EPTOn May 14 2010 08:33 PobTheCad wrote:
does this thor nerf make mutas better vs thor?
does this thor nerf make mutas better vs thor?
Thor nerf? Where?
Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 52
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nodq
Germany123 Posts
Thor nerf? Where? | ||
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fathead
United States158 Posts
On May 14 2010 08:33 PobTheCad wrote: does this thor nerf make mutas better vs thor? Thor didn't get nurfed they got buffed. You are the one millionth person who thought that they nurfed their splash radius. They didn't, they just decreased the size of the thor to make them easier to control/position. | ||
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dimfish
United States663 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:35 De4ngus wrote: I reaaaaly reaaallllyyy want to know who blizzard gets information from that makes them decide to do these changes. The nerfs in this patch are pretty damn ridiculous. Anyway, I'm done playing random. I started out as protoss at the beginning, and when they kept nerfing toss, I swtiched to random. After about 100 games i realized that I win mostly with terran, and now that its even better, time to switch. I think blizzard is just taking balancing advice from terrible players. That's all I can think of, really. Maybe they just need a competitive player on the balancing team, since they have no clue what they're doing. I'm going to hazard a guess that Blizzard collects all or significant parts of every replay generated over Bnet to inform their balance changes. For example, it would be really cheap to collect how many times an ability is triggered per game, or how many of some unit are trained per game, and upload that to the secret balance server so you could ask questions like: What is the average number of Roaches a ZvP winner built? If the answer is absurd, like 60 (consider that being the average over all ZvP, even when players don't always build a Roach), then Blizzard would be justified in drawing the conclusion that the Roach is either 1) overwhelmingly effective to Zerg when dealing with Protoss or 2) overpowered enough that blindly building them never hurts or 3) Roaches are so fun to play with players just make them work. Whatever conclusions you draw here are going to be solid compared to balancing off of internal testing or only reading forums or literally watching as many replays as possible. Data doesn't lie and the new Bnet is potentially a balance-data generating beast, so I'm almost certain they are making decisions this way. | ||
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encryptedamf
Sweden64 Posts
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vesicular
United States1311 Posts
On May 14 2010 08:42 fathead wrote: Thor didn't get nurfed they got buffed. You are the one millionth person who thought that they nurfed their splash radius. They didn't, they just decreased the size of the thor to make them easier to control/position. That is also a small nerf though. Smaller thors mean more of them fit in the same space as before, means AOE is more effective on them. | ||
CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
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Darpinion
United States210 Posts
On May 14 2010 08:52 cursor wrote: You have to realize that lots of the changes could be due to the things happening on the Asian server. This is accepted as the most advanced play. If the Forge nerf, or the Thor changes don't make sense to you, it could be just because you are US or EU. I'm sure they look at it all as a whole. The Thor change is the ONLY thing that makes any sense whatsoever. | ||
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hype[NZ]
Japan412 Posts
I like them with their new size, they seem a lot more manageable now, although now it's floating in mid-air when you lift it up with a medivac... | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
On May 14 2010 08:55 Darpinion wrote: The Thor change is the ONLY thing that makes any sense whatsoever. A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. | ||
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cr4ckshot
United States291 Posts
On May 14 2010 08:13 lolreaper wrote: just watched on stream nony getting crushed by zerg (alot of expos, limit fights etc), poor "weak": zergs.... One game (sample) is not statistically significant. Take a statistics course. | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
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ohN
United States1075 Posts
On May 14 2010 09:04 Zeke50100 wrote: A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. You conveniently forgot that Roach's have half the range of mauraders and move slower. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:39 UdderChaos wrote: I wish they would just make roaches a lot smaller, like the size of lings, make their cost more than half less, dmg half, every stat more than half less, 1 food and then just bring back their fast regen but with really low hitpoints. It just shows how little blizz understands the game that even if this is balanced you could implement the exact same balance change but with keeping the zerg's personality, instead of making them 2 food, why not just halve the cost dmg and health of the unit and keep it at 1 food. Because then they take up 2 larva to get what you got with one. At least with this change, I would only have to spend 1 larva on a 2-food unit. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
On May 14 2010 09:04 Zeke50100 wrote: A T1.5 Unit with 145 HP, 16 Damage per-attack, ranged, and HP regen for 1 Supply makes sense? Compare that to a T1.5 Unit with 125 HP, 10 (+10) per-attack, ranged, no HP regen, Stim and Concussives (both requiring research) for 2 Supply, or T1.5 with 80 HP, 80 Shields, 10 (+4) per-attack, ranged, Shield regen, Blink (requiring research), and anti-air for 2 Supply. I know that JUST comparing the Roach to the Marauder and Stalker is a very narrow view, but it still amazes me. Once again people compare damage which is an absolutely meaningless number in this context. Compare the DPS of a roach against a marauder. Roaches I believe do slightly more [without stim!] again non armoured and marauders win by a landslide stimmed vs armoured. HP regen is not very relevant except for burrow micro. Roaches have range 3 Stalkers have range 6 Marauders have range 6 So far, they've got good hp for short range and low DPS? Roaches, for 2 supply are clearly the worst unit, though they are cheaper. Surprisingly the marauder is 25/25 cheaper than a stalker and it is definitely the best unit of the T1.5. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On May 14 2010 09:09 ohN wrote: You conveniently forgot that Roach's have half the range of mauraders and move slower. And only get their Hp regen with a 100/100/100 Lair-tech upgrade. And they have to be immobile when regen-ing. And their rate of fire is slow as sin. | ||
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cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
I don't think it's balanced right now, because a supply change isn't the only thing Roaches needed, but I think it's better than having such a powerful 1 Supply unit. | ||
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
they don't even 1 hit scv anymore EDIT: oops maybe i didnt see the upgrade xD gotta have to look the rep brb EDIT2: nvm that was the upgrade sry im noob | ||
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