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On May 10 2010 14:09 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 13:37 Archerofaiur wrote:
Can someone explain how
no chat > Temporary chat that is later improved in patch Simple: programmer time, especially towards the end of a product's development, is very important. The term "Beta" usually refers to a feature freeze; it is supposed to be the point in development when you stop adding features so that your programmers can spend time fixing bugs to ship the game.
The only thing simple, Nicol, is the mindset that decided this game could ship without even a bare essentials chat feature. That should have been in Battlenet 2.0 from day 1 and you know it.
The kind of connection experience that a passionate unpaid fan can put together using a map editor. The kind of interactive social enviroment 1998 Starcraft1 developers managed to make on a much shorter deadline.
On May 10 2010 14:09 NicolBolas wrote:
Chat is a feature. Implementing, debugging, and shipping chat would require programmer time that probably doesn't exist at Blizzard right now. Thus, implementing it would have to come from somewhere else. So where is it going to come from?
*cough* facebook
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On May 10 2010 14:17 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 14:09 NicolBolas wrote:On May 10 2010 13:37 Archerofaiur wrote:
Can someone explain how
no chat > Temporary chat that is later improved in patch Simple: programmer time, especially towards the end of a product's development, is very important. The term "Beta" usually refers to a feature freeze; it is supposed to be the point in development when you stop adding features so that your programmers can spend time fixing bugs to ship the game. The only thing simple, Nicol, is the mindset that decided this game could ship without even a bare essentials chat feature. That should have been in Battlenet 2.0 from day 1 and you know it. The kind of connection experience that a passionate unpaid fan can put together using a map editor. The kind of interactive social enviroment 1998 Starcraft1 developers managed to make on a much shorter deadline.
You are such a goofball. Chat channels are just something you're used to, not something that's inherently good or important. So they've been trying an alternative model. Maybe you don't like it. I personally think it's ok.
If you want chat channels, say so. But don't be so goddamn ridiculous about it, man. Get some fresh air or something.
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On May 10 2010 11:57 omnigol wrote:
I have no idea why blizzard is lying about chat channels I simply want to know why. Do they have some dumb theory about decreasing harassment, or increasing the amount of advertisements, or maybe facebook is paying them money to interface through the game?
If they release chat that doesn't require facebook integration noone will use their gimp facebook chat and then they won't get their kickbacks from facebook. That's my guess anyway.
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On May 10 2010 14:57 Munashiimaru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 11:57 omnigol wrote:
I have no idea why blizzard is lying about chat channels I simply want to know why. Do they have some dumb theory about decreasing harassment, or increasing the amount of advertisements, or maybe facebook is paying them money to interface through the game? If they release chat that doesn't require facebook integration noone will use their gimp facebook chat and then they won't get their kickbacks from facebook. That's my guess anyway.
I'd call you cynical but I've really lost all hope in developer's efforts to make a good game instead of making a game that makes a big buck.
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On May 10 2010 14:09 NicolBolas wrote:Half-assed? Didn't someone just make a chat room out of an RTS's map editor in a couple of hours? I'm pretty sure Blizzard used 3 entire asses in this editor  As Han Solo once said, "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts."
I can make a dinner with a slipper, so what? It doesn't make it a good instrument for that
And I have no idea why you marked out "chat room" and "map editor" in your post o_O You make it sound like he coded chat functionality from nothing lol. And it isn't simply a "map editor" either.
If you wish to see arguments why it's half-assed I've already pointed a thread where the modder with decade experience has described it's major shortcomings.
I don't know. I don't even know that it will be "outstanding" by any particular standard. However, they have said on several occasions that they don't want to do B.Net 1.0 style chat.
Yet, in your previous post you've presented your opinion as if you know for sure that chat rooms are gonna be something out of this world, cause it's something made by Blizzard.
And what you describe as "B.net 1.0 style chat" is the basic form of public chat functionality, variations of which are used everywhere. People ask you to describe what your B.net 2.0 chat rooms are gonna be, because there's no way to improve on that without somehow completely revolutionizing concept. So either, they won't have chat rooms at all, or they will have "B.net 1.0 style chat" with some specific features. The thing is, there's no features that couldn't be brought with small patches after release.
Simple: programmer time, especially towards the end of a product's development, is very important. The term "Beta" usually refers to a feature freeze; it is supposed to be the point in development when you stop adding features so that your programmers can spend time fixing bugs to ship the game.
Chat is a feature. Implementing, debugging, and shipping chat would require programmer time that probably doesn't exist at Blizzard right now. Thus, implementing it would have to come from somewhere else. So where is it going to come from?
From facebook integration efforts obviously! lol
They already have chat rooms implemented in two variations - game lobby and that one for friends only. Implementing another proper variation of chat rooms won't take so much more effort than it took for OP to make his joke. How much time it took for him you said? That's right.
Do you speak for all of Blizzard's customers? Do you know that they want chat more than Facebook integration?
Personally, I don't care for either. I find "chat" to be the lowest form of human-to-human communication, and I have nothing but scorn for Facebook and that sort of crap. However, Facebook is quite popular, particularly with younger players. I imagine that Facebook integration is more important to them than chat.
They push this game as the e-sport discipline. They fight with existing e-sport organization for the right to shape future of the Starcraft. And meanwhile they give facebook integration higher priority over Private chat rooms, which are at the core of e-sport social activity (organizing all kinds of tourneys, clan meetings - that lowest form of human-to-human communication, you know).
That's a problem.
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Eventually, once people figure out how to use it adeptly, the map editor will be used to create a physical incarnation of God
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On May 10 2010 08:22 Nytefish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 08:16 Marradron wrote:You could chat before in a game too ....  still looks nice. Not too usefull but still nice to show how lazy blizzard was. It's not that they're too lazy to do it, it's just for some peverse reason they think the negatives of chat rooms are so severe it's not even worth implementing it in the beta.
Yep, I loved Browder's response to the chat room issue. He basically said "we know what the players want better than the players do." Great stuff.
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On May 10 2010 15:43 TheAntZ wrote:
Eventually, once people figure out how to use it adeptly, the map editor will be used to create a physical incarnation of God
No less. It's actually possible that someone at Blizzard have found Holy Grail and hid it somewhere in the Data Editor. It made it only harder to find, though =<
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On May 10 2010 09:39 Dox wrote:
Sure is a lot of people in this thread who got very excited at the idea of joining a custom game just to sit around and chat... You can already do that.
Chat channels will come eventually, in the meantime, enjoy the game. I'd much rather they spend their time balancing and releasing the game instead of focusing on something we can do via iRC/Party Chat/1:1 Conversation/Custom Games/MSN/Forums/a million other ways.
Obviously implementing chat channels requires more than just taking some old technology and copy/pasting it into a new product; they need artists to redesign the battle.net interface to accommodate for the new icons, frames, some internal testing, blah blah blah.
Hi.
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Why not make a custom game, invite people you want to chat with ,or make it public, and use the lobby chat. If you really want to chat with multiple people while on Battle.Net.
You would also be a moderator of your "channel" as a host and could kick people. I don't know what the Limit per game is and also don't know if that's sufficient for you mass-chat-needs.
Edit: Idea is not to start the game, if that for some reason wasn't clear.
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It's not that Blizzard can't do it, they say they dont want to do it, get your facts straight pls.
They will add a group/Forum feature (with chat?) like on facebook / Studivz.
And I dont know why everyone wants chat channels, i NEVER saw sth interesting in the public chats.
And of course Blizzard wants to maximize their money, that's ALWAYS the goal for a firm.
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Half-assed? Didn't someone just make a chat room out of an RTS's map editor in a couple of hours? I'm pretty sure Blizzard used 3 entire asses in this editor
I have to go with inraged here. The map editor is very powerful, but it is a far cry from being easy to use. There are a lot of points in the link he provided that are very relevant - such as how difficult is it to find anything in the data editor. The trigger editor, however, is pretty well organized, although I personally would find it easier if it were a simple galaxy script IDE instead of the GUI nonsense.
However, this is beta, and the map editor is clearly beta too. I have hopes that some of the problems with the map editor will be resolved in due time.
Chat, however, has no excuse for not being included in beta - much less at release.
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Let this thread be a message to Blizzard. Implement chat rooms now.
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On May 10 2010 21:09 Daxten wrote:
And of course Blizzard wants to maximize their money, that's ALWAYS the goal for a firm.
God I hate this view of companies. Why should greed be the only goal of a company? Yes, as a publicly-traded corporation, Activision has a responsibility to its shareholders to try to make a return on their investment. But if the law treats corporations as people, why shouldn't we treat them as people and attribute more than one goal to them? Why not pride and craftsmanship?
I don't know about you, but when I make something, money is often the last thing on my mind. Even when I am being paid by a client, I want to make something as good as I can. I don't take shortcuts just because I'd make more money in less time by doing so. And I am sure that most of the people working on SC2 have that same sense of craftsmanship, of pride in what you are making.
Letting corporations off the hook with the excuse, "Oh, they're just trying to save a buck," is no better than letting a spoiled brat get away with punching his sister because "Oh, he's a boy, and that's just what they do."
We can, and should, expect more.
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I don't use facebook, I will never use facebook, and I don't want to feel forced to use some outside resource to socialize in a game I plan on purchasing.
Its good to see a community member already goofing around on work arounds to blizzards daft stance on chat channels. I hope this sort of thing continues especially if on release blizzard holds to their stance on not having in game chat.
I think they will have chat though, their forums are rife with complaints/suggestions about it and if anything WoW has taught them that the purely social aspect of a game can make it bigger and huger than the awesomeness of the game itself. So Im hopeful at least for now.
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Blizzard are planning on making a "messenger" based on RealID for outside games,but still have the ability to chat across games like it currently has.(Talk to WoW players from SC2 is working fine)
They will probably introduce chat rooms soon enough.
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The game just seems really.. lonely without chat.
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EPT
