EPTThe sacrifice is that your Infestors are stuck in the ground and can't be out NP/FGing the opponent. That's sacrifice enough.
The Philosophy of Single Target Spells - Page 2
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
The sacrifice is that your Infestors are stuck in the ground and can't be out NP/FGing the opponent. That's sacrifice enough. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
On May 23 2010 22:06 Fiel wrote: @kidcrash: The sacrifice is that your Infestors are stuck in the ground and can't be out NP/FGing the opponent. That's sacrifice enough. Fair enough, if you really think that's enough. In all honesty, you'd have to look at the regeneration rate before you can determine whats balanced and what is sufficient sacrifice. I guess that would be reasonable, I'm just debating how scary fungal growth spam would be. | ||
RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
- change the energy cost to 150 - single target unit gets an aura which will affect all of the friendly units in a X radius - targeted unit increases in size by 25% to make it "microable" and "focusable" Leaving the spell as it is - dirt cheap AND 30 seconds - is a bit powerful early on, because it allows the already "good against everything units" of Zerg to become noticeably better still. Another thing I dont really like is the lack of creativity if you look at the spell of the corruptors ... almost exactly the same of Frenzy, except for the target. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
On May 23 2010 22:13 RaGe wrote: I think the use of Frenzy will be mostly limited to 2v2s. With the ultralisk being useless, there's no valid target, like you mentioned. However, Thors/Colossi seem perfect targets. Except that they're not biological, so it doesn't work. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
I'm not fond of both of the new zerg spells since they fall under "generic army micro", such as focus firing, and for a game such as SCII with a lot of nits fighting against eachother there should just be spells that are really noticeable when used. Using a spell for a minor damage boost might be effective, but I think it's a bit dull. | ||
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
corruption and frenzy essentially do the same thing, however, neither does anything on it's own. They also require a lot more babysitting and Frenzy is hardly worth the APM it would take to use. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
On May 23 2010 22:22 Mr.E wrote: How many fungal growths do you think a player will need? What will you use the rest of the energy on in a key battle? I think you'd have to start getting a bit creative with neural parasite if you had that much extra energy. That being said, if you have more energy than you have targets to fungal growth, the battle is yours either way. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
Not even a quad damage increase corrupt would justify the APM cost of it in a battle. Frenzy could be worth it if it also boosts speed and health. | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
On May 23 2010 22:22 Mr.E wrote: How many fungal growths do you think a player will need? What will you use the rest of the energy on in a key battle? In a game where units are removed because they are redundant (Lurkers), are we really gonna tolerate redundant spells just because they might be useful sometime? | ||
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osten
Sweden316 Posts
Feedback, neural parasite & hsm can actually be as it is because they are such dangerous spells, I think it's ok if it's hard to target it since they are game changing. But to give zerg more and more single cast spells, the swarm should not be like that in my opinion.. | ||
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FarbrorAbavna
Sweden4856 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
On May 23 2010 22:05 Doc Daneeka wrote: it'd be cool to get consume or dark swarm back but it doesn't hurt to have these extra spells. i do mass cast corruption occasionally. mostly i'm just disappointed they couldn't come up with anything more creative for zerg. for example instead of scrapping the old corrupter mechanic they should've worked on tweaking it. I like dark swarm in starcraft 1 but i think it would be broken in starcraft 2. What terran can do with it ? only hellion would be able to do dommage under it | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
On May 23 2010 23:56 StoLiVe wrote: I like dark swarm in starcraft 1 but i think it would be broken in starcraft 2. What terran can do with it ? only hellion would be able to do dommage under it Its clear that Blizzard doesnt want a major spell as the first spell of the Infestor. Infested Terran, Frenzy, both pretty cheap and non game-changing abilities | ||
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JohnQPublic
United States123 Posts
If I were to change frenzy I would just make it so that the target effected cannot be cc'd in anyway and cannot be reduced below 1 health for 10 seconds. That would allow them to actually get up to the front lines and do damage and would be skill dependent because it would always be more beneficial to use it on a unit that is JUST about to die. I mean shit dota has about 100 characters with 4 skills each that alone is enough inspiration to add something interesting. You might want to argue with "They don't want to add anything too complex this close to launch as it could cause serious imbalances and bugs" and I would simply answer to that is if they don't make serious changes this game is going to blow, they have had enough time to add this shit and I find it very alarming that it took till the beta for them to realize zerg was a complete mess and so boring.  | ||
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Icemind
Germany570 Posts
I actually feel that the replacements are a lot less usefull than the spells they replaced. Corruption could really be abused to disable all those warpgates after all the colossi were dead, and although beeing as i admit extremely situational in those situations it could still be a winning move. Same for infested terrans, yes they werent used often, but if you were playing a infestor ling build (and therefore had hardly any anti air) you could use them to snipe dropping medvacs (after immobilizing them with fungal growth) to great effect. Whereas i cant find any use for frenzy whatsoever ... besides using it on ultras yes, but i have yet to come to a situation were teching to ultras is really worth it especially since i pretty much have to research an additional two technologies to make them useable (which not only costs another good bunch of reasources but also more importantly a decent amount of time). Its not even worth it on Broodlords since those deal about half of their damage through the broodlings, therefore frenzy would only increase their damage by about 1/8. | ||
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Glacierz
United States1245 Posts
On May 24 2010 00:34 Icemind wrote: Really nice article and i have to agree with you, those buff/debuff spells had a place in Warcraft 3 because every single unit was worth so much and made such a huge difference (and took a long time to kill) as well as Warcraft beeing more of a micro game in general. You are forgetting defensive matrix in bw. Lots of people still use it in high level games. I don't see anything wrong with adding another micro dimension to the game especially when unit counts are low on both sides after a big battle. | ||
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