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On June 30 2010 06:48 mass_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2010 05:20 anarkin wrote:
This article is just makes no sense. period true all I see is whine whine whine whine qq qq qq qq whine more comparing 2 different games is nonsense.
I was under the impression every user on these forums has the right to his or hers opinion no matter what, but then again if you go against MiR and the common rules of this forum you are indeed on deep ass water (Insert some Samuel L Jackson rant).
2 games 2 functions and 2 different "how to play" would be quite boring with BW but hawt graphics. Sc2 brings the almost best from BW with some new fun things to explore.
As we see BW today is something we will have to wait for, 10 years is a long long time for a game to develop so heres for 10 years of patching of SC2!
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Looking back is nice, its funny how much this game has evolved in the short months it was up. We now know to fight mutas with thors, not vikings, pheonix has a moving shot, although nony showed us this was unneccesary and hellion control is beautiful when done right. also, we have accepted the units that we got finally, we just want fixes to them, and pray new units in comming expansions are viable.
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On April 27 2010 08:32 LaLuSh wrote:
The consequences of Moving Shot – an illustrative comparison.
Imagine the two following different but yet similar scenarios.
Scenario 1: You’ve got 3 corsairs and one canon guarding your mineral line in Brood War. Your opponent flies in with 8 mutalisks, and notices your templar archives (applicable to any important building) is out of place and starts picking away at it.
Scenario 2: You’ve got 3 phoenixes and one canon guarding your mineral line in Starcraft 2. Your opponent flies in with 8 mutalisks and notices your stargate is slightly out of place and starts picking away at it.
I did not read all pages of comments from everyone however I find the main difference between the sair and the phoenix is the splash phoenixes do 10 dmg (5x2attacks).
So in these examples 3 phoenixes each attack and deal 30 damage 1 of the mutas 120 health. (the muta will obviously regenerate some health while the phonenixes are hitting and running and which will be disregarded in this example) Assuming every time you swing around to engage the mutas you hit the same one and the cannon you have has managed to hit the same muta twice your phonenixes will all fire 3 times and muta will fall. This is obviously more difficult then it seems as the mutas are in a ball.
Now using the sairs in the example 3 sairs would do a total of 15 damage. And just like with the phoenixes chances of you hitting the muta you attacked the last time are slim to none.... O wait a second even if you attack a different muta you still hit the previous one. In the video provided you may notice that the phoneixes did kill a muta but the moment the sairs killed a muta every other muta quickly followed since they were all getting hit everytime.
The proper way to micro the mutas in the sc1 example is as follows: Don't stack your mutas. Stacking air units against a unit that has a small splash radius is the worst thing you can do especially if the unit is faster than you.
As far as the cannons go you are only against 1 spread the mutas out fly past the stargate then attack it or the sairs if there happens to be one that gets stuck in the middle now you are takeing a little more from the cannons but the sairs aren't doing nearly the damage they were.
Wondering on a side note if anyone here has played micro tournament. One of the battles is 6 mutas vs 4 sairs. And it is a pretty even fight. so 8 mutas vs 3 sairs and cannon should end about the same if you do it right only difference is in this fight 1 of your units can't move which will limit the mobility of the sairs.
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When ever i read a post Lalush makes i feel enlightened he spends so much time and effort into his writing to give you the most information and what he feels should be addressed im really glad to have read this and like usual its an eye opener Lalush is an asset to the TL forums .
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Very interesting read. You obviously put a lot of thought and research into this!
I believe this is the reason Terran is still doing relatively well after all the nerfs. Their units are the most micro-able IMHO.
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Thanks for pumping a year old thread with absolutely nothing new to contribute. The warning tag is there for a reason.
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On March 12 2011 17:05 Zerkaszhan wrote:
When ever i read a post Lalush makes i feel enlightened he spends so much time and effort into his writing to give you the most information and what he feels should be addressed im really glad to have read this and like usual its an eye opener Lalush is an asset to the TL forums .
This would have been better suited as a PM to him instead of bumping a thread which will inevitably cause whining and more SC:BW/SC2 comparisons about "difficulty".
Thanks a lot :/
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Marines have moving shot in the old fashion sense of hte word.. You just have to look at the right places.
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a very nice read, you know this game to the bone :o
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They need to remove the auto shot they added to Phoenix and add in a zero time shot so you at least need to do the stutter step shooting for phoenix Right now you just move them around it's really annoying.
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On April 28 2010 03:05 bendez wrote:Are there any real hardcore true veteran of the veteran out there who prefers warcraft 2 over the noob friendly starcraft 1? I'm just sayin 
Warcraft 2 is terribly balanced, has very little strategy, no timings, little micro tricks, and a small fraction of the mechanics and strategy that made BW a great game.
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On April 21 2011 00:03 chenchen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 03:05 bendez wrote:Are there any real hardcore true veteran of the veteran out there who prefers warcraft 2 over the noob friendly starcraft 1? I'm just sayin Warcraft 2 is terribly balanced, has very little strategy, no timings, little micro tricks, and a small fraction of the mechanics and strategy that made BW a great game.
You are terribly uninformed. War2 has extremly hard mechanics and a great emphasis on positioning / micro. Macro is really hard too because the game is so fast paced that you can't do everything at the same time.
The only thing true in your post is that orc is way better than human.
You can find some good FPVOD on youtube so please educate yourself.
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The game is fine as it is imo . This isn't BW and i'm 200% Blizzard will never do something to make it more BW-esque. If you like BW mechanics more just go play BW.
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I haven't played BW enough to really notice this, but anything that gives us a chance to turn the battle with superior micro seems like a good change to m e.
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Croatia9571 Posts
On April 21 2011 00:17 Sated wrote:
Pretty much this: "If you like BW mechanics more just go play BW."
The games are not the same and they're not intended to be the same. If you're not having fun playing SC2 then you shouldn't be playing it, you should be playing something that you do have fun playing. That's why people play videogames, right? For fun? RIGHT?
I think this post should be stickied on top of every BW vs SC2 thread.
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damn it! i thought i had already read this and i did...a year ago.
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Isn't this the post that Blizzard interpreted completely wrong and ended up destroying the dynamic between mutalisks and phoenixes?
In Broodwar if zerg made mutalisks and toss made corsairs the mutalisks weren't completely useless as long as they get scourge for support.
But now in SC2 phoenixes don't have a moving shot but automatically shoot as they move, which I don't think is what LaLush wanted. Now if you get mutalisks and phoenix comes out mutalisks become a completely wasted unit no amount of micro will save them. Phoenixes are faster than mutalisks and can kite them infinitely and safely, regardless of how many mutas vs phoenix there are.
If the phoenix is going to continue having this auto-shot move command they should have their speed lowered to that of the mutalisk, or buff mutalisk speed to that of a phoenix so at least the mutalisk has a chance to run away instead of completely being dominated in any engagement.
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Any reason this thread was necro'd? I just read the article today and I really liked it, but it is from last year so....yeah.
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Maybe you shouldn't randomly bump a 10 month old thread unless you have something new to bring to the table.
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EPT
