• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:52
CET 22:52
KST 06:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win32025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Analysis of the Trump-Lee S…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1310 users

magic box in SC2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
deadalnix
Profile Joined May 2010
France120 Posts
May 24 2010 20:19 GMT
#1
Hi,

In BW, we had a pathfinding system working with « magic box ». I will not explain you again what is a magic box, as long as it is really well explaind in liquidpedia : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Magic_Boxes

The magic box allow us to make some formations with our units and units keep the formation given some condition.

In SC2, unit seems to always make some kind of big balls. This make the battle look like big ball vs big ball, which isn't really nice.

Why not having a similar functionnality in SC2 ? The magic box system was even mentionned on the starcraft CD case as a new revolutionnary functionnality. Tjis isn't revolutionnary now ?

What do you think ?
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
May 24 2010 20:22 GMT
#2
I think you're suffering from one ctrl grp syndrome, and that you should start setting up controls for more than just one big blop of units
AKA SuddenSalad
Darpinion
Profile Joined January 2010
United States210 Posts
May 24 2010 20:23 GMT
#3
The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.
"A well formulated question is more important than the answer." -Albert Einstein
deadalnix
Profile Joined May 2010
France120 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-24 20:29:05
May 24 2010 20:27 GMT
#4
On May 25 2010 05:22 Lovin wrote:
I think you're suffering from one ctrl grp syndrome, and that you should start setting up controls for more than just one big blop of units


This is quite unrelated. If you make 2 groupe, you'll have two balls of units :D And if you make 3 groups, you'll get with 3 balls.

That's way différent from the magic box concept.

Darpinion > Sure if the whole stuff have to be recoded, this is unrealistic. But as wehave see with the micro project, the engine is really permissive and maybe allow for these kinf of tweak. (I trully don't know)
metasonic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States115 Posts
May 24 2010 20:27 GMT
#5
I was never much of a BW player but this looks really cool. I think it would be great to have this functionality in SC2. They could even have it be an option so people could turn it off if they want.

Really shows how much thought was put into the gameplay of SC1... I wish the current developers had the same mindset
PhoenixM1
Profile Joined January 2010
United States178 Posts
May 24 2010 20:28 GMT
#6
Blizzard might have gone a little overkill with the improved AI. Not just stuff like selecting all your units but with shit like auto focusing workers and zergling auto surrounds. These AI improvements are being abused (morrow build anyone?) by good players.
=/
metasonic
Profile Joined April 2010
United States115 Posts
May 24 2010 20:31 GMT
#7
On May 25 2010 05:23 Darpinion wrote:
The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.


I don't think the whole pathing system would have to be reworked, just which coordinates are given for units to move to when they have been selected under different group conditions. The code for telling the unit to go from x1, y1 to x2, y2 could remain the same.
CowGoMoo
Profile Joined December 2006
United States428 Posts
May 24 2010 20:36 GMT
#8
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.
Spawkuring
Profile Joined July 2008
United States755 Posts
May 24 2010 20:49 GMT
#9
On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.


This is true. It's pretty noticeable with air units, but it seems to be "nerfed" in regards to ground units, probably due to the units clustering up more.

I'm still not a fan of the whole units cluster up thing though. It's annoying knowing that no matter how you handle them, units will always form into a tight ball when you order them to move. It makes strategic positioning much more annoying to do, so most people just give up and resort to ball vs. ball.
givemefive
Profile Joined April 2010
United States300 Posts
May 24 2010 21:03 GMT
#10
On May 25 2010 05:49 Spawkuring wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.


I'm still not a fan of the whole units cluster up thing though. It's annoying knowing that no matter how you handle them, units will always form into a tight ball when you order them to move. It makes strategic positioning much more annoying to do, so most people just give up and resort to ball vs. ball.


It makes tanks so freakin good
Hammy
Profile Joined January 2009
France828 Posts
May 24 2010 21:09 GMT
#11
On May 25 2010 05:23 Darpinion wrote:
The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.

Yes I've mostly noticed that with small air armies and zergling micro. I haven't been able to use it to effect though.
Lobo2me
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway1213 Posts
May 24 2010 21:13 GMT
#12
Everything so far seems to me that there is a magic box in SC2 as well. Select a group of 10 or so air units, move them somewhere, hold shift, press P, click a bit further away. They will all start patrol dancing in the same grid before they started moving. Try that with more units and it won't work.
Bad manners are better than no manners at all.
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
May 24 2010 21:14 GMT
#13
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
May 24 2010 21:22 GMT
#14
On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.


the only bullshit here is your post. and its obscure that you think a function, that would improve control in micro management is not needed.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
May 24 2010 21:35 GMT
#15
WC3 TFT had one and it was awesome especially for Huntress micro. I really hope there is one in SC2 that we haven't noticed as in both BW and W3 it made for some very interesting positional micro, that can't be achieved without such a system.
i-bonjwa
firebound12
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada274 Posts
May 24 2010 21:36 GMT
#16
[image loading]

Epic image coming in this post! :D

On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.


This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size.

However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only:

# Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings
# Multiple transport drop

It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit!
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Sandrosuperstar
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden525 Posts
May 24 2010 21:43 GMT
#17
On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:
[image loading]

Epic image coming in this post! :D

Show nested quote +
On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.


This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size.

However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only:

# Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings
# Multiple transport drop

It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect):
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit!
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



This was really interessting thanks man! I really hope that they decide to makke it bigger before release :D
I'm homo for Lomo, gay for GGplay, but at the end of the day I put my dong in Lee Jaedong
Maginor
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway505 Posts
May 24 2010 21:52 GMT
#18
In Warcraft 3, units are actually forced into formation in a similar way that they are in age of empires. This is not the same as the magic box, which is designed to preserve the formation the units start moving in.
Atticus.axl
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
May 24 2010 21:52 GMT
#19
On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.


You mean everything that made the first game great?
DoctorHelvetica <3
nurle
Profile Joined August 2009
Norway308 Posts
May 24 2010 21:57 GMT
#20
On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.


why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_-
Jaedong fucking beast
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason146
SteadfastSC 134
ProTech97
UpATreeSC 36
SpeCial 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 627
Dota 2
monkeys_forever363
capcasts19
Counter-Strike
Foxcn259
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox12
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu455
Other Games
Grubby3033
ScreaM1372
fl0m959
FrodaN763
shahzam611
Skadoodle215
C9.Mang0156
Livibee106
ArmadaUGS96
ZombieGrub69
Maynarde60
Mew2King54
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 20
• davetesta10
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 57
• Azhi_Dahaki21
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21502
• WagamamaTV985
League of Legends
• Doublelift1986
Counter-Strike
• TFBlade507
Other Games
• imaqtpie1279
• Scarra528
• Shiphtur142
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 8m
The PondCast
11h 8m
OSC
14h 8m
Harstem vs SKillous
Gerald vs Spirit
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cham vs Ryung
CrankTV Team League
15h 8m
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
1d 12h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 14h
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
1d 14h
CrankTV Team League
1d 15h
BASILISK vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.