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For those of you who haven't already seen it, I highly recommend you guys check out the article about TeamLiquid visiting Blizzard HQ. Lots of awesome information there. Link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121072
However, I was extremely disappointed when I read the following part:
Server isolation and its effect on the growth of ESPORTS: It will be definitely something that will be look at in the future, but at the moment there are no plans to allow people to access different servers with the same key due to lag and latency issues.
To me, this is simply game breaking. For those who are unaware, the way that the amateur WC3 and Starcraft communities have developed, Americans, Europeans, and Asian players all participating in the same leagues are very common. Team based leagues will feature teams from all over the place, and solo leagues are all the same.
More specifically, the American Warcraft 3 scene is very small when compared to Europe and Asia. The few American players that do compete at a high level practice almost entirely with Europeans and Asian players. Not having the ability to seamlessly connect to Europe or Asia will have a tragic impact on the scenes of each region. With much fewer players to compete against, each scene becomes increasingly stale.
It is certainly possible to fix this situation in its current state, but it is costly. Each league level player would essentially need to buy one copy of each game. Though I myself would be willing to do this given no other choice, I am sure many would not be so compliant. $150+ for a new game is unappealing.
I admit that so far I am very pleased with the current state of Battle.net2.0. It does an excellent job at fixing many of the problems that were present in both Warcraft 3 and Brood War. The match making system is solid. I believe that Blizzard has succeeded in creating a competitive atmosphere which almost entirely eliminates the need for LAN play. However, moves like this provide the community with a very important reason to develop alternatives. I for one oppose such things, as I believe they split the community. There are of course cases where such things do a lot of good for the community, however, such as ICCUP. Nonetheless, I dream of a Starcraft 2 scene where everyone is able to play on Battle.net. I would love to have a complete competitive scene where I can be poised to chat to my casual friends as well as my league team mates.
Forcing the segregation of the servers is simply too damaging to the scene and it needs to change. If the issue is the possibility of people sharing keys for the sake of saving money, I think a better solution would be a global verification process. I feel as though there are numerous ways to fix any issue that Blizzard could possibly have with people being able to freely switch between servers.
I admit that before reading the article, I was very relaxed about this issue. I had assumed that Blizzard would pull through in the end, but hearing an official statement regarding it has made me very worried. I know that Blizzard reads these boards, so I hope that they are also able to read this.
What are your guy's thoughts on this issue? Its a very big deal to me, and I'd assume the same holds true for many of the hardcore players here.
Poll: Do you support Blizzard's decision?No (559) 96% Yes (23) 4% 582 total votes Your vote: Do you support Blizzard's decision? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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Blizzard, if this is Bnet 2.0, then why are you going backwards? If you REALLY wanted SC2 to be an e-sport, you would worry about this much more than achievements.
The competitive community WILL rebel, and it will be YOUR doing.
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that brings my piss to a boil
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This is the route the majority of games of going now, for the last few years to be exact, but yeah, it sucks.
It's not just an SC2 thing.
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United States24674 Posts
It's essentially asking for people to figure out ways to make sc2 playable on private servers or lans... I mean you can't come up with a better excuse than this...
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I hope they change their minds. Maybe someone can figure out a hack to get on the other servers? One of the great things about poker is that you get to play with germans, euros, americans, ect. I know pokerstars italy has to have their own site but let's ignore that for the sake of my analogy. =)
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Woah... I thought it was just like this for the beta.
It would be unspeakably terrible if it doesn't change upon the actual release... It's annoying now how the tournaments are separate and you can't play with people from other severs but if it stays that way... ugh.
I mean maybe they could compromise and have the ladder seasons be just with people in your region but custom games can be played with anyone.
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This would be terrible :/
Separating the community is the one thing Blizzard SHOULDN'T do.
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They won't change it. They started it with WoW, and there doing it for Diablo 3.
There has been plenty of debate about this topic with WoW, and they never budged.
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This is a retarded move by blizzard.
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On April 24 2010 12:54 FragKrag wrote:
This would be terrible :/
Separating the community is the one thing Blizzard SHOULDN'T do.
Exactly. Don't give us BS about uniting the community and then do this. If iccup can have global near-LAN latency, wtf is preventing you, with your 30 trillion dollars from doing it? Pathetic.
And Pardo is an arrogant moron.
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On April 24 2010 12:52 micronesia wrote:
It's essentially asking for people to figure out ways to make sc2 playable on private servers or lans... I mean you can't come up with a better excuse than this...
Absolutely agree. They should definitely have an international server with lan latency a la iCCup. It doesn't have to work for ladder - so as long as you can play custom games with anyone in the world, then I will be happy.
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I'm just going to lol @ the people who actually believed they gave a rat's ass about a united community.
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I'm guessing it will only be this way for release and rectified in the future when bnet 2.0 settles down and matures. To me this reeks of them not being confident in their new server structures to handle the load of the incoming player base.
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Yea this is a horrible idea. It will be very detrimental to the development of SC2 if players from different servers aren't able to interact with one another in order to share and develop new strategies.
Also, not everyone has shitty internet connection. I have been able to play games with people from Asia with minimal lag. Blizzard could simply just implement a filter that will only pair people up with others to reduce lag. Also, I'm not sure how ICCUP works but you can play with people from different continents with pretty minimal lag.
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oh all of a sudden im not some heretic preaching about how blizzard has no intrest in esports besides the monetary value that it feels exists. It doesnt have any, anyone in the scene will tell you they put WAY more money into esports than they ever get back, however it doesnt matter, the reason blizzard RTS games are so famous doesnt matter to them, they are more interested in making sure chinese and brazillians cant pirate their games.
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I don't get the "lag and latency issues". Couldn't Blizzard just pair up people from the same area (US, EU, Asia) during random match making? Then if you choose to play someone from a different region, it would be at your own risk.
Or do they want pro players to fish out money from their wallets so they can buy 3 copies of SC2.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Good news for me.
EG going to sit pretty well on that NA server I'd think.
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I don't see what they can gain from this, all I see is what the community loses.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . I really hope a lot more thought gets put into this decision, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. Does this mean i cant download maps/products from European/Asian Bnet either? Yikes.
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between lack of lan support and cracking down on private ladders, this is gonna hurt starcraft and esports so much
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I really hope they change this 
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Guy's, you need to realize that this isn't a bad decision on Blizz part that they're completely ignorant about, it's just that it's physically impossible to implement cross continent play the way modern multiplayer works.
It's not a "step back" from old bnet, it's simply the way it's set up now. R1CH posted an article way back about how old bnet used to be peer 2 peer connections; this was why no one ever knew who really disconnected because you and your opponent were directly connected to each other. THAT was an ooooooooolllllddd school online play mechanic, NO ONE does that anymore.
Now, all online games operate the same way as sc2. Players connect to a SERVER. Counterstrike, MW2, you name it, they all operate with the players connecting to a central hosting server. This is why you don't jump on CS one night and connect to a server in China, it would just be way too damn laggy. At the very least, in FPS games, servers have the advantage in that they are hosted privately, not the game company itself. I can go out and buy a server and host a CS server on it myself. Not with SC2 the way it stands now. Blizzard is already undertaking a huge feat and major cost investment by personally hosting all its servers.
The only solution to the problem would be to allow privatization of the game servers, like the FPS world. Only this would mean money lost for Blizz and their whole huge server investment would be for nothing and their bnet development investment would be for nothing, as players will guaranteed choose the private servers with the lowest latency.
Blizz is backed into a corner. It can't have the best esports setup AND have the most profit at the same time. It can only do one or the other. Can you guess what they would choose?
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At least have some kind of international mode or option, for tourneys, if you don't make it a widespread thing. (like within proleague or something)
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On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . Hopefully this gets fixed, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past.
agreed but i dont get why blizzard quotes lag lag lag over and over as the main reason to seperate servers.... many games handle the distance between regions quite well, SC1 with a few modifications handles lag between distance quite well...
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Blizzard is doing so many things wrong... It's so easy to make a lobby, channels, CHOICES. CHOICES FFS.
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I'm pretty upset I won't be able to play with friends from europe. This makes no sense western europe to north america really has no lag.
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i can see two possible upsides with this... one is that it creates smaller communities and gives you a sense that you can get to the top much easier than having to take on the whole world at once. i also never liked international teams of the scale that covered multiple timezones and made it hard for the people to get together for events or practice, and regarding esports even things such as team houses, lans etc. the second advantage i can see is that big events, where players from all servers get to compete against each other will be a lot more unpredictable, because separated servers dont allow for people to know "all of their enemies" very well and creates more excitement/tension/uncertainty etc. it can also lead to competition between the servers themselves additionally to teams and players (i hope that it doesnt go overboard with the hostility. in the end we're all starcraft players!! but some of it cant be harmful imo).
the downside of course is that much of the starcraft 2 player base is coming from wc3 and scbw and especially bw is a very close nit community... we have international, overseas friends, and teams, and events, ladders, leagues and know these things and people for years. it kind of sucks to be forcefully separated from them like this until you get a second copy of sc2 to play on another server.
also, they (blizzard) must be really careful that the scenes they create with this arent too small and then proceed to die out. that could potentially be harmful. but i guess it is up to the people to make their server-scene alive. eu seems to have had a headstart, but team eg still dominated team liquid in the end. 
im not sure which decision feels better than the other. i can see good things and bad things with both. id like to have both, but thats not possible it seems.
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Rather than having servers that you can switch too. It would be nice if they find out how they can make one server that is lag-free(iccup like).
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really disappointed with this choice, hopefully a 3rd party server will pop up soon
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On April 24 2010 13:03 KiF1rE wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . Hopefully this gets fixed, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. agreed but i dont get why blizzard quotes lag lag lag over and over as the main reason to seperate servers.... many games handle the distance between regions quite well, SC1 with a few modifications handles lag between distance quite well...
SC1 does not operate at all like SC2 multiplayer. There are no modern games that can handle latency cross continents.
Pull up any modern FPS game and connect across the globe. Won't work.
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Personally I registered under the EU server for the SC2 beta even though I live in the US because I knew the competition would be better with more former BW/WC3 players there. The latency has been fine probably 90% of the time, with the other 10% I suspect my network was having troubles. This news is extremely disappointing and strikes me as both a way of Blizzard covering their own ass if reviewers play games between continents and experience lag or a money grubbing attempt since serious players will probably end up having to buy keys for multiple realms (...and I don't even want to think about buying multiple keys for the expansions too...)
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99% of casuals won't care, but the 1% that is TL should be outraged! How will I be able to face koreans when I'm up at 6 am in the morning because I drank too many Dews. UNACCEPTABLE!
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On April 24 2010 13:06 Trap wrote: serious players will probably end up having to buy keys for multiple realms (...and I don't even want to think about buying multiple keys for the expansions too...)
lolol this is exactly what's coming too.
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Blizzard has stated in the past that there will be pro leagues above Platinum in the future, right?
Currently, we don't know anything about the options above Platinum. Maybe a professional league will allow for global competition?
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This is bnet 0.5, not bnet 2, please no one fool yourselves =/
dumbest move in a while by an RTS company. Almost on the level of EA stupidity.
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b/c of lag and latency that makes sense
but also it said to see such isolation
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i thought it was a good idea, albeit slightly inconvenient, to have segregated servers during beta as we'd be able to see different strategic trends between the servers but segregating servers at release kind of sucks. i'd imagine this will segregate the community pretty severely.
also, we would never be able to play with people we used to SC with which SUCKS.
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HON handles this perfectly letting you select which servers you are willing to play on from a map before you enter matchmaking. Blizzard is rich as shit cmon now.
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On April 24 2010 13:13 CrunkOwns wrote:
HON handles this perfectly letting you select which servers you are willing to play on from a map before you enter matchmaking. Blizzard is rich as shit cmon now.
Boom. No more excuses.
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i think we should wait a bit before we take this out of proportion.
lets at least see how it goes. and if your really pro, im sure your sponsors will pay for a key to each realm.
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Why don't they just make it so you can't ladder outside of your zone but you can still play custom games with people on the different servers? This makes zero sense in the day and age of the whole world being able to connect to each other. There are no excuses for blizzard to implement this if they do what i suggested.
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I see no reason to make the segregation. I mean, really, what's the point?
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Troll elsewhere Floop...
@zomgzergrush
Any RTS sends pretty much the same amount of data. 1 set for unit ID and 1 set for position or whatever...I was able to play WC3/TFT fine on euro server (around 100ms), asia was higher but still playable.
a FPS is different because latency is much more important to dodge that incoming rocket, nade or railgun.
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Given the way Blizzard has treated WoW, they'll make a global tournament server just for the pro leagues at some point.
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So what does this mean for countries like Australia and New Zealand? Will we be forced to play on the Asia servers, with non-english speaking players? Or will we be forced to play with 300+ latency vs Americans?
I didn't play iccup as much as I'd have liked to because of bad latency, if battle.net servers are the same why will I even bother with sc2? This is very bad news.
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Look from the point of view of a clan leader. When you have players from asia, EU and US, what the fuck do you do?
Thanks Blizzard for causing a rift in people's well-knit bw families.
Cunts.
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This is fucking pathetic. If I cannot connect to international servers without paying 150+ dollars for three copies of the game, cannot connect to chat channels and have to deal with sc2s horrible chat system, and will 100% have to deal with hacks, because everyone knows blizzard is horrible at stopping hackers, then I am simply not buying the game. I've been playing beta for almost the entire time it was out, but if there are no chat channels AND I can't connect to other servers then there's no point in even buying the game.
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And so the seeds for a mass exodus back to sc1 are planted....
This really sucks. Blizzard really needs to get on this, or risk losing any ESPORTS cred.
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In a way I can kind of understand why Blizzard opted to segregate the servers. I mean, if you were in the Asian servers playing ladder and some American with 56k or something joined, it'd be lagging like crazy. But on the other hand, it's nice to be able to play in different servers just for the variety. Americans play different from Europeans and Asians and it would've been nice to check out what the other continents are doing. =\
So the only way around this is to purchase a separate CD-key and register it under a different region?
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On April 24 2010 13:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
Look from the point of view of a clan leader. When you have players from asia, EU and US, what the fuck do you do?
Thanks Blizzard for causing a rift in people's well-knit bw families.
Cunts.
you make clans with people that you can actually play with and get together instead of covering a dozen timezones. that type of clan structure wasnt very effective to begin with.
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Blizzard should atleast allow Europe & America to play together. I can understand Asia, because the latency would be 400+.
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This is ridiculous just because it shouldn't be too hard to have a lag test between two players before a game is set up in the current match making system.
There are plenty of other alternatives with better solutions, this is just a poor way to get around lag issues :/
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The solution to this problem is so obvious and easy.
Just have the pro league support interserver tournaments.
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you make clans with people that you can actually play with and get together instead of covering a dozen timezones. that type of clan structure wasnt very effective to begin with.
wow thats really insensitive and stupid, go troll somewhere else or think of something somewhat intelligent to say. I've been in a few different clans, and talk to a bunch of people from them, telling people to just leave their stupid clans and ditch their friends because they were in a type of clan structure that "wasnt very effective to begin with" is a dumb thing to say.
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Im betting we'll see this changed almost immediately when the full game comes out. Hopefully, Blizzard needs to recognize that its a terrible move to keep it this way.
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On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . I really hope a lot more thought gets put into this decision, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. Does this mean i cant download maps/products from European/Asian Bnet either? Yikes.
It seems like you'd be able to do stuff like that over a website though. Couldn't you?
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Cha-ching! Starcraftu two: It prints money!
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seems like the one topic were every player is in agreement, this is such a step backwards
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So fucking gay... Are you kidding me?
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I definitely agree that it is strange that the only reason Blizzard gives for this decision is lag. People are already sharing accounts to compete in tournaments, its just a little messy. If people are already doing it, why can't they help make it a bit easier?
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On April 24 2010 13:41 Mohdoo wrote:
I definitely agree that it is strange that the only reason Blizzard gives for this decision is lag. People are already sharing accounts to compete in tournaments, its just a little messy. If people are already doing it, why can't they help make it a bit easier?
Because selling 2 or 3 copies of sc2 to every player is more profitable than 1 copy.
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This is the worst decision Blizzard has ever made I think. There's no real justification for this - take Australia for example, our lag is already as bad as most US players would get playing on other servers.
Blizzard needs to realize the importance of having a global community.
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On April 24 2010 12:47 Mohdoo wrote:
I admit that so far I am very pleased with the current state of Battle.net2.0. It does an excellent job at fixing many of the problems that were present in both Warcraft 3 and Brood War. The match making system is solid. I believe that Blizzard has succeeded in creating a competitive atmosphere which almost entirely eliminates the need for LAN play.
I don't get what's so good about B.Net2.0.
A competitive atmosphere? We created it. They could have given us a blank interface with one "play" button in the middle of the screen and the result would have been the same. There is simply nothing outstanding about bnet 2.0 and it has none of the vibrant life bnet1.0 had in starcrafts early years.
It is a ghost interface with little shitty xbox live gimmicks like avatars and achievements for a bored and underachieving audience and there is wasted space all over. Yes the spectator interface is not bad and the matchmaking makes things easier. But the lack of chat rooms, watching replays online together, presenting personal statistics in a interesting manner (just look at iccup ffs), the total whatthefuckage that is called ladder and divisions and now the complete separation of the community by key do not impress me the least.
But hey. At least there is one poor smuck who has to draw medals and trophies all day for our glorious achievements...i swear one day you get an achievement just for opening the game package...
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lets pull out the poll, so blizzard can get pwned in the face and maybe see that they have to change this
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(Before it's recent downfall.) Counter Strike, arguably the biggest eSport game in the Western world, never needed cross continent interaction to be a successful eSport. Obviously it sucks that you can't practice with your friends, but it wouldn't be the end of SC2 as an eSport.
The big international events will invite players from all over the world anyway, online will become more meaningless as more international tournaments pop up.
The worst thing about this is you fact you can't play with some of your best friends, unless you buy both editions, which i'm sure the majority of players will do.
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On April 24 2010 13:07 Floophead_III wrote:
99% of casuals won't care, but the 1% that is TL should be outraged! How will I be able to face koreans when I'm up at 6 am in the morning because I drank too many Dews. UNACCEPTABLE!
US korean hours aren't bad in sc2...that's when I ran into day9
lost all of 2 points in my top10 plat....
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not even an option?! even if buried somewhere deep inside the win registry or w/e?
picardwhatisthisshit.jpg
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Yeah its a bummer
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I edited a poll into the OP.
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Brad April 24 2010 13:45. Posts 53 PM Profile Quote
(Before it's recent downfall.) Counter Strike, arguably the biggest eSport game in the Western world, never needed cross continent interaction to be a successful eSport. Obviously it sucks that you can't practice with your friends, but it wouldn't be the end of SC2 as an eSport.
The big international events will invite players from all over the world anyway, online will become more meaningless as more international tournaments pop up.
The worst thing about this is you fact you can't play with some of your best friends, unless you buy both editions, which i'm sure the majority of players will do.
I dunno about you, but I'm 17. I don't have $100+ dollars to throw around for extra copies of a game...
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On April 24 2010 13:50 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote + Brad April 24 2010 13:45. Posts 53 PM Profile Quote
(Before it's recent downfall.) Counter Strike, arguably the biggest eSport game in the Western world, never needed cross continent interaction to be a successful eSport. Obviously it sucks that you can't practice with your friends, but it wouldn't be the end of SC2 as an eSport.
The big international events will invite players from all over the world anyway, online will become more meaningless as more international tournaments pop up.
The worst thing about this is you fact you can't play with some of your best friends, unless you buy both editions, which i'm sure the majority of players will do. I dunno about you, but I'm 17. I don't have $100+ dollars to throw around for extra copies of a game...
My point was more directed to the competitive scene, but yeah, the worst thing is that you can't play with some of your friends, but it's nothing new. This whole region thing has been happening for the past few years, mainly from MMO's. It sucked for WoW.
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to me there's no other way to describe it except being completely and utterly rude and disrespectful.
we can piss and moan about balance changes and how the people that make sc2 are not the people that make sc1.. but i mean, come on. seriously. what else besides this can demonstrate how completely ignorant and disrespectful they are of the community starcraft left behind?
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It's atrocious. I don't know how they can even joke that they want to support eSports and then to segregate the three regions from each other. On top of that, USA eSports has YET to take off in RTS the way it has in euro/kor, and SC2 had a HUGE chance because SO many competitive gamers were looking forward to jumping in, due to the hype and from playing WoW and realizing Blizzard is great/etc.
I'm 100% certain Blizzard realizes this is dumb and is just saving that feature for an expansion to get some crowd cheers 2 Blizzcons from now -_-
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Only reason for this is they hope to get a few extra sales off of people buying 2-3 copies to play on other servers.
Its fucking bullshit
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My point was more directed to the competitive scene, but yeah, the worst thing is that you can't play with some of your friends, but it's nothing new. This whole region thing has been happening for the past few years, mainly from MMO's. It sucked for WoW.
This will hurt the competitive scene, even if whitera and tlo buy three copies, having to purchase three copies just to play competitively is going to hurt the development of the scene badly.
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And I didn't think of it, but the other thing that totally blows is if you want to play late at night you won't be able to play people where they are at more normal hours =\
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On April 24 2010 14:00 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote +My point was more directed to the competitive scene, but yeah, the worst thing is that you can't play with some of your friends, but it's nothing new. This whole region thing has been happening for the past few years, mainly from MMO's. It sucked for WoW. This will hurt the competitive scene, even if whitera and tlo buy three copies, having to purchase three copies just to play competitively is going to hurt the development of the scene badly.
How will it hurt WhiteRa and TLO? I'm pretty sure the EU & US guys will get enough practice from there respected regions. You don't have to play guys from the US to get better, and vice versa.
They will train online and then play eachother at WCG, ESWC, ESL, MLG, Dreamhack, etc, etc or whatever companies pick up SC2 (Which i'm guessing will be all of them.).
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On April 24 2010 14:00 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote +My point was more directed to the competitive scene, but yeah, the worst thing is that you can't play with some of your friends, but it's nothing new. This whole region thing has been happening for the past few years, mainly from MMO's. It sucked for WoW. This will hurt the competitive scene, even if whitera and tlo buy three copies, having to purchase three copies just to play competitively is going to hurt the development of the scene badly.
Don't forget: 3 copies of the the original, then 3 copies of each expansion, so 9 total.
That puts you in the hole over $500 if you want to play with everybody. Fucking bullshit.
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Looking past the competitive scene, this is an enormous disappointment to SC2 players who have friends in other parts of the world. (Absolutely inconceivable, isn't it?) There are modern games who have come up with ways to handle global play very well--for example, like one previous poster pointed out, Heroes of Newerth--and I'm really saddened that I, personally, won't be able to play with my friends who are moving back to South Korea.
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On April 24 2010 14:05 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 14:00 Newguy wrote:My point was more directed to the competitive scene, but yeah, the worst thing is that you can't play with some of your friends, but it's nothing new. This whole region thing has been happening for the past few years, mainly from MMO's. It sucked for WoW. This will hurt the competitive scene, even if whitera and tlo buy three copies, having to purchase three copies just to play competitively is going to hurt the development of the scene badly. How will it hurt WhiteRa and TLO? I'm pretty sure the EU & US guys will get enough practice from there respected regions. You don't have to play guys from the US to get better, and vice versa. They will train online and then play eachother at WCG, ESWC, ESL, MLG, Dreamhack, etc, etc or whatever companies pick up SC2 (Which i'm guessing will be all of them.).
It would be a barrier to players who want to get into the competitive scene.
Blizzard doesn't give a shit about this being a long-lasting "sport". They want to make their money off it, then move to the next game to sell you. There's no profit in it for them for this to last a long time, unlike WoW.
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United States33360 Posts
it's unbelievably annoying and infuriating
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Like the aussies, we will have lag no matter what. Sure, even if we only make up a fraction of the sales, if lag was so important to blizz then they would have implemented something better than we have now. We are going to have 400+ lag even if i am playing my bro who lives down the road? This forces guys like us to find alternative solutions else we won't have competitive play at all!
Where is the alternative to LAN that they spoke of. After reading the networking post by R1CH, I still don't see the alternative. Or did I miss it somewhere?
Blizz enlighten me!
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blizzard activision merger was the worst thing that ever happened to bliz. Instead of creating games to satisfy the community, they are driven by one thing and one thing only - quarterly sales.
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You know the funniest thing.
Everyone in this forum is still going to go out and buy the game.
So Blizzard have lost nothing of the income that comes from the mass majority of their customers. And they've doubled/tripled what they'll get from the top 1% competitive players who want to compete on international levels. (Or quadrupled/quintipled what they'll get from these players, based on expansion packs, as someone else posted above me).
Oh, and think about what happens if Battle.net becomes a non-free service. (I think they have the mechanics for this down, with the Russian payment-situation thing). So might this decision to segregate servers also again increase the monetary gain they get from the 1% hardcore customer base, if battle.net becomes a pay-for service?
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stop QQing about something that cant be fixed.
there are some good posts here that explain the reasoning behind this, if you cant understand that reasoning then Im sorry i dont kno what to tell you.
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On April 24 2010 14:15 mynameisbean wrote:
You know the funniest thing.
Everyone in this forum is still going to go out and buy the game.
So Blizzard have lost nothing of the income that comes from the mass majority of their customers. And they've doubled/tripled what they'll get from the top 1% competitive players who want to compete on international levels. (Or quadrupled/quintipled what they'll get from these players, based on expansion packs, as someone else posted above me).
Oh, and think about what happens if Battle.net becomes a non-free service. (I think they have the mechanics for this down, with the Russian payment-situation thing). So might this decision to segregate servers also again increase the monetary gain they get from the 1% hardcore customer base, if battle.net becomes a pay-for service?
If blizzard does implement a p2p service, I would not be surprised if iccup clones etc get implemented in sc2 to cater to the competitive community.
As of a monthly fee. Fuck that.
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I just want to play the darn game
But Blizzard is making it lame
No more Euro pals
And hot Asian gals
So now it won't be quite the same T_T
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On April 24 2010 13:18 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 13:16 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
Look from the point of view of a clan leader. When you have players from asia, EU and US, what the fuck do you do?
Thanks Blizzard for causing a rift in people's well-knit bw families.
Cunts. you make clans with people that you can actually play with and get together instead of covering a dozen timezones. that type of clan structure wasnt very effective to begin with.
Erm, blatantly untrue. I speak from 6 years of experience.
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On April 24 2010 14:23 Frozz wrote:
I just want to play the darn game
But Blizzard is making it lame
No more Euro pals
And hot Asian gals
So now it won't be quite the same T_T
I thought your post was awesome
I was about to hit reply
Then i noticed your signature
You are a wonderful guy
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while truly annoying...i find it hard to believe that blizzard doesnt plan on letting us connect to any server down the road.
to give them the benefit of the doubt - we do not know anything about how they setup/created/programmed B.Net 2.0. Considering all factors, the things they mentioned may in fact be current problems with its structure - something they plan on fixing but something that will probably take time. Time will tell how this plays out, maybe the Pro-League will be able to play cross-server
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On April 24 2010 14:15 mynameisbean wrote:
You know the funniest thing.
Everyone in this forum is still going to go out and buy the game.
So Blizzard have lost nothing of the income that comes from the mass majority of their customers. And they've doubled/tripled what they'll get from the top 1% competitive players who want to compete on international levels. (Or quadrupled/quintipled what they'll get from these players, based on expansion packs, as someone else posted above me).
Oh, and think about what happens if Battle.net becomes a non-free service. (I think they have the mechanics for this down, with the Russian payment-situation thing). So might this decision to segregate servers also again increase the monetary gain they get from the 1% hardcore customer base, if battle.net becomes a pay-for service?
I complained like 8 years ago battle.net should become a pay for service. I would have gladly paid $10 a month for a well taken care of battle.net for BW, let alone what the market would dictate something like that should cost -- maybe $1?2$? Automated matchmaking which they designed for War3, anti-hack, a ladder system that supported the esports community... these things could have been awesome and would have definitely been worth shelling out a little money. Practically speaking, it's a lot to expect permanent, consistent expense on their part to support a one time payment for the game. It's a lot more reasonable to pay something to expect that level of service. If not, it isn't surprising to get what D2 and BW had -- functional but old useless technology
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seriously? 99% of the people here don't understand why this isn't possible?
the lag is tremendous right now going between regions, blizzard doesn't have the resources necessary to refresh their servers and build infrastructure to handle all of this and keep it relatively lag free and competitive
ESPECIALLY for a damn pay once game
get over it people
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I've played both on EU and ASIA and lag hasn't been an issue at all (I live in cali) so really can't understand what the big issue is. (Only time I get bad lag is vs some Aussies)
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On April 24 2010 14:38 GreggSauce wrote:
seriously? 99% of the people here don't understand why this isn't possible?
the lag is tremendous right now going between regions, blizzard doesn't have the resources necessary to refresh their servers and build infrastructure to handle all of this and keep it relatively lag free and competitive
ESPECIALLY for a damn pay once game
get over it people
What about just making it the same way they made Warcraft 3? I'm not asking them to upkeep more servers, simply to allow people the option of connecting to one or the other. I don't see how its not possible if it were done in the past.
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Anyone made a thread at blizzard's site about that? I guess a 500++ thread will get their attention.
However at the guys who visited: didn't they said in a previous interview around march that they will not implent a gateway service in the release version but in a later patch? That would make sense to me since the serverload will be insane and needs to be verified before upping a working structure (which should obviously have some backup as well lol).
Anyone knows more?
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On April 24 2010 14:38 GreggSauce wrote:
seriously? 99% of the people here don't understand why this isn't possible?
the lag is tremendous right now going between regions, blizzard doesn't have the resources necessary to refresh their servers and build infrastructure to handle all of this and keep it relatively lag free and competitive
ESPECIALLY for a damn pay once game
get over it people
What? This isn't World of Warcraft.
I play with friends from asia (japan, korea) every day 2v2 and 1v1. Lagg has never been an issue...
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Activision: Hey if we don't let people swap realms we can get progamers to buy three copies!
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If you actually care about this, a good thing to do is to send them an email or a letter. I personally think it will be a disaster for international communities (such as this site ...).
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lol this is just terrible...
Causes so much inconvenience for people with friends around the world. I currently live in Canada but have lots of friends back home in Bahrain who I may only see during the summer or Christmas. Getting either/or just makes me have to choose between them and my friends here in Canada. I hope Blizzard fixes this...
The fact that there is no LAN makes it even worse as I can't play with my friends even when we're in the same fucking room + Show Spoiler +(I'm referring to the friends I can't play with over bnet)
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On April 24 2010 14:38 GreggSauce wrote:
seriously? 99% of the people here don't understand why this isn't possible?
the lag is tremendous right now going between regions, blizzard doesn't have the resources necessary to refresh their servers and build infrastructure to handle all of this and keep it relatively lag free and competitive
ESPECIALLY for a damn pay once game
get over it people
i can already play on europe fine(on wc3+sc2). theres no reason they cant have gateways you select before connecting to bnet,(like d2/wc3/sc1) other than trying to get more money
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I fully support segregated servers on the ladder just for latency issues but there is absolutely no reason for custom to be separate.
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On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . I really hope a lot more thought gets put into this decision, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. Does this mean i cant download maps/products from European/Asian Bnet either? Yikes.
Think of every professional sport ever, it's not like andy roddick gets the chance to regularly practice with anyone outside the US. Yet the most excitement is generally when the big meet ups happen and the best players from across the globe play for titles in grand slams. It will create SICK rivalry between the servers, he'll it alrdy has, and I love the drama XD.
I'm just playing devils advocate here. But I don't think this change is all negative.
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On April 24 2010 13:16 ibutoss wrote:
So what does this mean for countries like Australia and New Zealand? Will we be forced to play on the Asia servers, with non-english speaking players? Or will we be forced to play with 300+ latency vs Americans?
I didn't play iccup as much as I'd have liked to because of bad latency, if battle.net servers are the same why will I even bother with sc2? This is very bad news.
you'll be on the american server.... while all the americans are asleep
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On April 24 2010 22:32 Ftrunkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . I really hope a lot more thought gets put into this decision, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. Does this mean i cant download maps/products from European/Asian Bnet either? Yikes. Think of every professional sport ever, it's not like andy roddick gets the chance to regularly practice with anyone outside the US. Yet the most excitement is generally when the big meet ups happen and the best players from across the globe play for titles in grand slams. It will create SICK rivalry between the servers, he'll it alrdy has, and I love the drama XD. I'm just playing devils advocate here. But I don't think this change is all negative.
sorry but thats the dumbest analogy i've ever read. andy roddick doesn't play tennis on the internet
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This is so dumb. It blows my mind. I had no idea Blizzard could be so fucking stupid.
I'm just playing devils advocate here. But I don't think this change is all negative.
How is separating custom games not all negative? It's like saying that disabling the option to run Flash on a device is not all negative.
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Do we even know they are talking about the released product? Or they are just referring to the current beta?
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I think thats a pretty lame move and it may lead to players abandoning the new bnet and figure out another way to play the game together.
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I dont understand why they are enforcing segregation like this. It would make sense to lock europeans out of the official US ladder f.ex. because of latency concerns, but to keep unofficial tournaments from global participation makes no sense. That's a decision the players should be able to make.
So in short; I'd think the best solution would be to allow an account to log on to any bnet server, but only be able to join ladder games on their native realm, and only be able to join custom games on the other ones.
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On April 24 2010 22:51 furymonkey wrote:
Do we even know they are talking about the released product? Or they are just referring to the current beta?
Playing on different gateways: Blizzard is not planning on allowing players to play on different server upon release, so things will be the same as they are in beta right now.
from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121072
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Wops, missed that part. Cheers!
That is sad to hear But I do believe it will eventually be implemented, like replay and gateway features for starcraft.
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So much for esports
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We need a thread about this in the official suggestion forum
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Yeah, there's definitely a need for an iCCup arrangement for SC2 as well, and I don't care of it's illegal and against the TOS.
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There's always ways to get around stuff like this. It's just a little sad that blizzard doesn't seem to be working in the direction we'd hope for in this regard. I won't say too much just yet though, and most of you should calm down in my opinon.
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this is the only thing that really bothers me about SC2 right now. Why not just have a big warning sign that says "SWITCHING SERVERS MAY CAUSE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF LAG" or something like that?
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I was the first one voted "No" mainly because on iCCup I experienced lag when playing Aussie, Chinese or south american players. I think the ladder with auto-matchmaking should be as lag-free as possible (a latency test in matchmaking stage would be nicer than isolation).
Although with ladders isolated, it really should be able to play custom maps / invites with other-continent-players, and it would be nice (if not entirely necessary) with an above platinum ladder where the top of each region battle the top of the world. A pro-league, world-league or whatever.
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On April 24 2010 23:23 zeox wrote:
this is the only thing that really bothers me about SC2 right now. Why not just have a big warning sign that says "SWITCHING SERVERS MAY CAUSE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF LAG" or something like that?
That just can't be the real reason.
It'd pretty much senseless since lag should hurt the person who causes it (the actual host is always Battle.net by now) unless the drop window comes up, but I only have US acc at this time and only had it when I left some 3rd party download on accidentally. They should ban all high ping ppl too (I can get below 100ms delay to american servers, there are ISPs who don't do this fine even domestically, besides SC2 faster speed tickrate is 182ms).
There must be well planned marketing reasons behind this that Blizzard do not want to disclose at this time.
Anyways, gotta live with it.
I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy 2 copies for the 2 servers and there'll be a lot of people doing that. So Blizzard is already getting a lot more cash due to this idea, though this surely is not why they introduced it.
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What sort of delay are people from the US getting to Euro server right now? I live in Oregon. I plan on simply buying 2 copies if they don't reverse this decision by then. Is it playable?
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This definitely will separate eSports, I mean c'mon, Korean has much better players, this will make Korean players far better then american/Europe because american and Europe players learn alot from Korean games...
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That's what a cashflow of 200 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH can get you... Wait a second...
Blizzard was always primarily focused on moneygrabbing and will always be focused on moneygrabbing... See retail price of SC2... As if splitting the game into 3 games wasn't enough cash for those greedy fucks...
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On April 25 2010 03:19 mcbrite wrote:
That's what a cashflow of 200 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH can get you... Wait a second...
Blizzard was always primarily focused on moneygrabbing and will always be focused on moneygrabbing... See retail price of SC2... As if splitting the game into 3 games wasn't enough cash for those greedy fucks...
what the hell?
If blizzards focus would be moneygrabbing we have starcraft 6 right now.
And its a normal game with 2 expansions, why do people always complain about that, are you not used to expansions anymore from all the EA games that get a new sequel every year with no support?
Noone forces you to buy the game btw.
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it just isnt starcraft if you dont play after 10pm in fair of the koreans
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On April 25 2010 03:26 Ideas wrote:
it just isnt starcraft if you dont play after 10pm in fair of the koreans
so true haha
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On April 24 2010 13:06 zomgzergrush wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 13:03 KiF1rE wrote:On April 24 2010 13:01 Kennigit wrote:
Yup it's a total disaster. I don't understand how one of the core philosophies could be to support and develop esports and then in the same breath segregate and divide the community in 3 :\ . Hopefully this gets fixed, because having to find tricks and work arounds like iCCup/pgtour etc really should be a thing of the past. agreed but i dont get why blizzard quotes lag lag lag over and over as the main reason to seperate servers.... many games handle the distance between regions quite well, SC1 with a few modifications handles lag between distance quite well... SC1 does not operate at all like SC2 multiplayer. There are no modern games that can handle latency cross continents. Pull up any modern FPS game and connect across the globe. Won't work.
I play CoDMW2 all the time with friends across the pond, with low latency.
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I usually support Blizzard in most of their decisions. But this one is totally wrong. I can't even understand it at all. There has to be some kind of secondary reason they are not telling us. This is the worst thing they could do for esports, which they keep saying they intend to support. Honestly im so shocked by it that I am in denial. It will not happen!
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How does the magical LAN latency mod on sc1 work anyway?
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As much as I support Blizzard's trying to make starcraft 2 an e-sport, server segregation is basically gamebreaking. If they don't put it in after release, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that a private server will come up and the entire e-sports scene will move on to it and leave blizzard. I'm not even saying that "might" happen, but rather it will "definitely" happen if blizzard doesn't step it up and get rid of server segregation.
Its a simple cause and effect. Blizzard puts server segregation. Effect is that everyone leaves blizzard servers and blizzard no longer controls any part of starcraft e-sports. I'm not saying blizzard won't still have a ton of people on regular bnet, but they won't have the e-sports crowd thats for sure.
Next time someone talks/visit to blizzard or something they should tell them this stuff. Don't beat around the bush either tell it straight out, and if blizzard tries to say something like they will prevent people from making private servers, thats just pure bs since that is impossible to do.
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there are just so many things I dislike about blizzards direction. and most of them are purely short term economic descisions, ignoring the game and its community (i.e. ignoring long term gain).
they ignore so many things necessary for making sc2 a real esport title and this will end up hurting blizzard in the long run.
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I wouldn't try to understand Blizzard's reasons. They are bullshit. Such decisions are made on the top level, like Kotick. It's perfectly clear - this separation is a money grab and win-win situation for Blizzard: noobs do not care, they will buy the game and will play happily inside their region, where they don't need to deal with occasional lag or annoying foreigners. Many pro players will buy additional keys just to be able to play on different servers - more $$$.
Look - there is a small company called S2 games which did not produce any popular game before. But they made: LAN latency, and very small lag across regions; Reconnect feature; perfect anti-maphack; chat channels; detailed statistics of everything; all replays hosted on servers.
It is not like that these guys are geniuses and Blizz devs are stupid, no way. Blizz just decided to get away with cutting every feature they could without completely breaking the game. Then, when millions buy the game, they can make a marketing research - is it profitable to add chat channels? And you have new expansion with this feature which is marketed as huge improvement to grab some extra money.
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On April 25 2010 03:19 mcbrite wrote:
That's what a cashflow of 200 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH can get you... Wait a second...
Blizzard was always primarily focused on moneygrabbing and will always be focused on moneygrabbing... See retail price of SC2... As if splitting the game into 3 games wasn't enough cash for those greedy fucks...
This is so retarded. Blizzard has taken 12 years to craft a sequel to the original Starcraft instead of churning out some retarded generic product every 1.5 years like EA or Square Enix.
Accusing them of "money grabbing" is hilarious.
They are also spending a shit-ton of money on balancing and e-sports related features (like replays) when they could have easily said fuck it. They don't need SC at all, they could easily make far more money churning out WoW-related nonsense and realize a much greater profit margin.
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On April 26 2010 15:43 Ruthless wrote:
How does the magical LAN latency mod on sc1 work anyway?
AFAIK it removes the innate 250ms "penalty" which forces everyone to play with a minimum of 250ms latency. Blizzard built this into the game to make it playable/fair back in the days of dialup but it is pretty pointless these days because most people have broadband of some sort.
SC2 has similar netcode though I believe the "penalty" is lower (which is still stupid because it should go as fast as it can like any other modern game).
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Hmpf... somehow it says I can't post on the suggestions board at the moment, so could anyone transmit the OP and maybe some serious statements to the suggestions board for SC2?
edit: typo
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In War3, the reason for server switching was for clan wars and custom games. I never laddered on Asia or Europe but plenty of tournaments were organised on those servers and therefore I needed access to those chatrooms. All games were hosted through the most optimal, fair host (for us Aussies it was usually someone from the West Coast of the US) regardless of the opponent, be it from Asia or Europe.
This allowed us to play in every tournament we could find a fair host for.
Now we can't? I simply cannot play in any tournament hosted outside the NA server? Clan wars worked totally fine when a neutral host was found.
On April 26 2010 21:39 vek wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 15:43 Ruthless wrote:
How does the magical LAN latency mod on sc1 work anyway? AFAIK it removes the innate 250ms "penalty" which forces everyone to play with a minimum of 250ms latency. Blizzard built this into the game to make it playable/fair back in the days of dialup but it is pretty pointless these days because most people have broadband of some sort. SC2 has similar netcode though I believe the "penalty" is lower (which is still stupid because it should go as fast as it can like any other modern game).
I believe you have it correct, but it may be slightly different to what your think. Blizzard adds a 250ms to your ping to smooth out your gaming experience. If your ping is 50ms, then your total bnet ping is 300ms. If your ping is 200ms, then your total bnet ping is 450ms.
It doesn't make everyones ping 250ms. That is a misconception.
As far as I'm aware, the reason why bnet adds the apprx 250ms to your ping is because it only sends updates every couple ticks. This was implemented for weaker internet connections which couldn't handle a flurry of updates every tick or so. These days people no longer have 56k and the 250ms buffer is (arguably) overkill and useless.
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If HoN can do it for a 10 player 100% micro-oriented game, there is no reason it can't be in SC2
Blizzard is just being cheap, and it will backfire with private servers one day or the other as many people have already guessed.
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blizzard talks a lot about wanting sc2 to become some huge esport like the original, yet they remove LAN, cross region play, consider third party servers as pirates, and want royalties to broadcast matches.
imo they are being a bit short sighted. all these things that they are so against are things that contributed greatly to the original games success over 10+ years. they want to maximize profits in the short run, at the expense of long term acceptance of the game as an esport. but thats what every company does now adays.
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On April 26 2010 21:44 Jarvs wrote:As far as I'm aware, the reason why bnet adds the apprx 250ms to your ping is because it only sends updates every couple ticks. This was implemented for weaker internet connections which couldn't handle a flurry of updates every tick or so. These days people no longer have 56k and the 250ms buffer is (arguably) overkill and useless.
I think it's to prevent spikes actually - spikes happen where a computer has to wait longer than the lag time they set for a packet of information, so they add a value to the ping so that very few slower packets will cause spikes.
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Damn, I accidently clicked on "yes" when I meant to vote NO.. in my head I was thinking "YES i am against this decision by blizzard!" -_-
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I'm thinking it's mostly just for beta, because they're working on a lot of seperate servers and having say too many player playing on the asia server would just mean worse lag than players are already experiencing. Once they get more servers up and running it might just be one big system
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Blizzard might consider this version of Battle.net to be 2.0, but honestly, even not being part of the beta, I can't see any progress from the good old one. Once again, half-arsed, hypocritical arguments (like the no-lan thingy) to try to justify their greed. To bad I'm already addicted to SC2
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I have absolutely no understanding at all for this decision. I can't see a single positive thing about it.
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On April 26 2010 23:55 Stropheum wrote:
I'm thinking it's mostly just for beta, because they're working on a lot of seperate servers and having say too many player playing on the asia server would just mean worse lag than players are already experiencing. Once they get more servers up and running it might just be one big system
Read the quote, thats not the case.
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No channels and now that ... 
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
It's not so much it'll hurt esports. It's the fact it'll hurt balance.
Zerg are Strong in Korea, Weak in America.
They won't get stronger in America until they can sample Korean Zerg play and adapt and vise versa. You can't balance it region by region, it just doesn't work that way.
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How on earth are international tournaments supposed to happen with this system ?
Will blizzard implement some sort of LAN mode for tournament organizers or will the organizer just have to buy like 128 copies of SC2 from the same region so that all can compete on the same gateway?
This will hold back SC2 so much
I really hope Blizzard changes their mind in the near future
Edit: And how can they use high latency as an argument for this ? Has the technology moved backwards since SC:BW ?? You could play pretty much lagfree as a euro on US servers with lan latency plugin.
I don't understand
If they don't want to split up the players between the ladders and possibly getting lag, why not allow Custom Games on any given gateway and make ladder play gateway-exclusive, this way international tournaments will still be able to happen without any issue.
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On April 24 2010 14:38 GreggSauce wrote:
seriously? 99% of the people here don't understand why this isn't possible?
the lag is tremendous right now going between regions, blizzard doesn't have the resources necessary to refresh their servers and build infrastructure to handle all of this and keep it relatively lag free and competitive
ESPECIALLY for a damn pay once game
get over it people
Then could you explain why many people currently play on multiple servers without issue?
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It's really Battle.net 0.2 -_-
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I am super exited that there will be localized servers, I remember trying to play competitively in WoW and it was impossible as there were no Oceanic servers and I had like 10 times the latency as everyone else.
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On April 25 2010 03:12 Mohdoo wrote:
What sort of delay are people from the US getting to Euro server right now? I live in Oregon. I plan on simply buying 2 copies if they don't reverse this decision by then. Is it playable?
Well, I'm from europe playing on the US server and there's a little less delay than I'd get with bnet latency in brood war. Actually, quite a bit less delay. I haven't played a single laggy game (one to the point of stuttering or drop screen anyway) as a result of high ping between me and my opponent. It's not exactly lan latency but its more than playable.
This is the worst thing ever, by the way. Looks like I'm going to have to import the goddamn game because every one of my friends who plays Starcraft is from the US.
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Canada9720 Posts
Players: But I want to play with [insert different color skin than your own] friends!
Blizzard: No talking between the front and back of the bus!
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we all know this is for money making purposes only, just like how lan was taken out and just like how they refuse to give terms to KeSPA that everyone can agree with. They really think that the e-sports community will pop out on its own, without any support from them, and while this happens, they will rake in the dollars due to their right to control what tournements take place, etc.
blizzard has never been for e-sports. e-sports really takes alot of money, setting up infrastructure and marketing schemes and a financial stake they are too unwilling to take. there is no way blizzard would gamble millions of dollars setting up something like korea has with a chance of failure.
they are not for e-sports. segregating the community? how does that help foster a international gaming scene that hopes to be competitive as sc:bw in korea?
no no no..
i dont know how blizzard is like this.
HoN can do it with their game system, choosing different regions to play in, ( a free game currently btw) but Blizzard with all its resources behind it cant??
its a disaster on epic proportions.
IMO, i think we don't have enough hardcore gamers and fans in one region to support any sort of e-sports without the cooperation with the europeans at least...
ugh im so sad...
sc2 wasn't too bad of a game either.. its pretty fun right now.
i just think they are limiting themselves on the full potential this game can reach.
i also wonder... for like WCG... do they have to go through bnet to play each other??
why bnet... when everyone is together... lan is just so much more stable.. and quicker..
i just dont get it.
blizzard is making a huge mistake... i hope they realize immediate sales of the games is important too.. but so is the longevity and staying loyal to their fans. Across the lifetime of bw, i am sure i am not alone in saying.. i have bought so many copies of SC due to losing cd-keys. their method of limiting you to one region per key really forces you to buy multiple keys which is good in the short term... but it really pisses off a lot of their hardcore fans who would end up buying 5+ copies in the first place without this incentive.
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What about players who have friends in other servers that they have played games with forever :S.
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On April 27 2010 00:04 Boblion wrote:No channels and now that ...
No chat channels at launch. No connecting to other regions envisioned EVER.
I'm absolutely speechless. Their decission just boggles the mind.
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On April 27 2010 02:36 Garaman wrote:
we all know this is for money making purposes only, just like how lan was taken out and just like how they refuse to give terms to KeSPA that everyone can agree with. They really think that the e-sports community will pop out on its own, without any support from them, and while this happens, they will rake in the dollars due to their right to control what tournements take place, etc.
get lost with this nonsense. Blizzard don't care about random people running tournaments, they care about BUSINESSES like kespa running tournaments and raking in profits from THEIR work without paying any royalties. I don't have much comment on everything else you've said but it seriously brings my piss to a boil when people talk about blizzards situation with kespa as if its going to be the benchmark for every tournament ever run involving SC2.
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On April 27 2010 00:29 Qikz wrote:
It's not so much it'll hurt esports. It's the fact it'll hurt balance.
Zerg are Strong in Korea, Weak in America.
They won't get stronger in America until they can sample Korean Zerg play and adapt and vise versa. You can't balance it region by region, it just doesn't work that way.
I strongly agree with him. Kinda crazy idea by Blizzard. Can't understand at all.
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I'm not sure I believe that Blizzard is doing this for "latency issues." If that was the case, couldn't you just put in a latency checker in the auto-matchmaking system? Or is that too difficult for Blizzard nowadays?
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fastest way to heed the progression of esport
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And it's not like they don't have any other forms of income atm (I'm looking at you WoW) to just do this for money..
It may sound like a cliche, but it really feels like Activision is influencing Blizzard in a very wrong way
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It may sound like a cliche, but it really feels like Activision is influencing Blizzard in a very wrong way
^This
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Just look at WoW after their merge, you can now buy ingame mounts and pets for real money?!
Blizzard used to be true to their customers :<
![[image loading]](http://images.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/168032_S/Activision-CEO-Bobby-Kotick-is-the-devil.jpg)
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More than anything it just makes me feel like Blizzard is out of touch with it's community. The pro's and higher skilled gamers have always lead the way in every one of Blizzard's games and how to improve them. Ignoring cross region play and the lack of chat rooms just makes me think that Blizzard thinks they know what we want regardless of what the community is actually saying.
Not implementing these things wont really hurt sales at launch, but it's a symbolic gesture by Blizzard that pro gamers aren't important to them.
*edited for spelling
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They know what we want, but they also know what they can get away with considering the masses of wow players that will flock to a new game.
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On April 24 2010 13:42 ibutoss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2010 13:41 Mohdoo wrote:
I definitely agree that it is strange that the only reason Blizzard gives for this decision is lag. People are already sharing accounts to compete in tournaments, its just a little messy. If people are already doing it, why can't they help make it a bit easier? Because selling 2 or 3 copies of sc2 to every player is more profitable than 1 copy.
That's the right answer. Sc2 is still p2p, and old bnet knew exactly who disconnected. The trick is simple : bnet keeps a connection active, so when you dc you lose also connection to bnet and the other player doesn't, easy. The difference is, now disconnects are simply counted as a loss. Which is a good thing. HoN has servers that hosts games so there the model is client/server, it is superior to p2p but with the numbers we have for sc2, will you explain to a blizzard manager why he has to spend tens of milions of $ just to make it slightly better. He'll just stick with the other solution, actually inreasing sales without increasing costs.
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On April 27 2010 08:21 Spidermonkey wrote:
More than anything it just makes me feel like Blizzard is out of touch with it's community. The pro's and higher skilled gamers have always lead the way in every one of Blizzard's games and how to improve them. Ignoring cross region play and the lack of chat rooms just makes me think that Blizzard thinks they know what we want regardless of what the community is actually saying.
Not implementing these things wont really hurt sales at launch, but it's a symbolic gesture by Blizzard that pro gamers aren't important to them.
*edited for spelling
100% agree.
progaming isnt important to them. e-sports is DEFINITELY not important to them.
only thing is money money money. mo money mo problems? eh? lol
i like what the guy said about activision influencing blizzard... it totally seems true.
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Well maybe everyone who wanted to believe that no lan play was actually for "united community" will learn. Nothing wrong with wanting to support blizzard, but blizzard has fundamentally different motivations than the community.
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Sorry but you guys are taking this way too dramatically it's still in the godamm beta
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On April 27 2010 12:36 Darkren wrote:
Sorry but you guys are taking this way too dramatically it's still in the godamm beta
That's been used as a scapegoat more times then I care to count anymore. SC2 is more than likely at the end of Beta. It's at the point where you can take what we currently have and intelligently assume this is what launch will consist of.
Beta is an excuse for bugs, not for missing features such as international servers and community features such as chat rooms.
I'm in the military and unfortunately I'm going to have to find a way to hack this game and play on LAN. When I head out to Afghanistan I'm may not always have the option to connect to B.net.
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They're a business they need to make money, but I'm trying to decide if the server segratation is a bad enough thing where I should boycott the game or if it's really not that bad. It doesn't seem like blizzard cares about making sc2 a serious esport game anyways despite anything they might have said.
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I don't think most of us are going to boycott the game. It doesn't really matter how angry we are because a few people on an online forum not buying the game isn't going to change Blizzard's mind.
That's not really an excuse to stop haranguing blizzard, though. Emails, forum posts, create noise and don't accept the segregation status quo. Enough attention and they might add it in.
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EPT
