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On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:![[image loading]](http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4347/screenshot003z.jpg) Epic image coming in this post! :D Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler +
Nice read, thx.
So how the hell it always ends up with balls of units ? It shouldn't if order is given outside the box :/
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On May 25 2010 07:14 deadalnix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:Epic image coming in this post! :D On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler + Nice read, thx. So how the hell it always ends up with balls of units ? It shouldn't if order is given outside the box :/
you only get a ball if the box itself is too big
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On May 25 2010 07:19 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 07:14 deadalnix wrote:On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:Epic image coming in this post! :D On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler + Nice read, thx. So how the hell it always ends up with balls of units ? It shouldn't if order is given outside the box :/ you only get a ball if the box itself is too big
Yep, the magic box is usually too small for any considerably big army, so they will almost always clump up.
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On May 25 2010 07:34 firebound12 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 07:19 clickrush wrote:On May 25 2010 07:14 deadalnix wrote:On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:Epic image coming in this post! :D On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler + Nice read, thx. So how the hell it always ends up with balls of units ? It shouldn't if order is given outside the box :/ you only get a ball if the box itself is too big Yep, the magic box is usually too small for any considerably big army, so they will almost always clump up.
I think this is a good thing. It'll force players to get out of the 1-ctrl group syndrome if they want any form of formations and such.
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On May 25 2010 07:38 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 07:34 firebound12 wrote:On May 25 2010 07:19 clickrush wrote:On May 25 2010 07:14 deadalnix wrote:On May 25 2010 06:36 firebound12 wrote:Epic image coming in this post! :D On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box. This is absolutely true. I have tested it plenty of time in the editor. I can safely say that the magic box have considerably been reduced in SC2 for both air and ground, as both air and ground magic boxes in SC2 are approximately the same size. However, due to the smart cast and the anti-clumping mechanism in SC2, I do not see this as a necessity in SC2. I could see the uses in these only: # Laying Spider Mines burrowing banelings # Multiple transport drop It is almost impossible to cast multiple spells at the same time, due to the fact that only one caster will move at a time. However, if you move while casting the spells without using the shift button, you get this (sorry this isn't perfect): + Show Spoiler +No matter how tiny it is, the magic box works and units will stay in formation as long as you click outside of their box (NOT THE UNIVERSAL MAGIC BOX) + Show Spoiler +If we click INSIDE the box, the formation fall. The minimum unit selection box is the box of the current selected unit! + Show Spoiler +Here is the maximum magic box for BOTH AIR AND GROUND: + Show Spoiler +Again, the magic box doesnt need to be in a rectangular fashion: + Show Spoiler + Nice read, thx. So how the hell it always ends up with balls of units ? It shouldn't if order is given outside the box :/ you only get a ball if the box itself is too big Yep, the magic box is usually too small for any considerably big army, so they will almost always clump up. I think this is a good thing. It'll force players to get out of the 1-ctrl group syndrome if they want any form of formations and such.
Oh gosh, imagine the possibilities for baneling and ghosts positioning with the magic box :o!!
and of course the doom drop! :3
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On May 25 2010 06:52 Maginor wrote:
In Warcraft 3, units are actually forced into formation in a similar way that they are in age of empires. This is not the same as the magic box, which is designed to preserve the formation the units start moving in.
Only if you played with formations on which nobody did.
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I don't agree that you need the magic box for skill.
By that I mean that it probably was a good feature, but this way in Starcraft 2 to micro your units you have to move them each individually! Isn't that more skill?
If units clump up too much it probably is a problem, but the solution isn't necessarily to make everything the same as in Brood War.
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On May 25 2010 06:52 Maginor wrote:
In Warcraft 3, units are actually forced into formation in a similar way that they are in age of empires. This is not the same as the magic box, which is designed to preserve the formation the units start moving in.
Ignorant War3 posts seem to be the norm around here. Formation movement was not "forced" there was a toggle switch to turn it off. Good players played with it turned off. And it doesn't "preserve the formation the units start moving in." It puts melee units infront of ranged/caster units. The ranged units will actually slow down so that the melee units can catch up and get in front of them.
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On May 25 2010 08:02 Redmark wrote:
I don't agree that you need the magic box for skill.
By that I mean that it probably was a good feature, but this way in Starcraft 2 to micro your units you have to move them each individually! Isn't that more skill?
If units clump up too much it probably is a problem, but the solution isn't necessarily to make everything the same as in Brood War.
...
We didn't necessarily say that you need the magic box. Controlling individuals units is in both starcraft 1 and 2. The big implication that magic box has in SC2 is that you can still make doom drop. Magic box is crucial for those drops because you can drop from each transport in a formation, instead of all your transports dropping on one point. This is true for SC1, and I am glad that we can still do that in SC2, even though the magic box has been drastically reduced in SC2.
If you haven't this, then you don't know how cool it is to storm simultaneously with the magic box. In SC2 it is harder, but possible as I have just demonstrated.
![[image loading]](http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4117/screenshot005nm.jpg)
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On May 25 2010 06:57 nurle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box. why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_-
I think the only reason why we think it's 'good' is because we are used to it from SC1. Ask a player who never played BW and you'll probably see that they think the units in bw move too clunky.
I don't think the magic box is necessary. How can you say 'removing everything that requires skill' yet ask for something that actually you to do less. Imagine casting 4 storms in a box, even the idea seems imba.
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i saw it in a day9 daily and was amazed. i have a feeling the magic box is pretty small, if in existence. i've had minimal success keeping small numbers of units in formation. the concept is very useful in countering the mighty baneling with rines, and any other aoe attacks
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I think the only reason why we think it's 'good' is because we are used to it from SC1. Ask a player who never played BW and you'll probably see that they think the units in bw move too clunky.
Actually units un BW acted like retarded. But the magic box was one of the only stuff they did well :D
Now they can found theyre own way but end up in balls. I'm not sure this is really better.
I don't think the magic box is necessary. How can you say 'removing everything that requires skill' yet ask for something that actually you to do less. Imagine casting 4 storms in a box, even the idea seems imba.
I do not believe that we should keep some old crap just because they require skill. I'm sure we can do thing that require skill and aren't stupid. So I see no reason to keep units acting like retarded ones.
reavers or lurker where units that prove you can introduce in a game stuff that require skill without having morons units.
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On May 25 2010 08:54 eLiE wrote:
i saw it in a day9 daily and was amazed.
What did you was in day9 daily ? And which one ?
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They didn't look retarded! We loved those units and our magic box!
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i have a feeling the magic box is pretty small
Imagine casting 4 storms in a box, even the idea seems imba.
the way this thread is going discourages me = =;;
1. I just showed that the magic box is indeed smaller.
2. You can still cast 4 storms in a "box fashion" in sc2, and that's why it was so cool in sc1. Stop calling stuff imba. It wasnt in sc1 and it wont in sc2 (also due to the fact that sc2 storm is weaker)
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It's still there in SC2, but it could stand to be bigger. It's a lot harder to pull off the neat micro tricks you could do with it. It also made positioning your army easier, which will definitely help in SC2 against banelings.
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On May 25 2010 05:36 CowGoMoo wrote:
Magic Boxes are totally in SC2, its just a fairly small box.
man i wish you'd post more often 
thanks for your gems.
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On May 25 2010 06:57 nurle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box. why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_-
The magic box was obscure. We were all used to it in brood war, but "secret" things like this is what made sc1 too unapproachable without deep knowledge of how to use the archaic interface. I'm glad SC2 does not have such reliance on these weird properties that were inherent to the first game's engine, although I'm sure we'll find out quirks in the SC2 interface that works for the design of the game.
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On May 25 2010 09:34 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 06:57 nurle wrote:On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box. why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_- The magic box was obscure. We were all used to it in brood war, but "secret" things like this is what made sc1 too unapproachable without deep knowledge of how to use the archaic interface. I'm glad SC2 does not have such reliance on these weird properties that were inherent to the first game's engine, although I'm sure we'll find out quirks in the SC2 interface that works for the design of the game.
Wait, you mean those obscure, weird and archaic mechanism that made SC1 pro-scene so awesome? No more muta micro sniping off those scourge? It is not that big of a "secret" if you dig just a little bit. I agree some things have to be improve from sc1, but the magic box is a basic skill that people use even if they are not aware of it.
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On May 25 2010 09:34 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2010 06:57 nurle wrote:On May 25 2010 06:14 0mar wrote:
good god, the last thing this game needs is obscure bullshit like the magic box. why is that bullshit? sc2 could atleast have something good from sc1, since they are removing everything that requieres skill-_- The magic box was obscure. We were all used to it in brood war, but "secret" things like this is what made sc1 too unapproachable without deep knowledge of how to use the archaic interface. I'm glad SC2 does not have such reliance on these weird properties that were inherent to the first game's engine, although I'm sure we'll find out quirks in the SC2 interface that works for the design of the game.
The magic box is no more obscure than any other "hidden trick" in most competitive games out there. Even the casual Super Smash Bros. has plenty of hidden tricks for people to take advantage of. It's not even the result of an "archaic interface", which is honestly becoming an overused term with this game. It's just a nice part of the game that adds depth and builds community around trying to master it. Since when is that a bad thing?
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