting into quality games easier and more enjoyable.
The UI has changed since beta, it's very clean now and i can assure you that the notifications are nowhere near the heroes.
|
OP isn't saying that sc2 = HoN, he's saying that SC2 is, to his mind, a prettier and newer version of BW (which it isn't). He wants Blizz to copy HoN's online features with regards to how it functions (i.e., HoN has a reconnect option if u drop, etc).
HoN is exactly what DotA needed-- reconnect options, better game engine built exactly for that kind of game, etc. Bnet 2.0 just blows in large part. bnet from wc3 >>>>>> bnet from sc2 in pretty much every respect (minor problem with wc3 ladder matchmaking, sc2 is better in this sense).
|
When I played HoN beta my first thoughts were "Wow I hope Blizzard is taking notes for battle.net 2.0"
I have been severely disappointed
|
You said HoN is a mirror of SC2. When you look in a mirror you see yourself exactly how you are. This makes no sense to me.
|
United States47024 Posts
On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect.
oh and it has chat channels ^^
It's been stated that reconnect features are not practical in a 1v1 game, or a game that changes as quickly as SC/SC2. Disconnecting and reconnecting in a minute in HoN results in a game where you can reasonably come back from your slight disadvantage. A minute where you're macroing in SC2 and your opponent isn't can result in an insurmountable advantage. And it isn't fair to make your opponent sit in a paused game on the off-chance that his opponent *might* reconnect.
|
On June 02 2010 10:55 Elegy wrote:
OP isn't saying that sc2 = HoN, he's saying that SC2 is, to his mind, a prettier and newer version of BW (which it isn't). He wants Blizz to copy HoN's online features with regards to how it functions (i.e., HoN has a reconnect option if u drop, etc).
HoN is exactly what DotA needed-- reconnect options, better game engine built exactly for that kind of game, etc. Bnet 2.0 just blows in large part. bnet from wc3 >>>>>> bnet from sc2 in pretty much every respect (minor problem with wc3 ladder matchmaking, sc2 is better in this sense).
Finally someone who takes time to read and understand what the OP is saying. *cough* Tump *cough.*'
As for my own thoughts on this, I agree that Blizzard could learn a lesson or two from S2 Games (for those of you that don't know S2 is the co. that created HON.) I enjoy many of the things about the HON UI (chat rooms being one of them, and especially the ability to reconnect to games after being dropped for w/e reason.)
|
On June 02 2010 10:57 RyanS wrote:
You said HoN is a mirror of SC2. When you look in a mirror you see yourself exactly how you are. This makes no sense to me.
Perhaps he means that in a mirror, things appear to be flipped in the opposite direction. Perhaps it's not a good analogy.
Regardless, I agree with the OP. I don't understand how Blizzard, a huge company with massive revenues and resources, can't deliver an online experience that matches HoN's. S2 is a small developer and HoN was around long before Bnet2.0. Especially with all the hype Blizz is putting into Bnet2, I'm at a loss as to how the design and programming team failed so hard.
|
agreed, the HoN interface is splendid compared to bnet 2.0... Even the HoN replay interface puts SC2's to shame.
|
On June 02 2010 11:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect.
oh and it has chat channels ^^ It's been stated that reconnect features are not practical in a 1v1 game, or a game that changes as quickly as SC/SC2. Disconnecting and reconnecting in a minute in HoN results in a game where you can reasonably come back from your slight disadvantage. A minute where you're macroing in SC2 and your opponent isn't can result in an insurmountable advantage. And it isn't fair to make your opponent sit in a paused game on the off-chance that his opponent *might* reconnect.
Yeah, in 1v1 it's not that useful. But in 4v4, it might be nice.
And more importantly, in custom games, it'd be awesome. HoN is, of course, based on the WC3 mod DotA. Reconnecting didn't work in DotA because Bnet didn't support it. If Bnet 2.0 did, it could help later custom games be good.
Of course, this is clearly a minor detail compared to some of the other issues Bnet 2.0 has.
(and in other news, my interpretation of the OP is that he things Blizzard should do to BW what S2 did to DotA: copy the mechanics as closely as possible, but with a better UI and possibly some added content. But considering the wildly divergent interpretations of the OP, it's entirely possible I, too, am incorrect)
|
-------------------------------------------
Um... sorry for the confusion I guess I should have explained it better. HoN : DOTA, SC2 : SCBW
Basically, HoN is updated DOTA and SC2 is updated SCBW. If you really don't understand this, and you think SC2 is a brand spanking new game, well it's not. The mechanics have changed drastically, but you still build workers, mine minerals, gather gas, construct supply depots, and micro mutalisks. You still develop strategies involving build orders. SC2 is, in every sense, SCBW updated and thats a GOOD thing because SCBW was kickass. Now, HoN mirrors SC2 because its an updated version of DOTA free of lag, leavers, and bad graphics.
My point was the HoN interface update rocked, and was very well designed. Bnet update - not so much -_-
|
My favorite part of HoN compared to dota is the player to server instead of p2p connections. So if 1 guy is lagging fierce it won't affect anyone else. I'm not sure but I heard it also combats hacking?
I wonder why blizz won't do this for sc2
|
On June 02 2010 11:54 Zekke wrote:
My favorite part of HoN compared to dota is the player to server instead of p2p connections. So if 1 guy is lagging fierce it won't affect anyone else. I'm not sure but I heard it also combats hacking?
I wonder why blizz won't do this for sc2
Um, unless you are trolling yes they did do it for SC2 which is one of the things messing up the custom map hosting. Since all custom maps are hosted by blizzard, instead of a list appearing of users who hosted a specific map ALL custom maps ever made (even ones with nobody playing in them at the moment) appear in one list which makes it unmanageable.
|
He's saying HoN is to DotA as SC2 is to BW.
S2 Games is the company that makes HoN.
I agree, though probably not for the same reasons. HoN, like SC2, has better graphics and a small amount of original content that isn't from DotA. However in the transition from DotA (and BW) they left out some of the key parts that make it a DotA clone (mainly slimming down the hero choices by about 50). While SC2 should take some tips from HoN's interface (and netcode, HoN is amazingly smooth online), they both made the mistake of cutting crucial content from the original.
|
Blizzard has nothing to learn lol, if anything they are the ones teaching everyone else on how to "MICROTRANSACTIONS" every possible feature. They could make any game pro if they actually tried on making good games and not profitable games. S2 is not in Blizzard's league, in fact I don't think any other company can compare itself to what blizzard is capable of doing, its simply a shame blizzard doesnt care anymore -- $$$$$$$$$$$$
|
On June 02 2010 10:56 Tsagacity wrote:When I played HoN beta my first thoughts were "Wow I hope Blizzard is taking notes for battle.net 2.0" I have been severely disappointed
A thousand times this. I don't think I'd be nearly as pissed had I never seen S2's version of Battle.net.
I figured they'd be kicking themselves, pissed that they hadn't capitalized on DotA yet and taking notes to make their own new product better. I guess they were too busy having lunch with Facebook execs.
|
On June 02 2010 11:46 positronix wrote:
-------------------------------------------
Um... sorry for the confusion I guess I should have explained it better. HoN : DOTA, SC2 : SCBW
Basically, HoN is updated DOTA and SC2 is updated SCBW. If you really don't understand this, and you think SC2 is a brand spanking new game, well it's not. The mechanics have changed drastically, but you still build workers, mine minerals, gather gas, construct supply depots, and micro mutalisks. You still develop strategies involving build orders. SC2 is, in every sense, SCBW updated and thats a GOOD thing because SCBW was kickass. Now, HoN mirrors SC2 because its an updated version of DOTA free of lag, leavers, and bad graphics.
My point was the HoN interface update rocked, and was very well designed. Bnet update - not so much -_-
i agree that blizzard with the op but i disagree that SC2 is an updated SC:BW. from what i hear HoN is really good, and have done a very great job with the new shit they put in there, i would believe that not even a remake would > original Dota but in HoN's case, it's somewhat true. i'm the person who knows that BW exceeds SC2 by far, and SC2 has a long road for it to become just as good as BW.
|
First of all, I play HoN, and I love the game, and some parts of the UI can be drafted, but the important stuff, the netcode will not work.
HoN isn't a traditional FPS, in the sense that the unit measure always stays around the same. Starcraft has a much higher potential for massive armies, and buildings are also created with different functions. Thus Starcraft employs a turn based system, every turn, orders are recorded and sent to everyone, with the orders enacted a few steps later. This allows basically no bottleneck in networking, however latency is decided by the slowest computer.
In HoN, the networking follows the idea of games such as counterstrike. There is a server and client and everything is pretty much done as close to real time as possible. Individual lag will not affect other players and server lag will affect everyone.
HoN's netcode will not work with Starcraft.
|
Reading comprehension and the ability to understand analogies must be at an all time low in the tl forum
I completely agree with the OP. The UI of HoN is very good and feature rich. It has much of the spectator and replay features sc2 should also have.
|
I got into the HoN beta a long time ago. I never played DOTA and don't really have any interest in the game, but I did play around with it for kicks.
S2 pretty much gives the competitive community exactly what they want in the smartest way they can. I think that is what the OP is talking about - the mindset and philosophy of the developer is geared towards the competitive community's needs. All the great features they have (seeing anyone's replays... ever, cheat-resistant hosting, balancing) can make anyone (even a complete DOTA newbie like myself) realize that the game is designed for competitive use.
|
On June 02 2010 10:57 RyanS wrote:
You said HoN is a mirror of SC2. When you look in a mirror you see yourself exactly how you are. This makes no sense to me.
Its a mirror situation is what he is saying. HoN is like dota 2.0, while sc2 is starcraft 2.0. Get it? That should of been pretty easy to figure out.
|
|
|
I dunno, I don't like the s2 system that much tbh, the w3 one is better but both could have improvements. Don't think sc2 should just take someone's interface cause it has so much potential to improve upon already established systems, ofc as of now any other system (e.g. sc:bw, a rock) I'd take over this horrid bnet 2.0. Hell, I'll take the w2 benet if it means my placement matches count, my replays don't bug out, and I can chat with random people about how gay ZvZ is.
|
On June 02 2010 13:34 Count9 wrote:
I dunno, I don't like the s2 system that much tbh, the w3 one is better ...
Can you explain this?
I can't see any war3 bnet feature that is not present in HoN too.
In addition, HoN has plenty new features that the war3 bnet has not.
|
|
|
On June 02 2010 13:17 FrickenHamster wrote:
First of all, I play HoN, and I love the game, and some parts of the UI can be drafted, but the important stuff, the netcode will not work.
HoN isn't a traditional FPS, in the sense that the unit measure always stays around the same. Starcraft has a much higher potential for massive armies, and buildings are also created with different functions. Thus Starcraft employs a turn based system, every turn, orders are recorded and sent to everyone, with the orders enacted a few steps later. This allows basically no bottleneck in networking, however latency is decided by the slowest computer.
In HoN, the networking follows the idea of games such as counterstrike. There is a server and client and everything is pretty much done as close to real time as possible. Individual lag will not affect other players and server lag will affect everyone.
HoN's netcode will not work with Starcraft.
Nothing you said prevents HoN's netcode from working with SC2.
Why does StarCraft II need to use a system where all the clients operate in synchronized turns? That has been the model for RTS netcode for nearly a decade, but it is inferior to other models. If the server maintains its own copy of the game state, the clients only need to synchronize with the server and not each other. If one client stops responding for a few moments, the other clients can continue and the client that got behind will catchup when it starts receiving messages again.
|
HoN's system atm is just so much better than Bnet 2.0 . You can autofollow friends into games, it has chat channels, actually _good_ matchmaking and looks/feels so much more responsive than the Bnet 0.2 interface.
|
Blizzard should learn with Hon and improve (even tho i dont Hon system but several people in here say is very good so i believe) and if they cannot learn with them so just fucking copy but dont let things like this...
|
On June 02 2010 10:17 sidesprang wrote:Hon system > bnet 2.0 at its current state. But i still have faith in blizzard
anything is better that battlenet2.0
battlenet2.0 is a downgrade from bnet1.0
i am optimistic, though that in the several weeks break (after 7th june) the team working on bnet2.0 will make the final version of the interface (which right now has single player disabled, and such)
anyways, this huge break will definetly bring something new and awesome (this is such a long break to be just a before-release break), something that blizzard is keeping as such a tight secret.
Check out the surveys on the battle.net site (wether its eu or us or asia) They are making a survey regarding the interface, about friends system, chat channels, parties(i guess they wanted parties to be some chat channels with just the people you want to chat with, and clan system will bring additions to the multiplayer ...... but people who don't have rl friends playing this game are practicly isolated without a chat channel to start making sc2 buddies/join a clan and practice seriously)
The interface after patch13 was slightly improved, but not significantly.
I say, wait until after the several weeks break, then see what blizzard brings new, as criticising work-in-progress is wrong !
|
On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect. oh and it has chat channels ^^
lolz, imagine reconnecting to a game after 5 minutes in starcraft2.
yeah, like that is going to accomplish something unless you destroyed the opponent's whole army and base, he cannot make any units and while you destory everything you disconnect before his last building gets killed. in this case it's worth it, but really just in 2vs2 , 3vs3 , 4vs4 when the other players take control of your dorces, then it is useful to be able to reconnect.
|
the funniest part of this thread and all the misunderstandings in it is hon is actually a crappy version of dota gameplay wise. it is just glossed over by a bunch of usability and features that arent even necesary once you reach a decent level of play.
make a subpar product, make it really shiney and pretty, corner the baddie market.
does sound like bnet2 afterall.
|
Uuuh, to all the idiots laughing off the reconnect feature, I mean it's not like Blizzard couldn't implement a mandatory pause to give your opponent a chance to reconnect. If you people actually took 5 seconds to stop and think instead of regurgitating someone else's wrong opinions, you could see the feature is innovative and incredibly useful.
Even without a pause, there are times when I could reconnect in HoN in under 30 seconds for whatever reason, it doesn't make winning a game impossible, just that much harder. Besides, the real use of the reconnect feature is for UMS games, where 30 seconds definitely won't make you lose.
It should be in the game, it would be incredibly useful for spectators,casters and UMS players and there is no conceivable argument why it shouldn't other than Blizzard's Bnet 2.0 sucks and they are lazy.
|
On June 02 2010 20:06 Lachrymose wrote:
the funniest part of this thread and all the misunderstandings in it is hon is actually a crappy version of dota gameplay wise. it is just glossed over by a bunch of usability and features that arent even necesary once you reach a decent level of play.
make a subpar product, make it really shiney and pretty, corner the baddie market.
does sound like bnet2 afterall.
The funniest part is that you're wrong and HoN's interface is superior in pretty much every way (nice try calling it gloss though), which is under discussion in this thread that you're trying to derail with your irrelevant opinion on HoN's gameplay.
|
On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod.
Not a single mention of BW in the OP.
|
On June 02 2010 20:06 Lachrymose wrote:
the funniest part of this thread and all the misunderstandings in it is hon is actually a crappy version of dota gameplay wise. it is just glossed over by a bunch of usability and features that arent even necesary once you reach a decent level of play.
make a subpar product, make it really shiney and pretty, corner the baddie market.
does sound like bnet2 afterall.
I can't even begin to explain how wrong you are.
No maphacking, playable latency, and proper testing/balancing are three of the most important things 'once you reach a decent level of play.'
Infact, it sounds more like you played DotA, tried HoN, sucked at it, and then made several terrible assumptions and stopped.
I agree with the OP in theory that Bnet 2.0 needs to take some major tips from online interfaces that don't fail (HoN), because honestly a $30 game having more functionality than a $180 game is just ridiculous.
|
Well, HoN is basically just Dota in better graphics, so they didn't have much conceptual work to do, it was basically just mechanical improvements, which players are praising since the DotA platform (before iCCup Dota imo) was pretty much terrible.
So of course they SHOULD have improved plenty, because that's all the work they did, was just copying and improving. Starcraft 2 is not Starcraft 3D, it's an entirely new game, so if they didn't have the new interface features and better networking, what would they have? A DotA clone, end of story.
If you wanna play DotA, just play DotA, why are these shiny remakes necessary?
|
On June 02 2010 10:56 Tsagacity wrote:When I played HoN beta my first thoughts were "Wow I hope Blizzard is taking notes for battle.net 2.0" I have been severely disappointed
QFT. HoN pretty much gave you every simple feature you could want without going overboard with useless fancy stuff.
|
On June 02 2010 20:17 Sadistx wrote:
Uuuh, to all the idiots laughing off the reconnect feature, I mean it's not like Blizzard couldn't implement a mandatory pause to give your opponent a chance to reconnect. If you people actually took 5 seconds to stop and think instead of regurgitating someone else's wrong opinions, you could see the feature is innovative and incredibly useful.
Just wanted to add that, just think how convenient it would be for tournaments, thinks like the Artosis incident would never happen again in a tournament. Just make it an optional option for custom games to allow reconnects.
Of course if you want to still live in the 90s and love it when a player drops in a final and the game gets awarded to someone or replayed, either way a shit storm will happen every time.
|
On June 02 2010 20:29 Kexx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 20:17 Sadistx wrote:
Uuuh, to all the idiots laughing off the reconnect feature, I mean it's not like Blizzard couldn't implement a mandatory pause to give your opponent a chance to reconnect. If you people actually took 5 seconds to stop and think instead of regurgitating someone else's wrong opinions, you could see the feature is innovative and incredibly useful.
Just wanted to add that, just think how convenient it would be for tournaments, thinks like the Artosis incident would never happen again in a tournament. Just make it an optional option for custom games to allow reconnects. Of course if you want to still live in the 90s and love it when a player drops in a final and the game gets awarded to someone or replayed, either way a shit storm will happen every time.
Spot on, thanks for reminding us of the Artosis incident. Now if only Blizzard had cross-realm play...
*SIGH*
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2?
What are you smoking ?
´The powerful editor of SC2 alone will bring out games that beat HoN by miles and even more.
I like S2 as a company and played Savage 2, but the servers of S2 have always been beyond unplayable. There is no way that HoN will ever be as popular or competitive as dota was.
Once the first good dota version for sc2 comes out nobody will play HoN anymore.
|
On June 02 2010 20:34 TheDna wrote:
What are you smoking ?
´The powerful editor of SC2 alone will bring out games that beat HoN by miles and even more.
I like S2 as a company and played Savage 2, but the servers of S2 have always been beyond unplayable. There is no way that HoN will ever be as popular or competitive as dota was.
Once the first good dota version for sc2 comes out nobody will play HoN anymore.
Because the custom game mechanic in SC2 allows us to host custom DotA modes like -ap -ar ect.
oh wait a minute, I think it doesn't.
fact remains, HoNs system works right now, where as SC2 does not work at all right now.
|
On June 02 2010 20:34 TheDna wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? What are you smoking ? ´The powerful editor of SC2 alone will bring out games that beat HoN by miles and even more. I like S2 as a company and played Savage 2, but the servers of S2 have always been beyond unplayable. There is no way that HoN will ever be as popular or competitive as dota was. Once the first good dota version for sc2 comes out nobody will play HoN anymore.
hon is already very big in the competive scene, i never had big issues with their servers or any bugs during the whole beta time (which was pretty much open beta) and their editor is said to be pretty good too.
plus they have like ALL features the users requested and always were in direct contact with their customers answering questions wherever possible.
they did an awesome job which shows how easy it is to satisfy the basic needs of your fans when you care enough.
and then we have bnet2.0 which is worse in evry single aspect possible then a) their own product from 10 years ago and b) the product of a tiny company with like 1/1000 of their size
|
The two best things I think Blizzard can learn from the HoN-interface is:
- The replay system. HoNs replay system is the most awesome I've ever encountered. Every match is recorded and can be seen pretty much immediatly by anyone. Everything can be downloaded ingame aswell as on their site, and every match has a match ID that can easily be copied and saved or used to fetch a replay ingame.
- The ladder system. While I doubt it's ever possible to make a good ladder system in a game, HoN has made a good effort. With one ladder and only the rating comparing you to other players (it's ofcourse possible to check for other stats too), it's very easy to see how good people are. I don't know how easy it would be to implement this in SC2, but at the moment it feels like the only way you can see who's good is which league their in, and that's a rather big measurement compared to a four digit rating.
Having a one ladder system makes it incredibly easy to see who's the top player and how good you or your friends are compared to anyone else and it would be pretty cool to see that in SC2.
One of the biggest benefits of these two systems are the possibility to smoothly check who's the top player and then check out his replays for some awesome matches.
|
On June 02 2010 10:14 derpaderp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:11 Smikis wrote:On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod. you didnt take reading lessons did you? if you cant understand what op is saying , retrain yourself from posting and ill agree with op i took reading lessons, and i dont understand what op is saying. is S2 sc2? or a heart? or some sort of HoN reference?
So why exactly are you replying to things you do not understand?
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2?
I stopped playing Heroes of Newerth after the beta, because even though all the tools are in place, none of the functionality is there and they released an incomplete game.
Maybe when competitive league play comes I'll start playing again. Until then, every game in retail is just varying levels of me constantly yelling at retards on my team.
|
On June 02 2010 12:24 404.TooEz wrote:
Blizzard has nothing to learn lol, if anything they are the ones teaching everyone else on how to "MICROTRANSACTIONS" every possible feature. They could make any game pro if they actually tried on making good games and not profitable games. S2 is not in Blizzard's league, in fact I don't think any other company can compare itself to what blizzard is capable of doing, its simply a shame blizzard doesnt care anymore -- $$$$$$$$$$$$
Well put
Blizzard is trying to monetize Starcraft2 with BattleNet 2.0. Of course, only the positive impact on players is presented, and features that do not serve that purpose are shunned ("do you really need chat rooms?").
S2 are experienced with Savage 1 and 2. I have not seen the HoN interface, but their Savage pre-game lobbies are functional (although much too colourful, I hate seeing red/blue/yellow letters in the same page).
Battlenet 2.0 looks crisp and provides solid matchmaking. I am sold on that.
|
On June 02 2010 22:29 mlbrandow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? I stopped playing Heroes of Newerth after the beta, because even though all the tools are in place, none of the functionality is there and they released an incomplete game. Maybe when competitive league play comes I'll start playing again. Until then, every game in retail is just varying levels of me constantly yelling at retards on my team.
Also, a bit off topic, but I have never seen a more self-contradicting post before.
1. Tools are in place but the functionality is not there. What the hell does that even mean. Can't just go spouting such stuff without examples.
2. You stopped playing after beta, yet every game in retail is varying levels of you yelling at retards on your team (sucks to be on your team, but even more interesting is you not playing and yet somehow happening to be in a team).
|
I updated the first post with screenshots of HoN interface for those who haven't played the game.
One of the things I missed while writing on those pictures is the autoconnect feature. You see it just above the list of players in the chatroom, if you click that box you will autoconnect to the channel every time you log on.
|
I would also like to add that Follow does not require authentication from everyone involved in order to start a game. When you follow someone, you automatically join whatever game they have joined even if you are afk for 10 seconds while getting a drink. Bnet 2.0, on the other hand, demands that all players in the party accept in order to host a game lobby, and will not allow parties to join custom games which have team sizes smaller than the party. If you try to join a turret defense as a party, and that turret defense was made so that all 8 people are on separate teams, you cannot join that game. However, if they implemented Follow like in HoN, that problem would be alleviated.
My solution for Bnet 2.0 - Hire the guys from S2 to design the new Bnet, and scrap the current version.
|
Wow. I'm at amazement at how much more powerful and streamlined it looks. But I don't think blizzard is gonna implement anything like that - It has way too much useful information on the screen for an average console gamer to comprehend. Plus there's way too few empty space around taken up by bloated UI and that's just cries for a misclick if you're using controller instead of mouse.
Clearly, it was designed for a computer game unlike b.net 0.2
|
On June 03 2010 16:44 InRaged wrote:
Wow. I'm at amazement at how much more powerful and streamlined it looks. But I don't think blizzard is gonna implement anything like that - It has way too much useful information on the screen for an average console gamer to comprehend. Plus there's way too few empty space around taken up by bloated UI and that's just cries for a misclick if you're using controller instead of mouse.
Clearly, it was designed for a computer game unlike b.net 0.2
What? Since when are SC2, Diablo 3, or WoW console games?
The screenshots in the OP don't do the HoN interface justice.
The person complaing about savage servers is just... lol. They are a tiny company and didn't have the playerbase or money to spend on srevers. HoN servers have been quite reliable and more importantly, the latency is hardly noticeable. I live in Hawaii and I have had much better experiences with the USWest servers on HoN than the sc2 servers so far.
|
HoN is very decent when compared to B.net 2.0
First thing off, I can play with players from around the world, no problem! All in one client.
Match Making is fast and brutal.
Chat channels for all!
Buddy List and easy clans, sure have them?
In game voice chat that works perfectly since beta opened? have that too.
Almost all our complaints, except LAN, is done by S2 in HoN, and its offered for 30 dollars.
|
I've actually had this same thought, OP. I really praised the HoN interface for being very user friendly (save for a few easy to make adjustments, like not putting "leave clan" button under "view stats") and being able to reconnect to a game... oh my what a godsend this is for a game like HoN. Since Blizzard is so keen on hosting all of our battle.net games, that would be an incredibly nice feature to have. I don't know what kind of system requirements or coding is required on Blizzard's end to implement that, but damn think of how much it would help.
Especially in important tournaments. Imagine if one player disconnects when the outcome isn't certain. The observers can pause and allow for the player to rejoin, and all the issues of having to regame are dealt with forever. Will players be kind enough to pause in 1v1 ladder games? Probably not. But i bet it can still happen in UMS games (like a SC2 DotA clone lol).
But yes OP, I wish Blizzard would take some advice from S2's production team and make an interface similar to HoN's. I thought it was immensely easier to use and nicer than Bnet 2.0
|
United States758 Posts
Group chat might end up being very similar to channels.
I also feel confident that the custom map menu will change.
HoN definitely looks amazing though 
|
On June 03 2010 16:53 fnaticAugury wrote:Group chat might end up being very similar to channels. I also feel confident that the custom map menu will change. HoN definitely looks amazing though
I really hope so, I hope they fix all the problems, but honestly most of these features in the HoN interface were there from the start of closed beta while Bnet is lagging behind dramatically.
|
On June 03 2010 16:47 Butigroove wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 16:44 InRaged wrote:
Wow. I'm at amazement at how much more powerful and streamlined it looks. But I don't think blizzard is gonna implement anything like that - It has way too much useful information on the screen for an average console gamer to comprehend. Plus there's way too few empty space around taken up by bloated UI and that's just cries for a misclick if you're using controller instead of mouse.
Clearly, it was designed for a computer game unlike b.net 0.2 What? Since when are SC2, Diablo 3, or WoW console games? The screenshots in the OP don't do the HoN interface justice. The person complaing about savage servers is just... lol. They are a tiny company and didn't have the playerbase or money to spend on srevers. HoN servers have been quite reliable and more importantly, the latency is hardly noticeable. I live in Hawaii and I have had much better experiences with the USWest servers on HoN than the sc2 servers so far.
Dude, I think your sarcasm meter is broken. But having played HoN, it's got an excellent and powerful interface that's designed to be newbie friendly because it's intuitive, and geared to the competitive gamer; it has all these bells and whistles that people like to drool over hidden beneath the basic set-up. Sure, you can play w/out minding your PSR and whatnot, but the OC progamers can dig deep into your profile, see your play-style, reliability and whatnot.
|
Why is OP starting to sound more and more like a viral marketer for HoN ? Well, it's not a bad game at all, though personally I prefer League of Legends as a Dota successor.
And I'm pretty sure the problem is less that that Blizzard cannot implement such features as was done in HoN, but more that they simply choose not to. Hopefully, the recent upheavals here and in the battle.net forums will let them think twice of where they want to be, at least in the long term.
|
On June 03 2010 17:02 Alphaes wrote:Why is OP starting to sound more and more like a viral marketer for HoN ? Well, it's not a bad game at all, though personally I prefer League of Legends as a Dota successor. And I'm pretty sure the problem is less that that Blizzard cannot implement such features as was done in HoN, but more that they simply choose not to. Hopefully, the recent upheavals here and in the battle.net forums will let them think twice of where they want to be, at least in the long term.
Yeah I actually own S2 thats the real motivation behind this post
Anyway as far as interface is concerned, LoL is lightyears behind HoN (I really can't believe they chose adobe air as their platform... seriously...) and I won't derail this thread by going into gameplay arguments.
But honestly I find it disturbing a company of Blizzards stature is getting outdone by S2 (at least from a functionality standpoint). Seriously, S2... what are they known for beside Savage? And did anyone even play that game? I sure didn't.
Also, the picture below is both an example of chat channels being tastefully done as well as a reason why I now loathe this thread.
![[image loading]](http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/wtfditched.gif)
|
OP is saying that blizzard should copy S2's social UI, which is an amazing idea since HoN's UI is leaps and bounds ahead of bnet2.0 yet took (judging from S2's low resources) less time and money to develop. Why is a company with such extensive resources falling behind in regards to a company with minimal resources, companies don't just "get lazy"... Someone needs to interview blizzard and be like ask why they are trying to market such an inferior system while blatantly lying and saying it is superior.
|
Christ testie has sick stats in HoN
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular competitive game. Nothing groundbreaking was changed except the addition and removal of some content. HoN : DOTA is the same as SC2 : SCBW, yet somehow Battle.net 2.0 is being met with hostility while the HoN interface has given players everything they've ever asked for. Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0 Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? Here are screenshots showing the Heroes of Newerth interface http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN1-1.gifhttp://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN2-1.gifhttp://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc258/positronstar/HoN3.gifI would also like to add that HoN is already released, was in beta for months, and the interface has undergone several major changes during that time. However, chat channels, "cross realm play" (there are no real realms in HoN), and custom game creation has been there from day 1.
HoN wasnt only in beta for "many months", it was in beta for like a year. I was in the HoN beta back in like May or June of LAST YEAR, as a friend had invited me to join. I dont know when the beta actually started, but yea... at least a year of beta. If you want, they can delay SC2 until around march of next year... but I kinda want to play the retail version.
I agree that the current iteration of bnet 2.0 is horrendous, but I am hoping they can get some key features in by release (chat and cross-region play).
|
On June 02 2010 10:57 RyanS wrote:
You said HoN is a mirror of SC2. When you look in a mirror you see yourself exactly how you are. This makes no sense to me.
FFS mirror is a bad word, sure. What he is saying is "HoN is to DotA as SC2 is to SC:BW". It's an analogy.
|
he is saying that hon=dota and sc2=sc:bw in the way they are so similar. however i think the comparison is mainly in regards to networking platform of it. i think he means that because all HoN did is improve Dota. this is what they should do with sc2.
thats what i believe he meant to say.
|
On June 02 2010 10:14 susySquark wrote:
HoN - no LAN.
but it has chat channels!
Do you really need chat channels?
However S2 really does not need nothing too complicated..it just need chat channels and then it would be perfect
(i would like also not having bug every patch but...oh well..we can't have everything right?)
|
Simply put, S2 is still at the phase where they're trying to make a name for themselves and therefore have to be "nice" to their playerbase, add features and be generally positive in every regard.
Blizzard has gotten large enough that they've decided to just live on their past reputation, remove whatever doesn't maximize money and shit on the SC community just because they can afford to. Typically the point where a company starts stifling innovation and freedom for its customers rather than promoting it, and where they start being a negative influence on whatever markets are theirs.
|
On June 03 2010 19:52 shlomo wrote:
Simply put, S2 is still at the phase where they're trying to make a name for themselves and therefore have to be "nice" to their playerbase, add features and be generally positive in every regard.
Blizzard has gotten large enough that they've decided to just live on their past reputation, remove whatever doesn't maximize money and shit on the SC community just because they can afford to. Typically the point where a company starts stifling innovation and freedom for its customers rather than promoting it, and where they start being a negative influence on whatever markets are theirs.
This.
Companies have a life cycle, and some will never reach the size of Blizzard, they will fail earlier.
Size prevents new management challenges for companies; they need to standardize stuff, reuse stuff etc just to stay competitive (as in, being profitable enough to attract investment). This means cutting the less profitable features of products or entire product lines.
Sure, while the original company creators have a big say in the company, they will continue with their initial vision. However, there is only so much momentum a person can generate during his/her professional life. After a while they start caring about other things. So they sell their shares and then the company focus shifts, because external stakeholders care about their financial investment, not the company vision (99% cases, just to be safe).
|
HoN interface >>>>>>>>>> Bnet 2.0
Completely agree with OP
|
Yah HoN has the better system right now. But I refuse to believe Bnet2.0 will actually remain in it's current state...I refuse...
|
On June 02 2010 20:24 MaD.pYrO wrote:
Well, HoN is basically just Dota in better graphics, so they didn't have much conceptual work to do, it was basically just mechanical improvements, which players are praising since the DotA platform (before iCCup Dota imo) was pretty much terrible.
So of course they SHOULD have improved plenty, because that's all the work they did, was just copying and improving. Starcraft 2 is not Starcraft 3D, it's an entirely new game, so if they didn't have the new interface features and better networking, what would they have? A DotA clone, end of story.
If you wanna play DotA, just play DotA, why are these shiny remakes necessary?
Mmhuh, wanna bet on that blizz has more people working on b.net than S2 has people working, period?
|
|
|
They don't have anything to learn, they can already do better and I'm certain any of the designers at Blizzard who still put their heart and soul into their work understand what's going on here. It's not a lack of know-how, it's a lack of wanting to, imposed by executives.
But that's sacrificing Blizzard's image and reputation, especially when it comes to the legendary still-bestselling Starcraft, for short term profits.
Is it really a good bargain? I don't think so.
|
Wow, HoN's interface is enviable.
|
On June 02 2010 19:57 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect. oh and it has chat channels ^^ lolz, imagine reconnecting to a game after 5 minutes in starcraft2. yeah, like that is going to accomplish something unless you destroyed the opponent's whole army and base, he cannot make any units and while you destory everything you disconnect before his last building gets killed. in this case it's worth it, but really just in 2vs2 , 3vs3 , 4vs4 when the other players take control of your dorces, then it is useful to be able to reconnect.
It wouldn't be that hard to make the game automatically pause as soon as one of both players in a 1on1 drops I guess...
|
HoN does have a really nice, well thought out interface. Wouldn't mind seeing some of the stuff there copied into bnet 2.0.
|
Just wanted to say that HoN has the best Support Staff I've ever seen. If you take a look at the forums, they're actively taking part in the community and dealing with the popular issues.
And from what I've briefly seen, they even have a hon esports-esqe website dedicated to tournaments and such. They're really pushing this game with the community in mind.
Blizzard could really learn a thing or two from these guys, not just in terms of product features, but also their attitude to their customers.
|
On June 02 2010 19:57 MindRush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect. oh and it has chat channels ^^ lolz, imagine reconnecting to a game after 5 minutes in starcraft2. yeah, like that is going to accomplish something unless you destroyed the opponent's whole army and base, he cannot make any units and while you destory everything you disconnect before his last building gets killed. in this case it's worth it, but really just in 2vs2 , 3vs3 , 4vs4 when the other players take control of your dorces, then it is useful to be able to reconnect.
Maybe in ladder games... but what about tournaments where you have referees to pause the game and wait couple of minutes so you can return before giving you default loss? Yea, that would be so lol and useless too!!! I dont care if bnet has everything so awesome, i still want my choice... choice to lan, choice to play with people in another region, choice to chat in bnet instead of irc and choice to pause and wait for people to reconnect... sure it wont have any effect in 90% of games... but if there is technology to please 100%, why not do it? why make decisions for your fans and customers?
Or what that guy above said... auto pause when people drop, and they have some timer for how long they can be dced... like 2 times with total of 5 mins combined! if you dc 3 times, default loss, if you are dced for more than 5 mins default loss... if you come back, you could make it count down from 5-10 sec before unpause or popup where both players click ready and then it counts down... im sure people wouldnt mind that
|
I haven't played HoN in a long time, but judging from those screenshots it looks like the interface has been cleaned up quite a bit. Battlenet 2.0 really needs an overhaul, not only is it lacking in very critical features but it is not easy to navigate. For example, your match history is not part of your profile anymore, it's an extra click away.
Blizzard seems too caught up in making something "new" and "revolutionary". They forgot to copy all of the basic features from other online services, instead throwing together a mess of wanted and unwanted new features with no groundwork to support it.
|
Reconnect features are very good for custom and tournament games. Custom games generally aren't as unforgiving as ladder, and tournament games are good for reconnect because you have tournament managers who observe the game and can pause it it something were to happen to one of the players' connections. Either way, it's a very nice feature to have and SC2 would easily benefit from it.
|
S2 games is a fantastic game developer that takes its fans really seriously unlike blizzard. The Heroes of Newerth beta was a fantastic gaming experience unlike the SC2 one.
But yes, OP has a point. The HoN "Battle.net" is far superior to SC2 one. It will be VERY intresting to see what S2-games makes with its map editor and if they will have Server side support for them. If they put in server side support for custom games with a good modding community it may very well be so that HoN takes over the "mini-game" role of War3 and SC2 (which i indeed hope since im not buying SC2, but probably will buy HoN when the game has matured a bit).
In fact, for HoN i would say that they have pretty much succeeded with the Blizzard mantra; "your online expierence will be so good that you dont want LAN". Blizzard B-Net 2.0 is actually so bad that you scream for LAN.
|
On June 04 2010 01:04 SyyRaaaN wrote:
In fact, for HoN i would say that they have pretty much succeeded with the Blizzard mantra; "your online expierence will be so good that you dont want LAN". Blizzard B-Net 2.0 is actually so bad that you scream for LAN.
Haha, so true and so sad
|
S2 did a good job on their game from the looks of it, but it is easy to recreate what previous games had in the past.
Blizzard is trying to do something new with a possible gaming platform(Remember we are testing the beta to a new platform not just a game) that could be turned around into something awesome. Who knows battle.net 2.0 could flop or it could be changed and everyone will forget the fiasco over the beta of a new platform. It is hard to tell how little or how much more work Blizzard will put into it.
By platform I mean everygame they make from now on will be integrated into it.
|
i've been saying this since I experienced bnet 2.0, HoN's attempt has far better tracking statistics, more stability, and better implementation of "customs".. despite coming from a tiny company, instead of blizzard with all their WoW income.
|
United States7166 Posts
theyre getting ready to release the game soon. it's too late for bnet 2.0 to get overhauled or updated, but perhaps in some amazing patch later we will get a few hon-like features in our bnet 2.0
|
Unfortunately this looks much better than what bnet 2.0 (aka 0.5) ever will be.
|
i've been waiting for someone to make this comparison.
S2 is what Blizzard was.
SC2 is not made by what Blizzard was; rather,
SC2 was made by the last vestige of Blizzard but Activllizard operates the game via d-bags in suits from board meetings.
People should know that all gaming companies have two main branches:
1. Development: programmers, designers, artists, etc
2. Operations: marketing, sales, finance, d-bags in suits who smile and shake a lot of hands, etc.
this is why we must rage. because (1) came up with a decent game only to have it ruined by the hubris of (2).
|
On June 02 2010 10:14 derpaderp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:11 Smikis wrote:On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod. you didnt take reading lessons did you? if you cant understand what op is saying , retrain yourself from posting and ill agree with op i took reading lessons, and i dont understand what op is saying. is S2 sc2? or a heart? or some sort of HoN reference?
S2 is the developer for HoN.
|
Man...
The only problem I have with Blizzard's decision is the stupid logic behind not being able to play with other players. There is no excuse for it. We've been doing it for a while as Starcraft players, and they should make it a choice. Matchmaking by either your region or globally. Of course, only match two players who choose global, so someone who doesn't want to deal with the lag doesn't get mixed by a player who wants global matches.
And have a global and regional ELO.
It's a bit more to add of course. But I don't see the problem. Or just let users go to other servers (but then that means we won't buy the game more than once).
And I agree there needs to be chat channels or something of the sort for tournament reasons. For communication purposes otherwise, I say they're unnecessary. Hopefully, though, their proposed implementation of group or clan channels will address these issues that they're too stubborn to fix. Even though I don't agree that chat channels are needed, I feel I don't even have a good reason to argue against them.
Otherwise, I love Battle.net 2.0. I love the interface, I love the functionality that it already has. But I'll concede that part of the reason is that I haven't been in a tourney yet and I'm not a map maker, so I haven't been inconvenienced yet.
|
HoN is a game from the future, because the all knowingly blue poster said that the technology just isn't there yet.
The freaking aliens who made HoN need to turn it off until the technology is there, because its destroying the space time continuum.
I literally laughed out loud when I read that blue post, what an idiot.
|
On June 02 2010 10:11 Smikis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:04 Tump wrote:
Not sure if this is some kind of troll/flame post, but hell fucking no.
Starcraft 2 is a new game, Brood War already exists and has tournament capability (HELLO BIGGEST ESPORT OF ALL TIME).
Also Brood War doesn't exist with updated UI, graphics, or engine. All the "features" (mutalisk stack/micro, moving shot, less than smart AI, different pathing, etc etc etc) would be destroyed.
If you want to play Brood War on an updated engine, just wait until SC2 comes out and all the units are available to make a mod. you didnt take reading lessons did you? if you cant understand what op is saying , retrain yourself from posting and ill agree with op
the guys an idiot >.<
|
Just to play devil's advocate. S2's primary aim was to draw players away from dota and into HoN.
Blizzard seem to be targetting the casual gamer market(facebook, achievements etc) aswell as the hardcores, which, assuming they implement the hardcore gamers requested features, will be an important step in creating a successful e-sport.
Although I love HoN it is sadly destined to fail because of the awful dota community which has ruined the small pool of new players.
S2, however, are amazing developers who listen to the community and I hope they do make enough money to have made the project worthwhile.
|
i dont know if any of you guys participated in the HoN closed beta. but it was so awesome how s2 was interacting with their beta testers.
how they explained what they were working on.
how they acknoledged problems that the community was bugging about and being sorry for not being able to fix them at that time.
how they explained why they changed certain things
how they even thanked specific persons for coming up with great ideas
they even had a platform on which you could post bugs to the dev team.
it would be unthinkable to introduce a facebook implementation while taking away the only crippled feature you had for making online friends without droppin one single word of explanation.
reading the battlenet forums and participating it makes me feel like blizz sits on their high horses and laughs at the common people. sometimes they drop a comment but it usually just says "yeah we dont answer to you because you dont ask politely enough".
good old times 
|
HoN interface is nice. I like battlenet2.0's interface aswell. The match making doesn't seem bad so far. At least for me. Sure HoN has chat channels but honestly I couldn't care less about them, I use other means to chat with people I game with. I believe we'll see chat channels in the future for bnet2.0, we've still got 2 more expansions to go.
Cool game however probably the worst community I've ever witnessed throughout my entire gaming "career" it's really bottom of the barrel bad mannered 4chan kids. It's like the garbage can of online gaming.
|
On June 02 2010 20:06 Lachrymose wrote:
the funniest part of this thread and all the misunderstandings in it is hon is actually a crappy version of dota gameplay wise. it is just glossed over by a bunch of usability and features that arent even necesary once you reach a decent level of play.
make a subpar product, make it really shiney and pretty, corner the baddie market.
does sound like bnet2 afterall.
uhm, i guess that's why chu played so many games.. and why all the good na dota players went to hon (afaik?)
so much hate for HoN, but it's irrelevant: chat channels, better friends system, better "custom" system, better stat tracking, universal league rankings, AND an interface that fosters competitive play.. why not just admit that the ui is better;
|
On June 04 2010 02:06 btlyger wrote:
HoN is a game from the future, because the all knowingly blue poster said that the technology just isn't there yet.
The freaking aliens who made HoN need to turn it off until the technology is there, because its destroying the space time continuum.
I literally laughed out loud when I read that blue post, what an idiot.
Blizzard guys have no problem spewing complete BS to cover up their failures.
No chat channels: You won't need them because the matchmaking system is so awesome you'll never need to communicate with other people.
No LAN: Online will be so good you'll never need to play @ 0 latency with your friends.
The ladder is kind of lame: The ladder is good.
No cross realm: We live in 1990 and broadband doesn't exist (in this specific game)
|
On June 04 2010 02:06 btlyger wrote:
HoN is a game from the future, because the all knowingly blue poster said that the technology just isn't there yet.
The freaking aliens who made HoN need to turn it off until the technology is there, because its destroying the space time continuum.
I like this HoN sci-fi business.
|
It's always amazed me how good quality everything that comes out of S2 is considering how small of a company they are. And when you compare that to Bnet 2.0 from Blizzard, it's even more shocking how bad bnet is. Chat channels, reconnect (for tournaments and friendlies), clans, no region locking, etc. Come on Blizzard, you're getting completely shown up by a tiny group of developers.
|
On June 04 2010 02:10 jabbalegs wrote:
Just to play devil's advocate. S2's primary aim was to draw players away from dota and into HoN.
Blizzard seem to be targetting the casual gamer market(facebook, achievements etc) aswell as the hardcores, which, assuming they implement the hardcore gamers requested features, will be an important step in creating a successful e-sport.
Although I love HoN it is sadly destined to fail because of the awful dota community which has ruined the small pool of new players.
S2, however, are amazing developers who listen to the community and I hope they do make enough money to have made the project worthwhile.
The problem is Blizzard doesn't need to do anything to cater to casuals. Almost everyone I know has enjoyed playing sc1 at some point and most were looking forward to sc2. They're Blizzard. They're already really popular.
|
This is why analogies are bad. People would rather argue the analogy then the point you were trying to make.
B.net 2.0 sucks. Nothing new about that. I agree with the OP HoN has some cool looking features Blizzard could steal.
|
On June 04 2010 01:07 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 01:04 SyyRaaaN wrote:
In fact, for HoN i would say that they have pretty much succeeded with the Blizzard mantra; "your online expierence will be so good that you dont want LAN". Blizzard B-Net 2.0 is actually so bad that you scream for LAN. Haha, so true and so sad
Actually, totally this. When I first opened HoN I was like "wtf no single player or lan" but really there is 100% no need.
|
Blizzard is really just trying to prove you can adapt the marketing schemes of mmos (microtransactions, subscription model in some countries) to a RTS. My guess is they were told "no, you're not making Sc2 unless you somehow make it as profitable as ........" (probably an actual Bobby Kotick quote)
And so we got Bnet 2.0
Problem is that while it could indeed sell very well (people will initially buy just because it has Blizzard's name on it), I really don't think such a model will pay off in the long run, because RTS is a niche to begin with and because they are going to be killing their own reputation with these cheap moves.
|
On June 04 2010 02:14 torfteufel wrote:i dont know if any of you guys participated in the HoN closed beta. but it was so awesome how s2 was interacting with their beta testers. how they explained what they were working on. how they acknoledged problems that the community was bugging about and being sorry for not being able to fix them at that time. how they explained why they changed certain things how they even thanked specific persons for coming up with great ideas they even had a platform on which you could post bugs to the dev team. it would be unthinkable to introduce a facebook implementation while taking away the only crippled feature you had for making online friends without droppin one single word of explanation. reading the battlenet forums and participating it makes me feel like blizz sits on their high horses and laughs at the common people. sometimes they drop a comment but it usually just says "yeah we dont answer to you because you dont ask politely enough". good old times
Heh yeah I brought up this subject in another thread. It's nice to see people agreeing that HoN is a good example of how it should be done, I agree.
Really, something as basic as a chatroom is, as far as I can tell, the beginner's introduction to network programming. Most students start off writing a miniature IRC clone after a "hello world" packet. To see Blizzard not implementing this seems like a 100% business decision.
And a sad one at that too.
|
I agree, S2 really blew Blizzard out of the water comparing HoN's beta to SC2's. I really thought SC2 would have the best online interface and it would be amazing.. but HoN showed that Blizzard is not that all-knowing developer that we once thought.
|
On June 04 2010 02:37 Rokk wrote:
It's always amazed me how good quality everything that comes out of S2 is considering how small of a company they are. And when you compare that to Bnet 2.0 from Blizzard, it's even more shocking how bad bnet is. Chat channels, reconnect (for tournaments and friendlies), clans, no region locking, etc. Come on Blizzard, you're getting completely shown up by a tiny group of developers.
"Shown up"? That phrase doesn't even begin to describe how much better the HoN online service is than the new Bnet. It's like seeing a super heavyweight boxer get knocked out in one hit by a scrawny nerd, only this time it's not match-fixing, it's real.
|
On June 04 2010 02:57 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 01:07 shlomo wrote:On June 04 2010 01:04 SyyRaaaN wrote:
In fact, for HoN i would say that they have pretty much succeeded with the Blizzard mantra; "your online expierence will be so good that you dont want LAN". Blizzard B-Net 2.0 is actually so bad that you scream for LAN. Haha, so true and so sad Actually, totally this. When I first opened HoN I was like "wtf no single player or lan" but really there is 100% no need.
The matchmaking system is good. The channels work. Clan groups work. The friend overlay is simple and elegant. Reconnection feature works. There's very little lag on good days ( would be better all of the time, but whatever ). The company provides good new content. They interact with their playerbase and respond to issues.
Complete opposite of Bnet 2.0.
|
On June 04 2010 02:52 Spidermonkey wrote:
B.net 2.0 sucks. Nothing new about that. I agree with the OP HoN has some cool looking features Blizzard could steal.
It's funny, look at how Blizzard has always been in the past. Try to put aside fanboyism just for a moment. Blizzard has always been extremely good at "stealing" good ideas, lol... or, to put it another way, Blizzard has always been able to look at other games in the marketplace, examine them, see what works and what doesn't and build their games around that principle. Blizzard didn't invent the RTS, they pretty much stole the template for Warcraft direct from Westwood, but they did a hell of a lot better at it. They didn't invent the action RPG but they sure as hell streamlined it. They didn't invent the MMO but they certainly figured out how to make what was previously kind of a niche genre appeal to the mainstream.
Blizzard, traditionally, has always embraced the "if it ain't broke..." way of designing. With Bnet it suddenly feels like they are trying to reinvent the wheel rather than carefully examining what is good and bad about other online services out there (including Bnet 1.0) and crafting it accordingly.
|
:O
This thread took me by surprise.
|
I posted this on the official bnet forum, got a bunch of random replies like "HoN doesn't have as large a fanbase as SC2 so they can't afford to regionalize it" or "The fact that custom game list is used more than automatchmaking means the ladder is a total fail"... that'll teach me for trying to introduce logic into that forum.
|
S2 is the company that makes HoN isn't it?
|
On June 02 2010 11:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
ya, the neatest thing I'd say HoN has is a feature that allows a player to reconnect to a game within 5 minutes of them disconnecting, whenever they disconnect.
oh and it has chat channels ^^ It's been stated that reconnect features are not practical in a 1v1 game, or a game that changes as quickly as SC/SC2. Disconnecting and reconnecting in a minute in HoN results in a game where you can reasonably come back from your slight disadvantage. A minute where you're macroing in SC2 and your opponent isn't can result in an insurmountable advantage. And it isn't fair to make your opponent sit in a paused game on the off-chance that his opponent *might* reconnect.
In 1v1 yes, but there are many other modes in this game like 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 and UMS, all those would greatly benefit if there was an option to allow reconnects.
|
Wow i couldn't stand reading after the first 5 posts. You people really need to learn how to READ. The OP was quite clear...
|
I am pretty sure S2 is the next blizzard/valve. I can't imagine them not listening to their community and doing things right in the future. Maliken has blown way too much money trying to make his dream of producing games not to continue to be successful.
|
I absolutely love HoN and S2 and I love having buttsecks with them on a daily basis, but at the same time you do have to realize that their whole job for the main part was to design an interface that beat DotA's. They were remaking DotA except for a few heroes, the balance items/heroes/map was all done for them. So really their main work was getting servers working, and designing an excellent interface which they did. Not to take any credit from them, but they had the actual game play already done for them. Blizzard is a big enough and rich enough company to be able to do what they did, but I'm just doing my 2c.
|
On June 04 2010 08:22 Idejder wrote:
:O
This thread took me by surprise.
if you are the real one you deserv a little <3
keep up the awsome work
|
On June 04 2010 08:22 Idejder wrote:
:O
This thread took me by surprise.
Well, at least it's all positive  .
|
On June 04 2010 09:36 BDF92 wrote:
I absolutely love HoN and S2 and I love having buttsecks with them on a daily basis, but at the same time you do have to realize that their whole job for the main part was to design an interface that beat DotA's. They were remaking DotA except for a few heroes, the balance items/heroes/map was all done for them. So really their main work was getting servers working, and designing an excellent interface which they did. Not to take any credit from them, but they had the actual game play already done for them. Blizzard is a big enough and rich enough company to be able to do what they did, but I'm just doing my 2c.
And SC2 is a completely original game? The SCBW pros did so much work for blizzard by furthering the metagame and apart from a few new units and removal of old units SC2 is exactly the same as SC1 with better graphics and different balancing.
|
On June 04 2010 11:15 positronix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:36 BDF92 wrote:
I absolutely love HoN and S2 and I love having buttsecks with them on a daily basis, but at the same time you do have to realize that their whole job for the main part was to design an interface that beat DotA's. They were remaking DotA except for a few heroes, the balance items/heroes/map was all done for them. So really their main work was getting servers working, and designing an excellent interface which they did. Not to take any credit from them, but they had the actual game play already done for them. Blizzard is a big enough and rich enough company to be able to do what they did, but I'm just doing my 2c. And SC2 is a completely original game? The SCBW pros did so much work for blizzard by furthering the metagame and apart from a few new units and removal of old units SC2 is exactly the same as SC1 with better graphics and different balancing.
I'm sorry, but by your logic, every RTS is the same as every RTS. SC2 is a different game from SC:BW. The macro mechanics for the races, the unique characteristics of each race, are significantly different from SC:BW. Heck, most people on the forums are complaining that SC2 isn't SC:BW.
|
League of legends had a pretty sweet interface also, and it's in it's preseason.
|
Why HoN is successful is because it was made by a community of gamers, for gamers. HoN interface and game play is great! I agree with the OP, listing to community is always a good idea.
|
On June 04 2010 11:22 Fraud wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:15 positronix wrote:On June 04 2010 09:36 BDF92 wrote:
I absolutely love HoN and S2 and I love having buttsecks with them on a daily basis, but at the same time you do have to realize that their whole job for the main part was to design an interface that beat DotA's. They were remaking DotA except for a few heroes, the balance items/heroes/map was all done for them. So really their main work was getting servers working, and designing an excellent interface which they did. Not to take any credit from them, but they had the actual game play already done for them. Blizzard is a big enough and rich enough company to be able to do what they did, but I'm just doing my 2c. And SC2 is a completely original game? The SCBW pros did so much work for blizzard by furthering the metagame and apart from a few new units and removal of old units SC2 is exactly the same as SC1 with better graphics and different balancing. I'm sorry, but by your logic, every RTS is the same as every RTS. SC2 is a different game from SC:BW. The macro mechanics for the races, the unique characteristics of each race, are significantly different from SC:BW. Heck, most people on the forums are complaining that SC2 isn't SC:BW.
Compare Dawn of War with Starcraft: Brood War, then compare Starcraft 2 with Starcraft: Brood War.
Compare C&C Red Alert 3 with SCBW, then SCBW and SC2. There was very little change from BW to SC2.
|
On June 02 2010 23:04 gedassan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 22:29 mlbrandow wrote:On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. It's the second iteration of a wildly popular game which is a complete copy of DOTA. Nothing was changed except the addition of content which wasn't really gamechanging.
Oh, and the entire interface was upgraded with every feature the DOTA community was demanding.
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) that you just want to weep when you go from that kind of environment back to bnet 2.0
Anyone else think Blizzard should just copy S2? I stopped playing Heroes of Newerth after the beta, because even though all the tools are in place, none of the functionality is there and they released an incomplete game. Maybe when competitive league play comes I'll start playing again. Until then, every game in retail is just varying levels of me constantly yelling at retards on my team. Also, a bit off topic, but I have never seen a more self-contradicting post before. 1. Tools are in place but the functionality is not there. What the hell does that even mean. Can't just go spouting such stuff without examples. 2. You stopped playing after beta, yet every game in retail is varying levels of you yelling at retards on your team (sucks to be on your team, but even more interesting is you not playing and yet somehow happening to be in a team).
Slow down captain hyperbole!
If you had played HoN then this is not at all a self-contradicting post, but it doesn't seem like you have, and so I can see how it would seem that way.
Once the game came out, rather than wipe the PSRs or leave them where they were for players, they basically reset everything. But whereas SC2 is a 1v1, or 2v2 game in most cases, HoN is a 5v5 game, yet it is JUST as sensitive to 1 bad player. When the game came out, they normalized all the PSRs so that all the different tiered players played in the same games. This wouldn't be so bad except that whichever team has the biggest noob loses way more easily than whichever team has the best player can win. This means you're losing full stats for games you have very limited control over.
As far as team/league play, there are all the tools in place for league play, but none of the functionality. This means that the buttons are there, the stat columns are there, everything is in place. But all you can do is look at it, not utilize any of it. They are just ideas basically right now. Until league play comes out, all you can really do is pub with random players, or join the scrim channel and pub with other random players, or stack pub games with your friends.
Unlike how you can have a team rating system with SC2, all you can do is play random games, and even if you have 4 of your best friends with you, it's difficult to find another game with 5 set players (not like in SC2 where you just hit the button and it finds you players of comparable skills).
The game itself is great, and the gameplay would be awesome if they cloned SC2's league/ladder system, but as it stands now, it's just an awful grievous experience for most advanced players who don't play with set guys (which is almost everyone). I don't speak for everyone who plays HoN, but it seems like very many of the better players got fed up and took sabatical on the game until the competitive play that was promised eons ago is actually implemented.
Hope this clears things up.
|
On June 04 2010 11:33 positronix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:22 Fraud wrote:On June 04 2010 11:15 positronix wrote:On June 04 2010 09:36 BDF92 wrote:
I absolutely love HoN and S2 and I love having buttsecks with them on a daily basis, but at the same time you do have to realize that their whole job for the main part was to design an interface that beat DotA's. They were remaking DotA except for a few heroes, the balance items/heroes/map was all done for them. So really their main work was getting servers working, and designing an excellent interface which they did. Not to take any credit from them, but they had the actual game play already done for them. Blizzard is a big enough and rich enough company to be able to do what they did, but I'm just doing my 2c. And SC2 is a completely original game? The SCBW pros did so much work for blizzard by furthering the metagame and apart from a few new units and removal of old units SC2 is exactly the same as SC1 with better graphics and different balancing. I'm sorry, but by your logic, every RTS is the same as every RTS. SC2 is a different game from SC:BW. The macro mechanics for the races, the unique characteristics of each race, are significantly different from SC:BW. Heck, most people on the forums are complaining that SC2 isn't SC:BW. Compare Dawn of War with Starcraft: Brood War, then compare Starcraft 2 with Starcraft: Brood War. Compare C&C Red Alert 3 with SCBW, then SCBW and SC2. There was very little change from BW to SC2.
Doesn't matter anyways. It's not like S2 just copy pasted Dota into a new engine, they still had to code everything - same goes for blizzard. Both were also able to skip some of the creative work.
About battlenet... I don't care much about chat channels. I'm usually in a vent server and talking there or writing via some external chat program. Ladder.. works well, but it doesn't feel really competetive. Dunno, but with 1231204 divisions for every league I can't really say how good I am with my rank 37 in diamond or something.
But the custom game menu is a joke. I mean, come on, that really really really is bad for a 2010 game. WC3 Bnet beats that by a mile and HoN even more so. I seriously hope they are going to change something there - considering how freaking powerful the map editor is they shouldn't put in such a subpar interface for games created with it.
|
On June 04 2010 08:22 Idejder wrote:
:O
This thread took me by surprise.
For some reason I doubt you're the real Idejder, but if you are, get back to the HoN forums!
|
so many dumbasses who cant read in this thread. its unfucking believable
|
HoN did a great job for such a small company. I give them kudos
|
Seriously, the HoN interface is so conducive to both tournament and casual play (even if the game itself isn't for casuals) lol
|
On June 04 2010 11:56 Backpack wrote:For some reason I doubt you're the real Idejder, but if you are, get back to the HoN forums!
I am the dev Idejder yes. And I like the TL forums.
|
Hon hosts their game, SC2 does not host it's own game it's connects everyone to the server and the server decides who has the best set up to host and goes from there.
Hon's cross-realm is not the same as b.net regons.
You all connects to one hon server that delivers chat etc. When you request a game you can choose which and were the game hosting server(separate from the chat and crap hosting server you're always connected to) you would like to use, or have it done automatically.
In other words the big advantages of hon, is that it's server side now you can try to convince blizzard to host their own game good luck with that yo.
|
On June 04 2010 14:47 semantics wrote:
Hon hosts their game, SC2 does not host it's own game it's connects everyone to the server and the server decides who has the best set up to host and goes from there.
Hon's cross-realm is not the same as b.net regons.
You all connects to one hon server that delivers chat etc. When you request a game you can choose which and were the game hosting server(separate from the chat and crap hosting server you're always connected to) you would like to use, or have it done automatically.
In other words the big advantages of hon, is that it's server side now you can try to convince blizzard to host their own game good luck with that yo.
So blizzard has all the flaws of a server-side game system without the benefits? If the blizzard server determines who has the best connection and uses a user computer to host, whats the difference between the current setup and one in which you see a user hosted game (like WC3) w/ title in a list? The only difference I understand from your post is that the host is now decided by blizzard. Why can't bnet allow players to go through different gateways or even to list hosted maps by region like HoN? This isn't dependent on server-side hosting because you can flag individual users by their country and transfer this info to the map hosting list.
|
This thread is bad >.<. There's no point in making a point that is inherently contradictory, Yes, I play HoN.
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2.
Stopped reading right there. The very first sentence is completely ridiculous.
|
On June 04 2010 17:25 xinxy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. Stopped reading right there.
Good for you! You wouldn't be able to comprehend the rest anyway~
|
On June 04 2010 17:25 xinxy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
Heroes of Newerth - basically a mirror of Starcraft 2. Stopped reading right there. The very first sentence is completely ridiculous.
I will explain for you so that you might understand. I'll even throw up some of my own comparisons.
Heroes of Newerth: new game, new version of DotA
Starcraft 2: new game, new version of Starcraft
THAT is what the OP means by "mirror" - they are the DotA and SC 2.0 versions.
Now, lets look at what we have to compare!
HoN: Some old heroes, some new heroes, same type of game.
SC2: Some old units, some new units, same type of game.
Even so far!
HoN: Vastly improved in game interface, S2games pulls no punches when it comes to improving the interface
SC2: Improved interface. Blizzard holds back on improving the interface too much.
Hmm, ActivisionBlizzard is kind of slipping here...
HoN: seamless multiplayer interface, incredible channel overlay, game title searching, huge improvement from WC3 engine. No features removed for the DotA experience.
SC2: chunky multiplayer interface, removal of old features such as channels, LAN, and custom game titles. Achievements and facebook integration added.
ActivisionBlizzard is really falling behind...
HoN: Replays show all stats in a unobtrusive window, letting you monitor all stats of all players at once. Replays can be rewound, or can skip ahead at will. More playback speed options. All replays stored in online database, given the number anyone can see any replay without downloading from websites.
I haven't played a HoN game in a few patches as I have been beta testing SC2, but I just now started up HoN, looked through the list of every game I have ever played, downloaded the replay of an ancient game, pressed the "compatize" button to achieve the correct patch without relogging from Bnet or any of the hoops Battlenet makes you jump through, and enjoyed the features of the replay engine. I skipped backwards, forwards, I even went back to the lobby and played through that, all from the replay. I enjoyed the spectator UI, and the 7 playback speeds. I did not have to relog like SC2 would have made me for an old patch replay.
SC2: Replays show one stat for all players, in a moderately large window. Replays cannot skip ahead because apparently for Blizzard the technology is not there yet. To view others' replays you must go outside of SC2, download the file, move it to the correct directory, and restart SC2. If the replay is old, I have to relog onto bnet.
At this point it is very apparent that the small company S2games is doing far worse than the billion dollar giant ActivisionBlizzard.
If Blizzard told me tomorrow that they were copying the entire HoN interface for SC2, I would preorder the game immediately. As is, it's just embarrassing how outclassed they are by this small game developer.
|
I'm continuously baffled at how many people don't understand my analogy
|
On June 04 2010 17:58 HELLA wrote:
I will explain for you so that you might understand. I'll even throw up some of my own comparisons.
Heroes of Newerth: new game, new version of DotA
Starcraft 2: new game, new version of Starcraft
THAT is what the OP means by "mirror" - they are the DotA and SC 2.0 versions.
Now, lets look at what we have to compare!
HoN: Some old heroes, some new heroes, same type of game.
SC2: Some old units, some new units, same type of game.
Here's where the analogy fails. This is like saying that a sequel of any game is a mirror of a sequel of any other game.
Let me point out the flaws in this argument with an example of a random game I picked:
Mass Effect 2: new game, new version of Mass Effect.
Starcraft 2: new game, new version of Starcraft.
ME 2: some old heroes, some new heroes, same type of game.
SC 2: some old units, some new units, same type of game.
Is Mass Effect 2 a mirror of Starcraft 2? lol. That's ridiculous. They're not even the same genre.
You guys really need to learn to articulate your ideas. If you want to compare the development cycles for DotA to HoN and SC to SC2 then you might actually have something going. Does battle.net 2.0 have shortcomings compared to 1.0? Yes it does. I think so too. Is it worth comparing HoN's online features to SC2's online features? Not really, not at all. They're different types of games and they all require different features. In fact I don't think anyone plays HoN 1v1 competitively. It's probably not even balanced for 1v1 whereas Starcraft 2 is all about 1v1 first and team games after.
When S2 starts running a billion dollar business, then maybe they can teach a thing or two to Blizzard about developing games. Until then, these comparisons are retarded.
On June 04 2010 17:32 InRaged wrote:
Good for you! You wouldn't be able to comprehend the rest anyway~
Like you couldn't comprehend the rest of my one line post obviously.
This analogy is terrible. HoN and SC2 aren't mirrors of each other in any way.
|
On June 05 2010 07:27 xinxy wrote:Here's where the analogy fails. This is like saying that a sequel of any game is a mirror of a sequel of any other game.
Let me point out the flaws in this argument with an example of a random game I picked:
Mass Effect 2: new game, new version of Mass Effect.
Starcraft 2: new game, new version of Starcraft.
ME 2: some old heroes, some new heroes, same type of game.
SC 2: some old units, some new units, same type of game.
Is Mass Effect 2 a mirror of Starcraft 2? lol. That's ridiculous. They're not even the same genre.
You guys really need to learn to articulate your ideas. If you want to compare the development cycles for DotA to HoN and SC to SC2 then you might actually have something going. Does battle.net 2.0 have shortcomings compared to 1.0? Yes it does. I think so too. Is it worth comparing HoN's online features to SC2's online features? Not really, not at all. They're different types of games and they all require different features. In fact I don't think anyone plays HoN 1v1 competitively. It's probably not even balanced for 1v1 whereas Starcraft 2 is all about 1v1 first and team games after.
When S2 starts running a billion dollar business, then maybe they can teach a thing or two to Blizzard about developing games. Until then, these comparisons are retarded.
No, the analogy is fine. Both are Blizzard style RTS games. Both are highly competitive. Your attempt to break the analogy has failed.
Blizzard got rich making a bunch of great games. That team is gone, and now we are getting Starcraft 2. There is no guarantee that it will be as good as previous games.
Your "argument" that because a company has a lot of money, their inadequacy in making a new game is excused, is an entirely fallacious one.
Starcraft 2 is a fun game, and I'm sure the single player experience will be great, and that the power of each race will eventually be equalized, but compared to HoN's multiplayer interface, Starcraft 2's is atrocious.
|
On June 05 2010 10:14 HELLA wrote:
No, the analogy is fine. Both are Blizzard style RTS games. Both are highly competitive. Your attempt to break the analogy has failed.
Blizzard got rich making a bunch of great games. That team is gone, and now we are getting Starcraft 2. There is no guarantee that it will be as good as previous games.
Your "argument" that because a company has a lot of money, their inadequacy in making a new game is excused, is an entirely fallacious one.
Starcraft 2 is a fun game, and I'm sure the single player experience will be great, and that the power of each race will eventually be equalized, but compared to HoN's multiplayer interface, Starcraft 2's is atrocious.
DotA is not a Blizzard style game in neither concept nor execution. DotA is not an RTS game. This is like talking to a wall.
Games like DotA are actually called Multiplayer Battle Arenas and not RTS games. This includes League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, Demigod, and other similar titles.
Additionally, the team that made Blizzard's great games is not gone. Where do you get your information? Have you EVER read the SC1 credits? Read them again if you want. The brains behind the game pretty much all still work at Blizzard. From Chris Metzen, to Rob Pardo, to Shane Dabiri. A few changes have been made yes, and they've added even more talent to their teams.
Feel free to stick to HoN though...
|
On June 05 2010 14:05 xinxy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 10:14 HELLA wrote:
...
Starcraft 2 is a fun game, and I'm sure the single player experience will be great, and that the power of each race will eventually be equalized, but compared to HoN's multiplayer interface, Starcraft 2's is atrocious.
... ... Feel free to stick to HoN though... ...
So despite him thinking SC2 is fun, he should stick to HoN? Disliking one part of the game is not the same thing as stepping away from it entirely (especially when its not even gameplay related).
Blizzard will probably fix some of the stuff thats terrible at the moment (chat, custom games), they likely won't fix some other (LAN).
What i really do hope they change though is localization, i want to be able to play with friends in the US without getting another key.
|
On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
HoN
(even if the game itself isn't for casuals)
"Not for casuals"
Yeah, progaming with 1 hand, controlling 1 unit is to hard for casuals.
|
On June 05 2010 15:02 Gaxton wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
HoN
(even if the game itself isn't for casuals)
"Not for casuals" Yeah, progaming with 1 hand, controlling 1 unit is to hard for casuals.
Well the way it's set up it's a fairly competitive nature, i mean there are no ums maps in hon, if there was no ums maps in sc or wc3 it would be pretty much for competition only i would say.
It's not a matter of how hard it is to micro/macro it's a matter of atmosphere.
|
You guys that criticize the OP for the first sentence are fucking retarded. He is saying that HON is to DOTA as SC2 is to BW, and that the direction that S2 took to improve DOTA was vastly superior to the amount of progress that Blizzard has made trying to improve BW. If you can't read the entire post then don't even bother posting
|
On June 05 2010 15:02 Gaxton wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
HoN
(even if the game itself isn't for casuals)
"Not for casuals" Yeah, progaming with 1 hand, controlling 1 unit is to hard for casuals.
You've never played real DOTA/HoN have you
|
On June 05 2010 15:04 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 15:02 Gaxton wrote:On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
HoN
(even if the game itself isn't for casuals)
"Not for casuals" Yeah, progaming with 1 hand, controlling 1 unit is to hard for casuals. Well the way it's set up it's a fairly competitive nature, i mean there are no ums maps in hon, if there was no ums maps in sc or wc3 it would be pretty much for competition only i would say. It's not a matter of how hard it is to micro/macro it's a matter of atmosphere.
Well, there are hardly any UMS maps in non-Blizzard RTS games, yet I wouldn't consider them more "for competition" than BW. ^___^
|
Haha I laughed pretty hard at people not reading the OP and saying a bunch of crap.
HoN's "battlne" is really awesome, from the beginning of HoN Beta to this date it only got better. Battle.net 2.0 is so terrible it's kind of funny.
And saying DotA is better than HoN is also kind of funny.
|
I liked the beta HON interface better than the new one.. It was much cleaner and easier to use.
|
On June 05 2010 15:02 Gaxton wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2010 10:01 positronix wrote:
HoN
(even if the game itself isn't for casuals)
"Not for casuals" Yeah, progaming with 1 hand, controlling 1 unit is to hard for casuals.
Trust me the competition is pretty intese (Not as much as in lets say BW but there is skill involved).. not too much in a sense of micro or macro but in a sense of teamwork, "lane"coordination and strategically outmaneuvaring your opponent.
|
On June 05 2010 15:11 Blyadischa wrote:
You guys that criticize the OP for the first sentence are fucking retarded. He is saying that HON is to DOTA as SC2 is to BW, and that the direction that S2 took to improve DOTA was vastly superior to the amount of progress that Blizzard has made trying to improve BW. If you can't read the entire post then don't even bother posting
Really, having less heroes, worse balance, less modes and bringing virtually nothing new is better than SC2 being a completely new and fun to play game than BW? People should stop mixing up the GAME with the SERVICE.
HoN's server system is fantastic, but there are flaws with HoN's online interface. For one thing its matchmaking is terrible, and that alone makes Battle.net 2.0 better. A few games into a reset, I'm usually playing people who aren't far above or below, an experience that nothing HoN delivers, with its team equalizing based on a broken ELO system.
|
It's true. Matchmaking in HoN is pretty bad, but to be fair all games are stat recorded and teams can be autobalanced to be even, so any game can be like a SC2 matchmaking game, except there is more transparency and no mysterious league systems.
But as for the overall interface, and "battlenet" like system, HoN wins by a landslide. And no matter how much you put your fingers in your ears and say "lalalala can't hear you", HoN will be to DotA just as SC2 is to SC1.
|
On June 04 2010 14:47 semantics wrote:
Hon hosts their game, SC2 does not host it's own game it's connects everyone to the server and the server decides who has the best set up to host and goes from there.
Since when? All games, even the custom ones are hosted by bnet.
That's why you can lag even if you're the only player in the game.
|
Really, you cant really argue that HoN's interface is better. In terms of design, Battle.net 2 (and Starcraft 2 for that matter) is far more superior, in most aspects.
On June 06 2010 18:10 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 14:47 semantics wrote:
Hon hosts their game, SC2 does not host it's own game it's connects everyone to the server and the server decides who has the best set up to host and goes from there. Since when? All games, even the custom ones are hosted by bnet. That's why you can lag even if you're the only player in the game.
Both SC2 and HoN "hosts" the game, but Starcraft 2 uses a kind of hybrid P2P n Client-Server system (it seems), while in HoN, everything is server-sided. It uses lots of controls for maphacking and more, and that will probably kill HoN because of all processing power, it will be too expensive to have the servers up.
|
was thinking of this exact thing a few days ago - s2 ended up doing such a great interface with HoN; pity Blizzard can't do the same
|
On June 06 2010 19:07 cocosoft wrote:
Really, you cant really argue that HoN's interface is better. In terms of design, Battle.net 2 (and Starcraft 2 for that matter) is far more superior, in most aspects.
Most aspects? Try no aspects. Really, list all the reasons that Bnet 2.0 is supposedly better than HoN's online play. I can't think of any legitimate aspects, it would be nice to know about any if they exist. Here's some of my comparisons for you to think about.
On June 04 2010 17:58 HELLA wrote:
HoN: Vastly improved in game interface, S2games pulls no punches when it comes to improving the interface
SC2: Improved interface. Blizzard holds back on improving the interface too much
HoN: seamless multiplayer interface, incredible channel overlay, game title searching, huge improvement from WC3 engine. No features removed for the DotA experience.
SC2: chunky multiplayer interface, removal of old features such as channels, LAN, and custom game titles. Achievements and facebook integration added.
HoN: Replays show all stats in a unobtrusive window, letting you monitor all stats of all players at once. Replays can be rewound, or can skip ahead at will. More playback speed options. All replays stored in online database, given the number anyone can see any replay without downloading from websites.
I haven't played a HoN game in a few patches as I have been beta testing SC2, but I just now started up HoN, looked through the list of every game I have ever played, downloaded the replay of an ancient game, pressed the "compatize" button to achieve the correct patch without relogging from Bnet or any of the hoops Battlenet makes you jump through, and enjoyed the features of the replay engine. I skipped backwards, forwards, I even went back to the lobby and played through that, all from the replay. I enjoyed the spectator UI, and the 7 playback speeds. I did not have to relog like SC2 would have made me for an old patch replay.
SC2: Replays show one stat for all players, in a moderately large window. Replays cannot skip ahead because apparently for Blizzard the technology is not there yet. To view others' replays you must go outside of SC2, download the file, move it to the correct directory, and restart SC2. If the replay is old, I have to relog onto bnet.
|
as far as reconnecting goes, it would be ok if it made you wait a maximum of 3mins or so for them to reconnect, after that you can choose to keep waiting or just take the win.
hell, even make it so you can choose to wait or take the victory the instant they drop; i guarantee that most diamond/plat players are mannered enough to wait a few mins.
looking at those screenshots makes me even more frustrated with blizzard. i play LOL not HON, and LOL's online features aren't as comprehensive as HoN's, but its still miles ahead of BNET 2.0.
|
On June 04 2010 08:22 Idejder wrote:
:O
This thread took me by surprise.
WTF
Is this real?
Hi Idejder :O
|
LOL inferface greater than sc2 pretty much sums it up
|
Yep. Unless in the next few hours SC2 comes back up and reveals a massive beautiful overhaul of the entire system, s2games' HoN interface will remain superior to SC2's through launch, and likely for the entirety of SC2's existence.
|
I don't mind the sc2 interface. It's just the fact that they don't have chat channels. Honestly, I feel like people are just trying to look for stuff to complain about....
|
2 things...
1. I like the interface, it's sleek and nice looking...
2. Why are people all of a sudden digging up old threads?
|
I misread June 8 as July 8 unfortunately.
Now this thread is basically just wishful thinking, as there is no way Blizzard will improve Bnet 2.0 given the lack of changes during the month hiatus from beta. Sad panda
|
i must say the comparison of HoN: DotA and SC2: SCBW offends me a little.
HoN is a DotA clone, SC2 is NOT a SCBW clone.
HoN has a few extra units and such, but its still basically the same game. I think SC@ and BW are very, very different.
|
Seriously?
HoN is Dota with changed features, maps, heroes, new heroes, entirely new interface, new balance, etc.
SC2 is SCBW with changed features, maps, units, new units, entirely new interface, new balance, etc.
It is literally the closest game sequel comparison I can think of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
