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The Philosophy of Single Target Spells

Forum Index > SC2 General
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okrane
Profile Joined April 2010
France265 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 10:32:06
May 23 2010 10:28 GMT
#1
Single target spells are a very important part of any RTS and one of the center pillars of what we like to call "micro". The idea behind a single target spell is that using action time to depict a certain key unit inside your or your enemy's composition and affect it in a certain way, should bend the game into your favor.

This is mostly because most armies consist of a diversified unit composition which single our specific key units, that pretty much make or break the game. So protecting/buffing or debuffing important units in the enemy's armies is essential to the sucess of an attack/defense.

[image loading]
hmmm... now who should I focus fire?

The first trade-off is the APM-cost. In order to cast a single target spell, with precision, one has to stop, specifically point at the target unit and cast the spell. This is getting harder when armies are big and its difficulty is also amplified if you want to cast the spell on multiple units. All translates into time lost which costs precious seconds you could have spend doing something else. Depending on the spell's effect you might be better off by going back to your base and macroing up, or giving other commands (such as mass spells).
"Using mindcontrol on a zergling anyone?"

The second trade-off is Energy cost. If a target has multiple spells, such as mass spells, or single target spells, the energy efficiency might decide which one you have to cast.The arsenal of spells in Starcraft 2 has a bunch of single target spells all of which were destined to this specific role. Let's list some of the most useful ones.

The third effect is their effect upon the game as a show. Pro players with huge APM will find the time to squeeze them in. However, will this change the game? Will their actions make the game nicer to watch? Of course the Korean announcer might eventually go: "Frenzuuuuuuuu" but will it have the same effect to the public? "Oh great now units to a little more dmg which I cant really notice anyway..."

Some single target spells in Starcraft II:
* Neural Parasite: Takes control of that key enemy unit such as a Thor or Collosus.
This is clearly the spell you want to be casting if the enemy's army is composed of a couple big units that deal the damage (such as Collosus, Immortal, Thor) and the rest are just meat units.

* Feedback: Again, focusing the enemy casters and dealing major damage to them while draining all their energy is clearly worth it if the enemy casters are potentially strong against your army composition.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the underwhelming single target spells that have been introduced in the latest patches: Corruption and Frenzy

As opposed to the two spells presented above, which clearly have a major impact upon the battle, these last 2 spells, are just simple buffs/debuffs which give a static damage increase for or against a certain unit. We shall steer away from the situational Ultralisk + Frenzy versus Neural Parasite or 250MM Cannons for the time being because of the sheer situational aspect of that scenario. Here we have two spells, which you can choose to cast in the midst of the battle. The alternative, would be forgetting them and choosing to cast something else, or simply go back inside your base and macro some more.

"This is not Warcraft in space"
[image loading]
Remember Bloodlust? Now wasnt this sweet?

These two spells remind me more and more of another game in the Blizzard universe. Warcraft3 had a bunch of such spells, buffs and debuffs alike, all destined to empowering your army and weakening the enemy for you to gain the upper hand. But let's look at the picture above. You can count a handful of units from each side, and those of you who have played the game know that this is the composition of a mid/late game army. Only 12 units - super units of course - but the philosophy of that game, was completely different. In a game completely orientated on micro, where all units are exceptionally strong, it is always viable to buff or debuff them.

In Starcraft II units have very small health pools in respect to their health and in one blink of an eye multiple units can die. The fact that one unit can deal 25% more damage, for the exact 5 seconds of its expected lifetime, is something negligible.

Furthermore, in Warcraft III such spells, as bloodloust, the ones which you definitely wanted to have casted on all your army were autocasted spells, which means your micro was targeted elsewhere. Lets imagine for a second that this spell werent autocast: like Unholy Frenzy from the Undead Race. Would you spam it on all your units? Some will, some will only cast it on the most powerful units (heroes). But what if your army had 100 Ghouls and a few Necromancers would you bother clicking it 100 times?

Back to Starcraft II we have the newest incarnation of such a spell:

Frenzy
# Costs 25 energy.
# Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds.

On paper this looks decent. Click it a couple of times on some units they do more damage. But let's look at what it usually does. A typical scenario of Zerg armies is the Infestor-Hydra combo, especially against Terran Bio. A hydralisk does 12 damage per shot, which means that with Frenzy on it will do 3 Extra Damage.

Lets picture an Infestor with 75 Energy. The choice is: Cast a Fungal Growth or 3 Frenzy on the hydras. So that means the 3 hydras will do 3 more damage each with each attack.

* Fungal Growth: 36 damage over 8 seconds
* Hydralisk attack rate: 0.83

According to Liquipedia, a hydralisk will land 10 attacks in 8 seconds which means 30 extra damage done. 3 Hydralisks will sum up to 90 more damage. Now if your fungal growth can hit more than 3 units (which it usually does), the spell chosen to cast is a no brainer. Furthermore, with their low health, Hydralisks rarely last sufficiently long for this damage to build up.
[image loading]
tough choice huh?...

But what about mass Infestor, Frenzy-ing everyone??? Bloodlust worked pretty well in Warcraft 3? While this is true on paper, the APM cost of point clicking on every one of your hydras, not to mention the gas cost of your infestors make this really undesirable. You can gain more by a)making more hydras, b) spending the time macroing to c) make more hydras.

Corruption
Another underwhelming spell. Due to the fact that its the only spell for the Corruptor it simply means that it is always beneficial to cast it. I agree that in the case where the oponent is going mass Carriers, having corruptors demolishing them even faster than they normally do it is a beneficial bonus. In most cases however, Corruptors are only used when Collosi are out in the field. Killing the 2-3 Collosi a tad faster is good, but is it worth the APM cost?

The role of air superiority units has evolved in Starcraft 2. Due to their nature these units normally cannot attack buildings and the main ground army making them a really situational choice. Making too many Corruptors (to overkill those collosi) can prove risky if the enemy has enough army to overwhelm your ground forces, even whithout the aid of the collosus. The air superiority fighters of other races, both have an additional ability meant to support ground troops. The Pheonix, with its ability can lift units up, thus damaging and disabling them while the Viking can land and bolster the strength of the ground army.

The Corruptor weakens the enemy ground army instead. Let's look again at the effect of such a spell from the perspective of a hydralisk. 20% more damage from 1 hydralisk means an effective 2 extra damage. This is negated by 2 extra armor. Pretty much it is the counterpart of Guardian Shield. However Guardian shield is 1 button press, whereas this one must be single target cast.

Corruptors in action:
[image loading]
Now they take more damage: but who's gonna kill them???

Pheonixes!:
[image loading]

So is it worth it? I will let players decide. One thing is for sure, this ability is nothing as game changing as Graviton Beam or Viking Ground mode. Maybe its not meant to be.

So we had a look at two of the newest spells and tried to give a rough estimate about their strength and estimate whether they are useful or not. In a game such as Starcraft II where APM is consistently dedicated to macroing up and keeping ahead of the opponent, we can safely conclude that minor buff spells, even if nice to have, will not play a significant role. 1 less Inject Larva, or missing a couple of seconds in producing those reinforcements can prove disastrous in such a fast paced game. Energy is also a resource that needs to be managed carefully, and casting the spell with the greatest effect is surely a priority.

In conclusion, I hope to be proven wrong and that someone will end-up using these to a great extent, but as for now, the philosophy behind these spells seems pretty uncompatible with a game such as Starcraft II.
Really disappointed with Starcraft II Zerg! :(
MidKnight
Profile Joined December 2008
Lithuania884 Posts
May 23 2010 10:44 GMT
#2
Niiiice article.

I've been saying the exact same thing about corruption and now frenzy.
These minor buff/debuff spells just don't fit into the game where units are massed.On top of that they aren't interesting at all to watch.

I respect Blizzard for making such huge changes this late in the beta, but this just isn't it..
cartoon]x
Profile Joined March 2010
United States606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 10:48:39
May 23 2010 10:47 GMT
#3
I see nothing wrong with the spell. For god sakes it's one spell in a big game and serves a pretty specific purpose.
It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce.
Onean
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom38 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 10:49:44
May 23 2010 10:47 GMT
#4
One thing that's not mentioned is that frenzy does not require extra positioning required of extra units. While you might prefer the extra hydras:

1. They still need to be in range (assuming your frenzy boosts units that are in range), so frenzy can be situationally beneficial.
2. You buy the extra units once, frenzy can be used many times (though yes, extras last until they die)
3. The extra APM you use needs to (read; should) be countered to some extent by the other player who focus fires frenzied units.

That said, I've had no chance to play properly since patch 13, so these are just minor points.
I'm not even going to dignify that with a troll.
shalafiend
Profile Joined April 2010
United States62 Posts
May 23 2010 10:53 GMT
#5
single target buff/debuff spells are pretty weak in a mass unit macro game like starcraft, where the focus is large army size/composition and good positioning. Bring back mass aoe spells..statis, maelstrom, plague. Fungal growth, psi storm are decent, but more game changing spells would be nice, so games can have more diversity: players opting for spellcasters instead of aoe damage units: tanks, collosus. Granted, the new smart cast system will make casting overly powerful aoe spells imbalanced, but im sure higher mana cost, longer research time for powerful spells will offer balance.

Aoe support spells will be a good replacement for frenzy (dark swarm, defensive matrix)
We have the new d-matrix, Point defense drone which is awesome, but some new aoe spells that i would like to see are:
mass slow: concusive missles already offer slow: but with mass slow (same aoe as psionic storm), and a relatively hefty mana cost (100), you can slow large amounts of retreating units, or slow an army pushing forward. a large amount of marauders offers the same effect, but this will be a spell

aoe frenzy: allows immunity for slow/stun/mind control etc; cast it on slowed units and save your army.

dispell: wc3 spell? is it overpowered? probably, but would be great on those forcefields: but won't see much use otherwise (maybe a single target spell)

just random thoughts
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
May 23 2010 10:55 GMT
#6
corruption made me feel ehh.. when it was introduced, but frenzy made me MAD! Take that crap OUT
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
WiljushkA
Profile Joined March 2006
Serbia1416 Posts
May 23 2010 11:08 GMT
#7
nothing wrong with corruption. it takes virtually less than a second to corrupt all of your opponents collossi. havent tried frenzy yet, might be useful on ultras.
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
May 23 2010 11:13 GMT
#8
Nice Article, i completely agree with you when it comes to corruptions, but i think that using frenzy on ultralisks is definitely viable, as long as the problems with their aoe damage that are being discussed in another thread get fixed.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Wolfpox
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada164 Posts
May 23 2010 11:14 GMT
#9
SUGGESTION 1:
Instead of having a new ability (Frenzy) how about making it so that you can Neural Parasite your own units and this gives them similar effects? No stun, control, and a damage boost. Perhaps if it's used on a friendly unit there's no timer for how long it can be controlled/buffed, in order to make it more viable and encouraged people to snipe the Infestor.

SUGGESTION 2:
If you don't want to make the Neural Parasite have a double function, then Frenzy just needs a "twist", or another "layer". Buffing is fine, but it's way too straightforward to be tactically interesting. Perhaps it should increase their speed, but decrease their armor by 1? This would make it useful for making a unit run toward (or away from) a fight faster, but make them a little more vulnerable as well.

SUGGESTION 3:
For the Corrupter, its ability also just needs a "twist". I say give them the old Phoenix trade-off of making the unit inactive after being used, but boost the effect of the spell. Or what about making the ability somewhat of a "kamikaze" move that needs to be executed from a Range of 1? Perhaps the "corruption" could actually plant eggs on the unit which explode with AOE damage after a few seconds? Controlling your Corrupters would become a bigger focus and make it feel less like a "spell" that you "cast" on something.
[B] Butigroove wrote:[/B] Blizzard is double expanding to the natural gold base of our poor little nerd hearts.
Tiazi
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands761 Posts
May 23 2010 11:43 GMT
#10
make frenzy auto cast. Problem solved
"A brilliant yet deluded man once said, 'Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.' Gumiho is that agent of chaos." -monk
okrane
Profile Joined April 2010
France265 Posts
May 23 2010 11:44 GMT
#11
Pushing a button and casting a spell should mean more to the game than "hey now these units do/take a little more damage"

Sure, this is nice to have, but for the game's sake as a whole, we need flashy abilities with game changing potential.
Really disappointed with Starcraft II Zerg! :(
Myrkul
Profile Joined February 2009
Croatia132 Posts
May 23 2010 11:53 GMT
#12
i think the point of the frenzy spell is to use them on ultras and hopefully make them more viable for zerg now that roaches have ben nerfed into oblivion
July = best goddamn zvp in this part of the universe
Effect010
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany89 Posts
May 23 2010 11:54 GMT
#13
dissapointing patch...seems like they don´t really think about what they put in the patch-.-
"Keep stepping over dead bodys." - day9
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
May 23 2010 11:59 GMT
#14
I think the issue is that Frenzy and the Corruption abilities are pretty dull in comparison with other stuff. Seriously can you think of more than one or 2 uses for each?
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Goobahfish
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia71 Posts
May 23 2010 12:15 GMT
#15
Your argument is definitely compelling. Single target minor-buffs really have no place in SC. There is an obvious anti-autocast movement on this forum and in the absence of autocast, these spells reward players for phenomenonly fast APM.

I guess I just think there are better options out there. If they are that gung-ho about it, maybe just make it like Roar from W3. Buffs all units within range x... would reduce the APM burden and actually synergise with the swarm race...
The body cannot live without the mind.
tarsier
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom223 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 12:24:53
May 23 2010 12:20 GMT
#16
stop the panic!!!!

what the hell.... it's not like world of warcraft at all... i don't remember shaman's having fungal growth and neural parasite. frenzy will NEVER take the place of either of those gosu spells... it's merely something to 'use up' any left over energy.

frenzy is a minor spell, even using up your last 25 energy on it in the heat of battle will give you a tiny benefit and put the energy to better use than an infested terran.
psion
Profile Joined May 2010
106 Posts
May 23 2010 12:21 GMT
#17
The instant I looked at Frenzy I was very upset. Not because of disappointment, but because Blizzard would even think a Zerg player would ever want to cast such a spell. I don't want to call Blizzard stupid, but they're really giving me no choice.
kidcrash
Profile Joined September 2009
United States620 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 13:01:41
May 23 2010 12:54 GMT
#18
The thing I liked so much about defilers in BW was the fact that they had to ability to gain back energy, but for a price: finding a unit to sacrifice in the heat of the moment. This gave the zerg race a unique and game breaking ability that the other races had nothing similar to. In sc2 there are no units with the ability to gain back energy. So I believe the tradition should be carried on from BW.

Zerg infestors should receive increased energy regeneration while burrowed at the cost of taking on a slight damage increase while underground. The only thing that should be required is researching burrow. Consume wasn't very "exciting" in broodwar, but it literally swung the game in favor of zergs in the TvZ matchup in an instance. Once defilers had consume, all hell would break lose on the battlefield. This would be an updated version of that spell. The way that this ability would change the pace of gameplay would be exciting in itself.

It would be more balanced than consume because the energy increase wouldn't be instantaneous, it would be much more gradual and over time. The extra damage intake (~10%) would force you to babysit your infestors while recharging to make sure they don''t get picked off because let's face it; there needs to be some sort of sacrifice for gaining back energy.
Opinion
Profile Joined May 2010
United States236 Posts
May 23 2010 13:04 GMT
#19
Frenzy Synapses

All biological units within range (9) of the Infestor deal 25% more damage and are immune to snare, stuns, and mind control.
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
May 23 2010 13:05 GMT
#20
it'd be cool to get consume or dark swarm back but it doesn't hurt to have these extra spells. i do mass cast corruption occasionally. mostly i'm just disappointed they couldn't come up with anything more creative for zerg. for example instead of scrapping the old corrupter mechanic they should've worked on tweaking it.
payed off security
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