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It's happening to me right now, I have 17 hydras 9 overlords and 1 overseer and 1 worker (Witch is holding freaking minerals that I can't turn it in or I would have used it to buy a mutalisk from a roaming larva well they were alive with no base!) with 98 minerals and 184 gas. A spire and an evo chamber and that's it.
In my attack on him and well trying to defend my last base/buildings from his full on attack I lost the remaining mutalisks that I had (And I messed up in the start pretty bad so I had to make due with what I could afford, And in that situation I didn't have the extra larvas or money/gas to just leave flying aa units sitting around/hiding well he went all out on my base with 50% of my units out for the "just incase he ran a building into the corner of a map where I can't reach it because he wants to be a noob"
But I did get hydras for flying in general and overlords to see on high points so I guess the map is partly to blame for this situation)
I managed to kill everything he had except his command center well defending my base in the very end, I didn't run to random places with drones and build gas chambers or anything I actually took his stuff out and saved some buildings in my original base.
And the fact that I was super gimped in the start and really outplayed him in the end overall well having the ability to see high spots from my overlords and having a bunch of hydras that can hit air well he has nothing left for units and only a CC hiding in the corner of the map pisses me off. (If only overlords could attack or overseers lol.)
Oh and not to mention he is now afk sleeping well I just woke up, And Blizzard doesn't seem to have anything for kicking afk players from SC2 games since it's now been quite a few hours... Freaking stupid.
So now he doesn't even have to waste his time to win a game that he really lost just because he can hide in the corner of the map and abuse a mechanic well he sleeps, I think if that mechanic is going to be in the game and be able to be abused like that at least make them have to stay in the game doing stuff to outlast you not just afk sleep for the win.
Blizzard could do something like each pause lasts 5 minutes for the 3 you have per game witch won't count towards AFK time and after 5 minutes of doing nothing well not paused in game you get AFK kicked from the match so that way at least they would have to waste there time with you if they wanted to try and win that way, And I know someone could setup an auto clicker or something like that not to go AFK but Blizzard can detect that pretty easy if they actually use a decent security system in SC2 witch could lead to an account ban, And who would want the chance there hole Battle.net account could get banned just for one win?
And because I'm being so stubborn in this situation I used creep tumors to cover the entire map with creep and even though he can no longer land any place on the map (Not to mention I have an overload on auto follow) but I also have all my hydras patrolling every area they can, I'm also working on using the creep tumors to fill up every hex square in the map right now for the hell of it since I have loads of free time to do nothing now...
I swear one of these things are going to have to happen for me to leave this match.
1.Blizzard will have to close the game on both of us.
2.My internet will have to go out.
3.He will wake up and be bored of waiting since he literally has no options now and I'm not leaving and he will surrender.
Soooooo the afk war begins.
P.S.
The guy afk is named Joop and I figured with all this free time he gave me because Blizzard allows this afk bs to happen that I'd make a picture in game for him.
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/Azoulas/Joop.jpg
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Terrans who pull this cowardly bullshit should have their sc2 account revoked. It is completely bad mannered. The whole point of the beta is to play, not to prevent others from playing. There should be a mutual draw UI action, but while blizzard is still working on that incredibly difficult challenge, terrans who get pwned should just take the loss and move on rather than cowering in the corner.
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On May 17 2010 03:22 Zealotdriver wrote:
Terrans who pull this cowardly bullshit should have their sc2 account revoked. It is completely bad mannered. The whole point of the beta is to play, not to prevent others from playing. There should be a mutual draw UI action, but while blizzard is still working on that incredibly difficult challenge, terrans who get pwned should just take the loss and move on rather than cowering in the corner.
If you arent in the position to beat them , why should they leave because you cant win and they cant lose?
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why couldn't blizzard just add auto-income?
like after 20mins into the game you start getting like 50 minerals a minute by default?
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That's a pretty bad suggestion, as it can lead to stalemates too.
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On May 17 2010 03:24 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 03:22 Zealotdriver wrote:
Terrans who pull this cowardly bullshit should have their sc2 account revoked. It is completely bad mannered. The whole point of the beta is to play, not to prevent others from playing. There should be a mutual draw UI action, but while blizzard is still working on that incredibly difficult challenge, terrans who get pwned should just take the loss and move on rather than cowering in the corner. If you arent in the position to beat them , why should they leave because you cant win and they cant lose?
I don't think they "need" to leave but they should have good sportsmanship and give the game up if the other player has an army and buildings and map control and the Tarren only has one building (Witch their hiding in the corner of a map) and nothing else or any chance at coming back or building anything new, Even though the other player can't make a flying unit to kill there one building the other player is the only person with units left (And the units I had were at least able to attack air they just couldn't fly) so if it came down to it this is what would happen, The Tarren losses because he can't win with anything he has (outside of the afk forever) in hopes the other person gives up and surrenders, Where as the other person can't lose unless he kills his own stuff or quits the game. So the other person can't lose outside of self destruction or surrendering where as the Tarren has no chance to win or do anything at all outside of prolonging the game (well going afk more than likely) in hopes of a win.
So yes the Tarren did force a stalemate/draw (From abusing a mechanic, Witch truely doesn't happen often but it's not hard to do if you try most people just don't) but overall in that specific situation I think the other person should get credit for the win since the Tarren had no in game way of winning outside of a forced surrender.
You could also think of it this way it's pretty much a fight of races to destroy the other races and take over the area, When you have no army left and no way of winning and you're just flying off to the side well they still have something for buildings and units you already lost the war since you have nothing you can do to fight back and they control the entire map/area. Though I know that's not how it goes since it's "Destroy all enemy buildings" by game rules but thats just one of the ways I look at it.
And if Blizzard doesn't want to do anything about the Tarren lift-off to the outside of a map for forced stalemate because those seem to be the most common time it happens that's fine with me but they could at least implement a AFK/Auto kick system for games so on that odd occasion it does happen the Tarren player can't win by just going to sleep well afk.
I also disagree to them adding an agreed draw system for ranked games but they should add a forced draw system since Tarren lift-off isn't the only stalemate that can happen even though it is by far the most common.
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Ive gg'd over losing my first Zealot.
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its a problem with the maps, not the lifting ability
terran couldnt hide like this with bw maps, so it was never a problem of the mechanic
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On May 17 2010 04:26 andeh wrote:
its a problem with the maps, not the lifting ability
terran couldnt hide like this with bw maps, so it was never a problem of the mechanic
The mechanic in it's own is fine in my opinion but in that situation with the maps we are given for what their using it for they are abusing it so it then becomes a problem with that mechanic.
They don't need a debuff on lift-off simply add auto-kick afk timers (Witch would help with plenty of other situations as well) and find a good way to implement a forced draw system. (They should not add an agreed draw system for ranked games)
I don't think Blizzard needs to go crazy and do any major changes to the games units or buildings because of a possibility of a stalemates since they rarely happen unless someone is actually trying for it, But they should still take it into consideration for the rare amount it does happen and make solutions for it. (Even finding solutions to a rare problem is still bettering the game, It's not like they don't have the money or income to do it)
Think about it, in my situation why should I have a take a loss on my record and - points (I know right now it's beta so it doesn't matter) but just because I got unlucky (And I messed up in the start like a noob, forcing me into one base by the time he did a full on attack at me, And in that situation and his map control at the time I didn't have the units or extra resources to try and expand yet) and stuck in that situation because he aimed for it when I did a tech switch on him and started eating his base. It's not like he had any options to win or even kill anything of mine or make anything at all but I had full map control and units that can hit air and more, Now if he would have made a building on an outer island (Witch there wasn't any on this map) and had nothing left but a pylon I would expect him to gg because in a sportsmanship manner he would know it was my game, But if he didn't want to and me not wanting to surrender because I consider that my game (And I have no problem giving someone a gg/surrender if I know it was there win as I've done before) I don't want to have to deal with a - score and - wins on my record for something stupid and rare like that.
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On May 17 2010 03:24 arb wrote:
If you arent in the position to beat them , why should they leave because you cant win and they cant lose?
This is a war game, if in war the enemy runs away and you still have soldiers in the battle field you win. If you float your buildings away and have no army it should count as surrendering.
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Simple solution: if you sense that there might be a weak counterattack, just hide a probe with at least 400 minerals left, and when he starts floating buildings with no units, rebuild and win, simple :>.
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On May 17 2010 05:47 ProoM wrote:
Simple solution: if you sense that there might be a weak counterattack, just hide a probe with at least 400 minerals left, and when he starts floating buildings with no units, rebuild and win, simple :>.
That's assuming that in any situation you have the ability to have one less gatherer being used and hidden and 400 minerals unused.
Stuff can change very fast as you should know if you play the game and even when you "think" a counter attack might be coming you may not have time to build up to 400 extra minerals not to mention in some situations (Really as an overall) every mineral counts as well as every gatherer for a constant income. And having that amount of unused minerals could be the difference in winning or losing a game.
I get what you're saying but thats really not reasonable at all, That was kinda like the "Tech up to air units and hide one/some so you can probably lose the game, but for that just in case you don't lose the game for being an idiot and teching air to hide them for that very low possibility it happens"
So for how uncommon (though probably more common then you might think) it is to get a stalemate Tarren flying building game it would be very silly and stupid to try saying tech and hide air or save 400 minerals and hide a worker as the solution, Because honestly if you did that vs every Tarren you played you would probably lose. And really to just keep 400 minerals floating or keeping unused air units can easily be the difference in a lost or won game.
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On May 17 2010 05:34 Pablols wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2010 03:24 arb wrote:
If you arent in the position to beat them , why should they leave because you cant win and they cant lose? This is a war game, if in war the enemy runs away and you still have soldiers in the battle field you win. If you float your buildings away and have no army it should count as surrendering.
However, in real war you cant float your command center to the corner of the country and still win because you outlasted your opponent.
We can call this a war of attrition where neither side can win.
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imo these types of games aren't worth it
I rather get the loss and play more games than waiting it out
this is just the beta after all
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On May 17 2010 06:50 DrivE wrote:
imo these types of games aren't worth it
I rather get the loss and play more games than waiting it out
this is just the beta after all
Yes this is the Beta witch is why it didn't bother me too much since they have the beta for people to bring stuff like this up for them to fix it.
But I'd rather have them fix this issue now so when the game is out it won't happen and mess with my score for a stupid reason.
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The issue here is that a "vote for draw game" option doesn't exist for some reason.
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On May 13 2010 09:24 Chriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 05:11 DarQraven wrote:
Terrans floating off forcing a draw is the SC2 equivalent of a losing tennis player calling for an indefinite time-out, therefore not letting his opponent score the winning point and ending the game.
"But he can't score because I'm calling timeout, therefore, he can't win! DRAW!" I'd say its more the equivalent of a stalemate in chess, the king is trapped, and cannot make a move, however in his current spot he is not threatened. Similarly, the last unit the terran has is trapped, and cannot move, but is unthreatened in its current spot. Thus, it should be a draw.
I'm not too familiar with chess tournament rules, but the way you're describing it to me now, that particular draw situation sounds equally unwarranted as what is going on with Terran lifting in SC2.
So, the king is cornered and literally cannot move without losing the game, yet simply because the actual taking of the king has not happened and cannot happen because of some other rule (which was probably never designed for this purpose anyway), it's a draw?
How does that even work in a game situation? It's one player's turn, yet the rules forbid him from endangering his own king, therefore he cannot make a move without breaking a rule and losing. So, the player just sits there and waits until the jury/audience get bored and call draw?
The way I see these situations is this:
Two men have a fight to the death on top of a skyscaper. One man succeeds in kicking the other one over the edge. This unfortunate soul manages to grab hold of a flagpole and hangs there, 40 stories above hard concrete. The man still standing has no intention of saving him.
Question 1: Is this man clinically dead? No.
Question 2: Does this man have any chance whatsoever to win the fight or even survive his fall when he eventually has to let go? No.
Question 3: Can we therefore see this man as, for all intents and purposes, dead and therefore the loser? Certainly.
What you and others are suggesting is that this fight should actually be called a draw, because the man in question is not dead yet, even though he is hanging 40 stories above certain death and HAS to let go at some point.
It's just ridiculous.
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What you and others are suggesting is that this fight should actually be called a draw, because the man in question is not dead yet, even though he is hanging 40 stories above certain death and HAS to let go at some point.
It's just ridiculous.
The difference is, you DON'T have to move your Command Center somewhere that your enemy can attack it...
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On May 17 2010 09:05 Jokey665 wrote:Show nested quote +What you and others are suggesting is that this fight should actually be called a draw, because the man in question is not dead yet, even though he is hanging 40 stories above certain death and HAS to let go at some point.
It's just ridiculous. The difference is, you DON'T have to move your Command Center somewhere that your enemy can attack it...
Exactly, and that is precisely what is wrong with the chess analogy that everyone is so keen on making.
A Terran lifting off just before they lose and floating out of range would not be comparable to a chess stalemate in any way. It would be comparable to a chess player refusing to make a move once he saw he'd lost.
Would you honestly declare a situation where one player pouted and refused to make the losing move a draw?
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I agree. A draw mechanic needs to be put in place.
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EPT
