Patch 9 Discussion - Page 42

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geno

United States1404 Posts

April 22 2010 21:50 GMT

#821

On April 23 2010 06:49 MasterFwiffo wrote:
So, does anyone have images of the new maps, and I just missed em?

I second this request, not at home to see them

Failsafe

United States1298 Posts

April 22 2010 21:51 GMT

#822

this is a great patch. it made the balance changes that were clearly necessary but it didn't overreact and attempt to do too much at one time. also, the inclusion of the map editor and some new maps is a great bonus as well.

Netherlands12045 Posts

April 22 2010 21:52 GMT

#823

On April 23 2010 06:49 MasterFwiffo wrote:
So, does anyone have images of the new maps, and I just missed em?

no one can open their account atm so no one know how r those look like

ggrrg

Bulgaria2717 Posts

April 22 2010 21:53 GMT

#824

i hate marauders

i love immortals

but cool that they added some new maps.

Senx

Sweden5901 Posts

April 22 2010 21:53 GMT

#825

Does anyone have some screenshot of the new UI btw?

Polygamy

Austria1114 Posts

April 22 2010 21:53 GMT

#826

Still no macs?

BasedSwag

Algeria418 Posts

April 22 2010 21:53 GMT

#827

On April 23 2010 06:52 NB wrote:

Show nested quote +

no one can open their account atm so no one know how r those look like

Can't you open the map in the SC2 editor or something?

seedfreedom

Canada38 Posts

April 22 2010 21:54 GMT

#828

On April 23 2010 06:44 Kaniol wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 23 2010 06:36 seedfreedom wrote:

On April 23 2010 06:32 STS17 wrote:
I don't see why everyone is complaining so fucking much about the balance changes.

Has anyone else noticed the trend here? Blizzard is forcing us to try out different strategies and build orders by intentionally over-nerfing popular units. This results in players resorting to different units and styles to play while Blizzard sits there collecting data.

Here is an example:
Patch 7:
T: "Marauders can kite early P units easily, rushing with them is a good idea"
P: "QQ. I keep losing to Marauder all ins and there is nothing I can do! QQ QQ QQ"

Patch 8:
T: "Well, Marauders aren't effective early-game anymore... Let's try the Reaper."
P: "QQ. Reaper rushes are so IMBA they can attack me for 30 seconds before I can even attempt to counter them! QQ QQ QQ"

These kinds of changes will persist for the next month or two (or three) and then each unit will subtlety be brought "back into line" so to speak as its final resting place on the balance scale will be revealed.

These trends have been around since the release of beta but as these are some of the most recent ones. Now they have over-nerfed the Immortal to see how the Protoss players respond to it by forcing them to seek alternate ways of dealing with threats from the opposing races. Meanwhile, the Marauder has been brought to a point where it will likely remain relatively unchanged between now and release - for better or worse.

Zerg has received some interesting buffs allowing some interesting strategies (infested terran harass comes to mind immediately) while T and P will have to respond to - though I hardly imagine they will be game breaking.

TLDR: Quit bitching and read the post or don't bother responding to it.

[b]Except Terran have never been at a disadvantage to toss. They just keep changing which unit the terran masses to run us over. The only real nerf the terran got was back when they shut down the mass marine rush. but ever since then mass marauder into banshees has been the strongest build which most tosses still can't beat. taking away from them even more isn't helping balance.

Hmmm...
http://www.teamliquid.net/userpoll/draw.php?poll_id=8937
http://www.teamliquid.net/userpoll/draw.php?poll_id=8940
Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120288
And this applies to every P whining about "PvT is gonna be impossible now because it was already hard and now immortals take sooo long to produce"

Also - look at recent tourneys. Yes, there was a time when it was T>P (at least i considered it that way) but seems like most P players turned the balance in their favor. Maybe we will see some brilliant change in TvP that will change this state (or simply some patch will balance this) but so far let's not draw any conclusions about P>T

Right, because a user poll where protoss are disliked amongst the other two races really reflect a accurate and fair view of acutal balance in the game. Since SC1 terran and zerg players could agree on their mutual dislike for toss more than each other, doesn't mean SC1 wasn't balanced.

Doc Daneeka

United States577 Posts

April 22 2010 21:54 GMT

#829

i'm not sure i understand why both those maps were removed from 2v2, they could've at least left lost temple. but otherwise, looks pretty solid. excited to see the new maps.

BlackHat

United States264 Posts

April 22 2010 21:55 GMT

#830

Does anyone else think with the queen speed nerf off creep but no speed nerf on creep, they are trying to make people use creep tumor more? One tumor can bridge the gap between your main and your natural making it so she can walk between both the same as before. Since most Zerg spam spawn larva they could be trying to get this ability used more.

Edit: I mean that one use of it will eventually bridge the gap.

Vei

United States2845 Posts

April 22 2010 21:55 GMT

#831

I -LOVE- the infestor changes! ^^ I really hope they don't get nerfed now =x because they're going to be strong as ****.

wolfe

United States761 Posts

April 22 2010 21:56 GMT

#832

On April 23 2010 06:54 Doc Daneeka wrote:
i'm not sure i understand why both those maps were removed from 2v2, they could've at least left lost temple. but otherwise, looks pretty solid. excited to see the new maps.

They were removed for the very reason why you like them. They are good. This is beta. In beta we test things that aren't as good to make them such.

Bibdy

United States3481 Posts

April 22 2010 21:57 GMT

#833

On April 23 2010 06:48 STS17 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 23 2010 06:36 seedfreedom wrote:

[B]On April 23 2010 06:32 STS17 wrote:
I don't see why everyone is complaining so fucking much about the balance changes.

Has anyone else noticed the trend here? Blizzard is forcing us to try out different strategies and build orders by intentionally over-nerfing popular units. This results in players resorting to different units and styles to play while Blizzard sits there collecting data.

Here is an example:
Patch 7:
T: "Marauders can kite early P units easily, rushing with them is a good idea"
P: "QQ. I keep losing to Marauder all ins and there is nothing I can do! QQ QQ QQ"

Patch 8:
T: "Well, Marauders aren't effective early-game anymore... Let's try the Reaper."
P: "QQ. Reaper rushes are so IMBA they can attack me for 30 seconds before I can even attempt to counter them! QQ QQ QQ"

These kinds of changes will persist for the next month or two (or three) and then each unit will subtlety be brought "back into line" so to speak as its final resting place on the balance scale will be revealed.

These trends have been around since the release of beta but as these are some of the most recent ones. Now they have over-nerfed the Immortal to see how the Protoss players respond to it by forcing them to seek alternate ways of dealing with threats from the opposing races. Meanwhile, the Marauder has been brought to a point where it will likely remain relatively unchanged between now and release - for better or worse.

Zerg has received some interesting buffs allowing some interesting strategies (infested terran harass comes to mind immediately) while T and P will have to respond to - though I hardly imagine they will be game breaking.

TLDR: Quit bitching and read the post or don't bother responding to it.

Except Terran have never been at a disadvantage to toss. They just keep changing which unit the terran masses to run us over. The only real nerf the terran got was back when they shut down the mass marine rush. but ever since then mass marauder into banshees has been the strongest build which most tosses still can't beat. taking away from them even more isn't helping balance.

Oh I completely agree with you. I play T (hence the choice of complaints are both against T units being OP and both races are P who are complaining - I wasn't insinuating P ever had it easy over T) and I wasn't around the Beta until after the reactor nerf. However, I have had almost perfect success against P with Reaper harass -> Marauder -> 2port Banshee since P7 when marauders still had CS by default.

My success rate (while I enjoy it) is something I have an issue with since I don't like being able to roll over someone unless they catch me offguard with cheese (oh, and Reaper > 2 Gate Proxy so don't try it against someone fast teching to Reapers). I feel that T needed the Marauder nerf (though I disagreed with it being 80s, and think 100/100/60s is more appropriate).

Protoss need a revamp to their tech structure. One tech tree shouldn't be the answer to almost everything and that is something I believe Blizzard will address before release.

You must be joking. A revamp of the structure? At this point? The Robo Fac doesn't counter a lot of stuff, particularly the stuff that flies in the air...most sensible Protoss will get a Robo Fac, an Observer and figure out from that what they need to do. Most of the time its either Immortals or Collossi because YOU GUYS are deciding what units you want to make and we just react to it.

Roaches -> Immortals
Hydras -> Collossi
M&M ball -> Immortals + Collossi
Tanks/Thors -> Immortals

If you're making Banshees, and right from the first engagement, you're stomping all over a guy who's got nothing but Immortals, and maybe a couple of Stalkers, you found a noob.

Jaso

United States2147 Posts

April 22 2010 21:57 GMT

#834

So... I'm not the only one the patch isn't working for? :/

geno

United States1404 Posts

April 22 2010 21:57 GMT

#835

My guess is that they were already satisfied with how games were playing out on those maps. They are probably still on the fence about twilight, which is why its still in the pool. They should have added these maps earlier though, only 3 2v2 maps was getting annoying. Glad to have new ones though, now I just want to see them.

Tristan

Canada566 Posts

April 22 2010 21:57 GMT

#836

let my evil begin hahahaha
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