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Hi,
In BW, we had a pathfinding system working with « magic box ». I will not explain you again what is a magic box, as long as it is really well explaind in liquidpedia : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Magic_Boxes
The magic box allow us to make some formations with our units and units keep the formation given some condition.
In SC2, unit seems to always make some kind of big balls. This make the battle look like big ball vs big ball, which isn't really nice.
Why not having a similar functionnality in SC2 ? The magic box system was even mentionned on the starcraft CD case as a new revolutionnary functionnality. Tjis isn't revolutionnary now ?
What do you think ?
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I think you're suffering from one ctrl grp syndrome, and that you should start setting up controls for more than just one big blop of units
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The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.
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On May 25 2010 05:22 Lovin wrote:
I think you're suffering from one ctrl grp syndrome, and that you should start setting up controls for more than just one big blop of units
This is quite unrelated. If you make 2 groupe, you'll have two balls of units :D And if you make 3 groups, you'll get with 3 balls.
That's way différent from the magic box concept.
Darpinion > Sure if the whole stuff have to be recoded, this is unrealistic. But as wehave see with the micro project, the engine is really permissive and maybe allow for these kinf of tweak. (I trully don't know)
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I was never much of a BW player but this looks really cool. I think it would be great to have this functionality in SC2. They could even have it be an option so people could turn it off if they want.
Really shows how much thought was put into the gameplay of SC1... I wish the current developers had the same mindset 
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Blizzard might have gone a little overkill with the improved AI. Not just stuff like selecting all your units but with shit like auto focusing workers and zergling auto surrounds. These AI improvements are being abused (morrow build anyone?) by good players.
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On May 25 2010 05:23 Darpinion wrote:
The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.
I don't think the whole pathing system would have to be reworked, just which coordinates are given for units to move to when they have been selected under different group conditions. The code for telling the unit to go from x1, y1 to x2, y2 could remain the same.
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Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.
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On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.
This is true. It's pretty noticeable with air units, but it seems to be "nerfed" in regards to ground units, probably due to the units clustering up more.
I'm still not a fan of the whole units cluster up thing though. It's annoying knowing that no matter how you handle them, units will always form into a tight ball when you order them to move. It makes strategic positioning much more annoying to do, so most people just give up and resort to ball vs. ball.
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On May 25 2010 05:49 Spawkuring wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. I'm still not a fan of the whole units cluster up thing though. It's annoying knowing that no matter how you handle them, units will always form into a tight ball when you order them to move. It makes strategic positioning much more annoying to do, so most people just give up and resort to ball vs. ball.
It makes tanks so freakin good 
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On May 25 2010 05:23 Darpinion wrote:
The whole pathing system would have to be reworked which isn't going to happen. But I agree, I did like the magic box thing more.
Yes I've mostly noticed that with small air armies and zergling micro. I haven't been able to use it to effect though.
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Everything so far seems to me that there is a magic box in SC2 as well. Select a group of 10 or so air units, move them somewhere, hold shift, press P, click a bit further away. They will all start patrol dancing in the same grid before they started moving. Try that with more units and it won't work.
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good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.
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On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.
the only bullshit here is your post. and its obscure that you think a function, that would improve control in micro management is not needed.
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WC3 TFT had one and it was awesome especially for Huntress micro. I really hope there is one in SC2 that we haven't noticed as in both BW and W3 it made for some very interesting positional micro, that can't be achieved without such a system.
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![[image loading]](http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4347/screenshot003z.jpg)
Epic image coming in this post! :D
On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.
This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size.
However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only:
# Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings
# Multiple transport drop
It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect):
+ Show Spoiler +
No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX)
+ Show Spoiler +
If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit!
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND:
+ Show Spoiler +
Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:Epic image coming in this post! :D Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler +
This was really interessting thanks man! I really hope that they decide to makke it bigger before release :D
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In Warcraft 3, units are actually forced into formation in a similar way that they are in age of empires. This is not the same as the magic box, which is designed to preserve the formation the units start moving in.
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On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.
You mean everything that made the first game great?
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On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box.
why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_-
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