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On May 14 2010 09:12 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
I really feel like Blizzard is indirectly admitting that they screwed up by making roaches so strong at tier 1 and gave Terran/Toss a way to hard counter to this strong unit. How that the roach has faced nerf after nerf after nerf, Marauders and Immortals are just.. even better units than originally intended despite their attempts to slowly nerf it.
Hmm you know all they did was add a build time increase to Immortals. Would people rather have a build time increase over supply increase? It'll slow down massing, but you can keep the 1 supply...
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Nerfing roaches still does nothing to make ultralisks more important when T3 also offers broodlords which are vastly better in every single way.
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Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.
As always, we appreciate the ongoing constructive feedback and will continue to closely monitor the effects of these changes within the game.
great, this almost made me want to quit the game entirely. so much for zerg being a "swarm". this nerf now makes it to where only zerglings/banelings/drones are 1 supply units for zerg where as the bulk of there army is 2 supply. mind as well pick protoss since u get that same effect.
and marauders/immortals comps going to destroy zerg so much easier now. it was hard enought to fend off marauder/marines even with roaches being 1 supply.
and where is the ultra buff they said will be in patch 12?
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On May 14 2010 09:09 ohN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:04 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 14 2010 08:55 Darpinion wrote:On May 14 2010 08:52 cursor wrote:
You have to realize that lots of the changes could be due to the things happening on the Asian server. This is accepted as the most advanced play. If the Forge nerf, or the Thor changes don't make sense to you, it could be just because you are US or EU. I'm sure they look at it all as a whole. The Thor change is the ONLY thing that makes any sense whatsoever. A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. You conveniently forgot that Roach's have half the range of mauraders and move slower.
They move at the same speed on average, actually. Roaches just kind of move in bursts, or at least the animation does. Their base speed is 2.25, going up to 3 if they get the speed upgrade.
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i think they really need to go back to the roots of each race. Roaches i think should have less hp, and cost 25 minerals less and still be worth 1 supply. Then, the marauder, needs to get less hp, because its makes it a tank/ranged unit which makes it a "just make this unit" unit. I really just feel like the zerg needs to have more mass in their army throughout the game, and that the marauders need to be less of a core unit, and more of a support unit for the marines. Maybe, make the marauders have less hp and do less damage to armored units, not quite 10 but like 5 because they literally shred all armored units on the ground. Or maybe just make the marauders cost more gas. I dunno i really don't lose much to pure marauders since I go hydras, but I would like to see some change made to them to make them feel a lot less like tiny tanks. What do you guys think. BTW fix void rays.
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On May 14 2010 03:05 Attica wrote:
Blizzard's Quote on roach change
"Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players. "
Might have been too good at 1 food but I feel like they are too weak to be 2 food. Should just make them 3 food and hatch 2 out of an egg.
I was also thinking maybe 2 supply is a little much. Maybe 1.5 would be a good compromise. But having two pop from an egg might be a little too strong. Zerg could probably rebuild a little too fast after a big battle.
And what's the word on the street about the Ultra buff? I tried using them for a few games and they seemed to die WAY to fast for 300/300. Granted I suck at SC2 but I won't be making Ultras again any time soon, it seems a 50% mix of zerglings hydras are better for the price in almost every way.
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On May 14 2010 09:14 mav451 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:12 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
I really feel like Blizzard is indirectly admitting that they screwed up by making roaches so strong at tier 1 and gave Terran/Toss a way to hard counter to this strong unit. How that the roach has faced nerf after nerf after nerf, Marauders and Immortals are just.. even better units than originally intended despite their attempts to slowly nerf it. Hmm you know all they did was add a build time increase to Immortals. Would people rather have a build time increase over supply increase? It'll slow down massing, but you can keep the 1 supply...
Supply increase, resource cost increase, build time increase, whatever. They're all basically the same thing, intended to slow down production without affecting its strength in combat.
Other changes are far more influential on battles. Look what happened with the Thor's AOE, the Void Ray's improved damage vs Light units, the Hydralisks attack speed decrease, the Phoenix's moving shot, the Stalker's base damage increase, Marauder's Conc Shell upgrade...all of those were big, big changes.
In all cases they affect how much 'bang for you buck' you get, but
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Baa?21244 Posts
On May 14 2010 09:19 lowlypawn wrote:
I was also thinking maybe 2 supply is a little much. Maybe 1.5 would be a good compromise. But having two pop from an egg might be a little too strong. Zerg could probably rebuild a little too fast after a big battle.
50% chance of getting 2 Roaches from one egg imho =D
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Vietnam1555 Posts
I found it laughable how Blizzard nerfed the Forge. Not big of a deal but still sounded like their feedbacks pool is flooded with feedbacks from newbs.
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I was starting to play Z these past 3 days, but now I dont think I want to anymore.. I was having issues with getting supply blocked as is with zerg, esp cause hydras were 2 supply and thats only 4 hydra per ovie... now roaches will make a hydra/roach mix army pretty much impossible.
On a side note.. Anyone care to go back and count how many game-changing nerfs have been handed out to Protoss and zerg compared to terran? All I can think of for terran nerfs that were significant, was SCV hp and marauder shells (which was buffed right after)... Protoss and Zerg, I think got nerfed pretty much every patch, esp zerg with roaches becoming almost useless now cept for dealing with tanks or zealots.
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Canada5565 Posts
I liked all the changes, the Thor size reduction was something I've wanted since I saw the damn thing I'm very happy with this change aesthetically and micro wise.
Protoss changes make sense~~ not so big
Zerg change definitely needed, this will make Zerg thing of more diverse styles of play as mass roaches aren't as easy anymore. Hopefully we will see some cool builds for different MUs soon. I predict more mutas (on EU / US)
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I like the new thor size a lot. They shouldn't be bigger than command centers.
Also as a terran user I approve of this roach change 
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On May 14 2010 09:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:19 lowlypawn wrote:
I was also thinking maybe 2 supply is a little much. Maybe 1.5 would be a good compromise. But having two pop from an egg might be a little too strong. Zerg could probably rebuild a little too fast after a big battle.
50% chance of getting 2 Roaches from one egg imho =D
Lol play the Zerg lotto.
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On May 14 2010 09:16 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:09 ohN wrote:On May 14 2010 09:04 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 14 2010 08:55 Darpinion wrote:On May 14 2010 08:52 cursor wrote:
You have to realize that lots of the changes could be due to the things happening on the Asian server. This is accepted as the most advanced play. If the Forge nerf, or the Thor changes don't make sense to you, it could be just because you are US or EU. I'm sure they look at it all as a whole. The Thor change is the ONLY thing that makes any sense whatsoever. A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. You conveniently forgot that Roach's have half the range of mauraders and move slower. They move at the same speed on average, actually. Roaches just kind of move in bursts, or at least the animation does. Their base speed is 2.25, going up to 3 if they get the speed upgrade.
you cant really compare a marauder to a roach. with good micro a marauder can take out 3 or so roaches cuz of there range and concussive shell. not to mention marauders get bonus dmg vs roaches.
i really cant see a reason in this change when marauders handled roaches so nicely even when they were 1 supply. now that there 2 supply marauders will have a field day with them.
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On May 14 2010 09:21 mrdx wrote:
I found it laughable how Blizzard nerfed the Forge. Not big of a deal but still sounded like their feedbacks pool is flooded with feedbacks from newbs.
yes koreans are noobs
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Roach changes make no sense. They really should move hydra to how it was in BW, t1.5 and 1 food. Move roaches to lair, give them tunneling claws right off the bat. Roaches were hardly mighty.
Terran buff, toss nerf (not even to acknowledging Void Rays need adjusting), and zerg ?? I'm convinced blizzard has no clue what they are doing concerning balance. They issued tons of "ultra" buffs last patch but do nothing even now to make them anymore viable. Somehow I get the feeling they'll deem the ultra fine and not do anything further to even make them useful.
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On May 14 2010 09:23 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 09:16 Bibdy wrote:On May 14 2010 09:09 ohN wrote:On May 14 2010 09:04 Zeke50100 wrote:On May 14 2010 08:55 Darpinion wrote:On May 14 2010 08:52 cursor wrote:
You have to realize that lots of the changes could be due to the things happening on the Asian server. This is accepted as the most advanced play. If the Forge nerf, or the Thor changes don't make sense to you, it could be just because you are US or EU. I'm sure they look at it all as a whole. The Thor change is the ONLY thing that makes any sense whatsoever. A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. You conveniently forgot that Roach's have half the range of mauraders and move slower. They move at the same speed on average, actually. Roaches just kind of move in bursts, or at least the animation does. Their base speed is 2.25, going up to 3 if they get the speed upgrade. you cant really compare a marauder to a roach. with good micro a marauder can take out 3 or so roaches cuz of there range and concussive shell. not to mention marauders get bonus dmg vs roaches. i really cant see a reason in this change when marauders handled roaches so nicely even when they were 1 supply. now that there 2 supply marauders will have a field day with them.
Like i think me and alot of people have said, blizzard doesnt seem to understand most of the games problems extend from the Marauder, 125 hp unit with slow stim, and range, i mean really? they need an hp or damage nerf or something because its ridiculous
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Yeah the building hp nerf is a bit strange, but I'm sure there's a reason for that. As for the build time...yeah it gives an extra 10s for reaper/ling rushes. I have a hunch that the cannon nerf is more of a 2v2 issue than a 1v1 issue - correct me if I'm wrong though.
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Yes lets all force the zerg to rely on zerglings for all of T1 and force early lair before expo for fear of it being easily overrun...maybe if zerglings didnt get wtfpwned by drones then we could have some kind of survivability
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I dont make roaches anymore, im go from speedlings to fast lair into hydra or muta... 
BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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EPT
