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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:40 beakermimi wrote: I don't like what you say about silver league players not having a say. The game is for everyone not for pros only and everybody has a right to their opinion. not when you're forming opinions based off of skewed perspectives. ya the game is hard when you're bad at it. shocker. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:23 IdrA wrote: if players are unable or unwilling to learn how to deal with things like that they arent gonna end up being competitive players at all. if you have to give them a crutch to keep them moving theyre just gonna keep going till they hit people who are legitly better and then give up anyway. 1v1's are not meant for people who are competitive but lack skill or work ethic. you're either playing for the fun of it and stick to ums/money maps/dont care if you win, or you're playing to win in which case its your responsibility to learn how to win, given an equal footing. an absolute equal footing, not an equal footing for people with 50 apm and below. Great post. Go IdrA! | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On May 21 2010 18:59 baeracaed wrote: Well, I don't really know what you're getting at. I think there are employees at Blizzard that are doing nothing but watching the SC2 competitive play very closely. They've even linked VODs of TLO on on the official SC2 Twitter account. I don't see why you think Blizzard only needs feedback from a certain group of players, instead of all of them. I think you are saying that feedback from lower skilled players and confusion are mutual inclusive. People posting in the strategy forums should adhere to SC2 Beta Strategy Forum Guidelines. As long as they do that, the input seems worthwhile to me. Low level play is always different from the top. Because the players at the top have better control and better game knowledge different strategies work and different types of play are stronger. Its something that cannot be denied. If your playing in anything but the top of the game then your probably just a casual player and you have no place having the game balanced for you. For the most part if you learned how to play the game then the things you want balanced wouldnt need to be fixed where as at the top level its a lot harder to magically fix your own problems. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:39 IdrA wrote: if you care about winning everything that is effective is frusterating. its frusterating as hell when protoss uses forcefield or makes collosus' or does a warp gate rush. on any level. thats not gonna change. silver players are in silver because they dont find a way to deal with it, and theyre gonna stay there cuz even if you fix everything they complain about theyre just gonna run into another wall. I have to disagree, silver players are silver because they have insanely bad macro. I played zerg, from silver to gold and compete for lower platinum and only recently have i actually had to think strategy rather than simply out produce my opponent. | ||
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Scias
United States148 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:39 Madkipz wrote: Sc2 and battle.net forums upon release especially will reek like an abattoir full of retarded children; they look up to blizzard screaming Nerf plz and he will wisper back. no. lOLLLLL | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:37 Aries37 wrote: Totally agree People really need to stop with the ''Only 2000+ plat players get an opinion'. It's possible to balance at all levels, and have gameplay scale well. The vast majority of players are not super skilled. If <100apm players consistently dominate other <100apm players with void rays over thousands of games then there's a problem with void rays. If starcraft is going to make it big outside of Asia it needs to cater well to players all of skills. If it turns into an elitist circlejerk then people will go back to playing games they actually find fun. Blizzard clearly got the memo so it's time the players work it out too. like i said... if void rays won that often they'd be promoted to a high enough level where they'd lose.. after thousands of games they'd get there for sure.. whats the point of ladder then? why not just make Sims MMORPG in Space and have it appeal to 1 billion people instead of 300 million? if the game wants to be competetive... ie: not end up like EA Command and Conquer franchise which is a complete failure and wants to live up to SC1 name (which is what they want and why they took so effing long to push this shit out) then it will and should be balanced according to top-tier players.. its only a matter of time that they realize this.. if they dont... hello Command and Conquer 5.. the failure of SC2... | ||
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Dawme
France58 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:40 IdrA wrote: not when you're forming opinions based off of skewed perspectives. ya the game is hard when you're bad at it. shocker. But since we have this wonderfull matchmaking thing, when you're bad at it, you're playing against players also bad at it. If for example, a vast majority of protoss are losing often against terran at copper level despite the matchmaking, then you definitely have a balance problem and you need to fix it without breaking the balance for higher levels.. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:42 Madkipz wrote: I have to disagree, silver players are silver because they have insanely bad macro. I played zerg, from silver to gold and compete for lower platinum and only recently have i actually had to think strategy rather than simply out produce my opponent. having bad macro is just one of the things causing them to be unable to deal with this stuff, and improving their macro is one way around it. he can dick around with void rays all he wants if you can still outproduce him. | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
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jtype
England2167 Posts
Who would pull off a better cheese build - a copper league player or a platinum league player? Who's going to get more wins with that build? Who is more likely to mess up and have it countered? Who is the better player to take into consideration when balancing that issue? | ||
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Ruthless
United States492 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:45 IdrA wrote: having bad macro is just one of the things causing them to be unable to deal with this stuff, and improving their macro is one way around it. he can dick around with void rays all he wants if you can still outproduce him. Its like leveling up your wow character, if all the stats suck you can choose any road to improvement :D | ||
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Scias
United States148 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:42 Madkipz wrote: I have to disagree, silver players are silver because they have insanely bad macro. I played zerg, from silver to gold and compete for lower platinum and only recently have i actually had to think strategy rather than simply out produce my opponent. im sure the reason why a silver player is in his league is relative (some have bad macro, some have retarded attacking/decision making... and some only know how to all-in 4 gate or VR rush... oh wait cancel that last one i forgot u can be 1900+ plat toss with that) edit; deng beaten by idra again | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
If you are a Bronze/Silver Player and can't beat a strategy you should ask: Guys, how do I beat this? Stop whining for welfare from Blizzard. This isnt wow | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
you should balance the game from the top down. if you balance it at the stronger level, then that balance will trickle down. both bad players wont be able to do their respective strats/whatever. as opposed to making it balanced competitively but ALSO noob friendly which is just too much to try and tackle, its asking too much and is nearly impossible I think. just silly to think about. if you wanna be good then get good, otherwise dont expect to get the most out of the game with no effort | ||
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Rodiel
France573 Posts
6 ling > all | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:43 Dawme wrote: But since we have this wonderfull matchmaking thing, when you're bad at it, you're playing against players also bad at it. If for example, a vast majority of protoss are losing often against terran at copper level despite the matchmaking, then you definitely have a balance problem and you need to fix it without breaking the balance for higher levels.. why? if you can balance it for good players then the matchup is fair. its not like something superhuman is required, they just need to get better. if they want to win, if they want to be good at the game, they actually have to get good at the game. it seems incredibly stupid to me to be hung up on winning and at the same time demand that blizzard make the game easier for you. | ||
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Necrosjef
United Kingdom530 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:23 IdrA wrote: if players are unable or unwilling to learn how to deal with things like that they arent gonna end up being competitive players at all. if you have to give them a crutch to keep them moving theyre just gonna keep going till they hit people who are legitly better and then give up anyway. 1v1's are not meant for people who are competitive but lack skill or work ethic. you're either playing for the fun of it and stick to ums/money maps/dont care if you win, or you're playing to win in which case its your responsibility to learn how to win, given an equal footing. an absolute equal footing, not an equal footing for people with 50 apm and below. I don't want to put words in IdrA's mouth but balance is balance. If the game is balanced at competitive level then its automatically balanced at lower levels too. Thanks for speaking out IdrA. You might not think it helps and Blizzard might not listen to you but at the very least it vindicates alot of other players who are saying Terran is overpowered and getting shouted down by mass noobs screaming about Voidray. | ||
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Bane_
United Kingdom494 Posts
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jtype
England2167 Posts
On May 21 2010 19:47 IdrA wrote: it seems incredibly stupid to me to be hung up on winning and at the same time demand that blizzard make the game easier for you. I think that pretty much sums it up really. You can't have it both ways. @Bane_ - It's not elitism; it's game development logic. | ||
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