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Beta Key Self-Nominators - Page 42

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ClanOverdosed
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
691 Posts
April 17 2010 23:38 GMT
#821
whoa whoa, this thing is getting very complicated!
Overdosed--www.overdosed.net
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
April 17 2010 23:38 GMT
#822
On April 18 2010 08:32 Bear4188 wrote:
As a newbie, I'm going to try to summarize what the hell is going on here.

1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key.

2) Some people self nominated. Some are arguably deserving people who wanted to make sure they didn't get overlooked. Others were people who were making their first post a "LOL GIMME A KEY."

3) Members of the community (not just people with an account, but people who've stuck around for awhile) are upset that people are hijacking what was seemingly intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them.

4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway.

5) Some new posters see that the contest was not meant to be a raffle, but as an effort to get them to community contributors. They withdraw stating that they misunderstood and might even be interested in partaking in the community in the future

6) The few worthy self nominees see that things have gotten a little out of hand and pull out as well, knowing that they'll still be recognized by their community if they are actually worthy.

7) The rest, having the intent of the nominations explained to them, continue to insist that they are still more deserving of keys earmarked for members of the TL community than contributing members of said community. They are met with derision.

As an aside, to new people claiming the community is unwelcoming:
I am myself a newbie. The difference is I did not come here expecting to be given anything. I came here to watch some of the awesome streams, read the threads, and participate however I can. Without a key I obviously couldn't contribute any meaningful in game knowledge. However, TL is an esports site, and that consists of several things. Even without a key you can contribute as a spectator. There are multiple threads from streamers who want input whether it be questions to be answered, feedback on quality, topics of interest, etc. So, you can still contribute and will find the existing community to be welcoming of you (as evidenced by the keys awarded to myself and 11 other newbies for making an effort to join the community). If you're not at all interested in watching esports than this site probably isn't for you anyway.

Smartest guy in this whole thread.
Faronel
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States658 Posts
April 17 2010 23:40 GMT
#823
This reminds me of SawCraft... Hot Bid is magnificent
C'est la vie...
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
April 17 2010 23:42 GMT
#824
On April 18 2010 08:38 Kennigit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:32 Bear4188 wrote:
As a newbie, I'm going to try to summarize what the hell is going on here.

1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key.

2) Some people self nominated. Some are arguably deserving people who wanted to make sure they didn't get overlooked. Others were people who were making their first post a "LOL GIMME A KEY."

3) Members of the community (not just people with an account, but people who've stuck around for awhile) are upset that people are hijacking what was seemingly intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them.

4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway.

5) Some new posters see that the contest was not meant to be a raffle, but as an effort to get them to community contributors. They withdraw stating that they misunderstood and might even be interested in partaking in the community in the future

6) The few worthy self nominees see that things have gotten a little out of hand and pull out as well, knowing that they'll still be recognized by their community if they are actually worthy.

7) The rest, having the intent of the nominations explained to them, continue to insist that they are still more deserving of keys earmarked for members of the TL community than contributing members of said community. They are met with derision.

As an aside, to new people claiming the community is unwelcoming:
I am myself a newbie. The difference is I did not come here expecting to be given anything. I came here to watch some of the awesome streams, read the threads, and participate however I can. Without a key I obviously couldn't contribute any meaningful in game knowledge. However, TL is an esports site, and that consists of several things. Even without a key you can contribute as a spectator. There are multiple threads from streamers who want input whether it be questions to be answered, feedback on quality, topics of interest, etc. So, you can still contribute and will find the existing community to be welcoming of you (as evidenced by the keys awarded to myself and 11 other newbies for making an effort to join the community). If you're not at all interested in watching esports than this site probably isn't for you anyway.

Smartest guy in this whole thread.


Woaaaaaahhhhh hold up there mister.
Chains none
phlamez
Profile Joined January 2008
United States96 Posts
April 17 2010 23:42 GMT
#825
On April 18 2010 08:27 Cheree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:09 phlamez wrote:
On April 18 2010 08:02 Cheree wrote:
On April 18 2010 07:56 phlamez wrote:
Some food for thought. Imagine you're on a lifeboat with a maximum capacity of 30 people and currently there are 60. You have to self opt yourselves to drown in order to save others and if none of you choose to do so you'll all drown. Do you want to do nothing and hope that other people are better human beings than you or take responsibility over your own fate and do something that might actually matter.

Once again someone with a bad analogy. The keys won't be destroyed if people don't opt out. People won't drown if people don't sacrifice themselves. They'll just find a better way of deciding who gets the keys/lifeboat seat. Wanting this contest to fail is the best course of action imo, cause the process of determining who gets a key is fucked up and doesn't even match with the intention of picking who's the most deserving.


Read the entire post before commenting.
1. Its an analogy, are you serious? People won't drown if they don't opt out of this contest? Really? I had no idea when I suggested that the situation would be similar that no one was drowning in this contest. My bad.
2. The intentions do match up, the intention has always been to promote community, initially this was through rewarding those who have contributed to this community, now its through demonstrating that when it comes down to it we can still behave as a community and be truly happy for others in this community to have keys.
3. Read my original post, the keys may not be destroyed if the people don't opt out, but our sense of community will certainly take a hit. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this way but I will certainly think a lot less of TL and of the people belonging to it if the people in this thread can't look beyond their own self interests.
4. You don't seem to get that the situation has changed, it's not simply a question of who gets keys anymore, its about how people behave when presented with this situation. The beta isn't going to last forever, everyone will get to play the game at some point, who gets or who doesn't get a key will have little impact, how you all behave today will have a much more lasting impression.


About 1, you were the one who brought up the analogy where drowning would be the equivalent of no one wins, when in fact that is not the case. If no one wins, the keys will be distributed again.
2. The intention was to give people who are most deserving the key. People have various reasons for staying or opting out, not necessarily because they want to promote community. If there's one bad apple, which there is bound to be, the whole intention of the contest goes tits up.
3. The contest was designed to fail from the start, I don't see how you could expect it to succeed. In the perfect world, those who dont think they deserve the key would step down in favor of those who do. In reality, that's not true. So even if this contest ends up with winners, they won't be the most deserving like intended and leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who were more deserving than them.
4. In the long run, it will have little impact. TL has a chance of showing what kind of community they promote, yet this contest is pitting people against eachother and those who are selfless are not the ones being rewarded if this contest succeeds.


1. I was being sarcastic, my point was that analogies aren't supposed to be 1 to 1.
2. Implicit in the idea of giving people who are most deserving of the key is the idea of community. You have control over your intentions and the intentions of others aren't an excuse to not act.
3. This is ridiculously jaded, and I don't believe for a second that hotbid designed this contest to fail.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
April 17 2010 23:43 GMT
#826


1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key. With the possibility to nominate themselves as well.

2) Most people self nominated. Because there were no definition of the word 'deserving', those newcomers posted explanations why they think they were deserving.

3) Members of the community are upset that people rightfully entered contest (following the rules), because they thought that this was intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them.

4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway.

5)Some new posters who withdrawed, acknolwedged the intent of giveaway, althought they were not sure about one thing - whats up with all the hate?

6) Other self nominees do not care about TL.net, just the beta key.

7) Remaining self nominees chose to play 'the game' TL.net has offered them.

Fixed!.

ComradeDover
Profile Joined November 2009
Bulgaria758 Posts
April 17 2010 23:48 GMT
#827
On April 18 2010 08:43 NightOfTheDead wrote:
...althought they were not sure about one thing - whats up with all the hate?


I opted out several a couple dozen pages ago and I'm still not sure what's up with all the hate. >:[
Bring back 2v2s!
Weedman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States65 Posts
April 17 2010 23:48 GMT
#828
No one wants to lose the game.
Smoke it!
baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
April 17 2010 23:49 GMT
#829
On April 18 2010 08:43 NightOfTheDead wrote:


1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key. With the possibility to nominate themselves as well.

2) Most people self nominated. Because there were no definition of the word 'deserving', those newcomers posted explanations why they think they were deserving.

3) Members of the community are upset that people rightfully entered contest (following the rules), because they thought that this was intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them.

4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway.

5)Some new posters who withdrawed, acknolwedged the intent of giveaway, althought they were not sure about one thing - whats up with all the hate?

6) Other self nominees do not care about TL.net, just the beta key.

7) Remaining self nominees chose to play 'the game' TL.net has offered them.

Fixed!.

TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).

so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.

u gonna change ur life philosophy now??
IndecisivePenguin
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States771 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-17 23:51:25
April 17 2010 23:50 GMT
#830
I wish it were possible for all the keys to just go to the contributing members of the community who haven't yet been graced with them. I really, honestly don't want a key if someone else deserves it more than I do. That was the point of the submission in the original thread; I would be graded against many others and it would be left up to the moderators, and even community too if they wanted, to evaluate my reasoning and whether or not it qualifies. I had no problem with keys going to people who deserved them, the problem only came to be when the game changed, and the intentions behind the nomination process seemed to be destroyed.

I only wanted the key as a means of learning more about this game from a first-hand perspective, and to in-turn, be able to give better insight about it in the videos I plan to create on a weekly basis. The videos themselves are designed to help provide information as to what's new in the SC2 community and about the game itself. It was an opportunity to be something better than I am now, to have more of a means of serving others.

But honestly, it's not like I'm not going to do these videos if I don't get the key. Of course, I'm going to be making these videos anyway, because the whole point was to help people out with what means I have.

I'm likely not going to stay in this competition with the way it's going. I don't agree with the methods, I'm tired of the miscommunications, and the whole point was lost a long time ago.
Cheree
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada123 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-18 00:03:06
April 17 2010 23:54 GMT
#831
On April 18 2010 08:42 phlamez wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 18 2010 08:27 Cheree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:09 phlamez wrote:
On April 18 2010 08:02 Cheree wrote:
On April 18 2010 07:56 phlamez wrote:
Some food for thought. Imagine you're on a lifeboat with a maximum capacity of 30 people and currently there are 60. You have to self opt yourselves to drown in order to save others and if none of you choose to do so you'll all drown. Do you want to do nothing and hope that other people are better human beings than you or take responsibility over your own fate and do something that might actually matter.

Once again someone with a bad analogy. The keys won't be destroyed if people don't opt out. People won't drown if people don't sacrifice themselves. They'll just find a better way of deciding who gets the keys/lifeboat seat. Wanting this contest to fail is the best course of action imo, cause the process of determining who gets a key is fucked up and doesn't even match with the intention of picking who's the most deserving.


Read the entire post before commenting.
1. Its an analogy, are you serious? People won't drown if they don't opt out of this contest? Really? I had no idea when I suggested that the situation would be similar that no one was drowning in this contest. My bad.
2. The intentions do match up, the intention has always been to promote community, initially this was through rewarding those who have contributed to this community, now its through demonstrating that when it comes down to it we can still behave as a community and be truly happy for others in this community to have keys.
3. Read my original post, the keys may not be destroyed if the people don't opt out, but our sense of community will certainly take a hit. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this way but I will certainly think a lot less of TL and of the people belonging to it if the people in this thread can't look beyond their own self interests.
4. You don't seem to get that the situation has changed, it's not simply a question of who gets keys anymore, its about how people behave when presented with this situation. The beta isn't going to last forever, everyone will get to play the game at some point, who gets or who doesn't get a key will have little impact, how you all behave today will have a much more lasting impression.


About 1, you were the one who brought up the analogy where drowning would be the equivalent of no one wins, when in fact that is not the case. If no one wins, the keys will be distributed again.
2. The intention was to give people who are most deserving the key. People have various reasons for staying or opting out, not necessarily because they want to promote community. If there's one bad apple, which there is bound to be, the whole intention of the contest goes tits up.
3. The contest was designed to fail from the start, I don't see how you could expect it to succeed. In the perfect world, those who dont think they deserve the key would step down in favor of those who do. In reality, that's not true. So even if this contest ends up with winners, they won't be the most deserving like intended and leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who were more deserving than them.
4. In the long run, it will have little impact. TL has a chance of showing what kind of community they promote, yet this contest is pitting people against eachother and those who are selfless are not the ones being rewarded if this contest succeeds.


1. I was being sarcastic, my point was that analogies aren't supposed to be 1 to 1.
2. Implicit in the idea of giving people who are most deserving of the key is the idea of community. You have control over your intentions and the intentions of others aren't an excuse to not act.
3. This is ridiculously jaded, and I don't believe for a second that hotbid designed this contest to fail.

This 'test' puts too much faith in the community. HotBid is being incredibly naive if he thinks the community will sort itself out, especially if the community is composed of new members who just registered and have low attachment to TL, and they have the same say as everyone else.

You could have someone staying in the contest...
..because they truly believe they deserve it over someone else
..because they're an ass
..because they want to prevent that ass from getting a key
..because they have no faith in the design and want to see the keys handed out a better way
...

You could have someone opting out cause...
...they feel they're undeserving compared to the rest.
...they want to appear to be selfless to the community, regarldless if they are or not.
...they didn't check the forums
...they think opt-outers will win despite what HB says since he's made up rules on the fly
...

Basically, whether or not this contest has winners is not telling of a good community. I personally rather see this contest fail.
*wants beta*
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
April 17 2010 23:55 GMT
#832
On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).

so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.

u gonna change ur life philosophy now??


Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration.
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
April 17 2010 23:59 GMT
#833
On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).

so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.

u gonna change ur life philosophy now??


Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration.


Well, I'm waiting for a list of your contributions, and considering that you have at least 10 posts in this thread, I'm certainly looking forwards to your kick ass, top of the line, insightful 5 contributions.
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
April 18 2010 00:00 GMT
#834
On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).

so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.

u gonna change ur life philosophy now??


Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration.

i just checked your post history because i was curious about whether or not baller was correct. while it's true that you registered in 2009, simply registering an account on TL doesn't make you part of the community.

so lets take a look at what you have contributed to TL:

15 total posts
4 of them are in "Nominate Someone to Win a Beta Key" including one post being an image macro (these were your 3 of your first 4 posts)
1 post speculating about balancing force field
10 of them are in this thread, "Beta Key Self-Nominators"

sounds like you fit the bill of "didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key" pretty well.
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
April 18 2010 00:02 GMT
#835
On April 18 2010 09:00 LosingID8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:
On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).

so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.

u gonna change ur life philosophy now??


Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration.

i just checked your post history because i was curious about whether or not baller was correct. while it's true that you registered in 2009, simply registering an account on TL doesn't make you part of the community.

so lets take a look at what you have contributed to TL:

15 total posts
4 of them are in "Nominate Someone to Win a Beta Key" including one post being an image macro (these were your 3 of your first 4 posts)
1 post speculating about balancing force field
10 of them are in this thread, "Beta Key Self-Nominators"

sounds like you fit the bill of "didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key" pretty well.

why r u hating on him so much

he opted out to help his fellow mans...
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2585 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-18 00:05:44
April 18 2010 00:04 GMT
#836
I would like to withdraw my name from the self-nomination list... It seems life's catching up unto me : (...

instead, I would like to nominate all the streamers and translators: konadora, mystlord, boes, quickstriker, l10f, roffles, lyriene and etc

I can always get a beta key some other time ^^
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-18 00:07:35
April 18 2010 00:05 GMT
#837
On April 18 2010 08:54 Cheree wrote:
This 'test' puts too much faith in the community. HotBid is being incredibly naive if he thinks the community will sort itself out, especially if the community is composed of new members who just registered and have low attachment to TL, and they have the same say as everyone else.

You could have someone staying in the contest...
..because they truly believe they deserve it over someone else
..because they're an ass
..because they want to prevent that ass from getting a key
..because they have no faith in the design and want to see the keys handed out a better way
...

You could have someone opting out cause...
...they feel they're undeserving compared to the rest.
...they want to appear to be selfless to the community, regarldless if they are or not.
...they didn't check the forums
...they think opt-outers will win despite what HB says since he's made up rules on the fly
...

Basically, whether or not this contest has winners is not telling of a good community. I personally rather see this contest fail.

As I said many pages back, people are making too many assumptions about the purpose of this contest. HotBid has never said anywhere that they expect the keys to be given out, or that the goal is to give the keys to the most deserving. All of those "flaws" you list above could most certainly have been expected by the TL staff, and they serve to make the contest and the ensuing discussion more amusing and create more drama. If the goal was to get a good laugh and get some people worked up, then whether or not the keys get handed out, the contest was already a smashing success.

Also:
On April 18 2010 08:32 Bear4188 wrote:
As a newbie, I'm going to try to summarize what the hell is going on here.

1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key.

2) Some people self nominated. Some are arguably deserving people who wanted to make sure they didn't get overlooked. Others were people who were making their first post a "LOL GIMME A KEY."

3) Members of the community (not just people with an account, but people who've stuck around for awhile) are upset that people are hijacking what was seemingly intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them.

4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway.

5) Some new posters see that the contest was not meant to be a raffle, but as an effort to get them to community contributors. They withdraw stating that they misunderstood and might even be interested in partaking in the community in the future

6) The few worthy self nominees see that things have gotten a little out of hand and pull out as well, knowing that they'll still be recognized by their community if they are actually worthy.

7) The rest, having the intent of the nominations explained to them, continue to insist that they are still more deserving of keys earmarked for members of the TL community than contributing members of said community. They are met with derision.

As an aside, to new people claiming the community is unwelcoming:
I am myself a newbie. The difference is I did not come here expecting to be given anything. I came here to watch some of the awesome streams, read the threads, and participate however I can. Without a key I obviously couldn't contribute any meaningful in game knowledge. However, TL is an esports site, and that consists of several things. Even without a key you can contribute as a spectator. There are multiple threads from streamers who want input whether it be questions to be answered, feedback on quality, topics of interest, etc. So, you can still contribute and will find the existing community to be welcoming of you (as evidenced by the keys awarded to myself and 11 other newbies for making an effort to join the community). If you're not at all interested in watching esports than this site probably isn't for you anyway.

QFT
Moderator
thezergk
Profile Joined October 2009
United States492 Posts
April 18 2010 00:06 GMT
#838
I know how to stop the fighting! Everyone who self nominated . . . withdraw!
Nada vs. TLO Results: "Nada 1 TLO 1 Bnet 2 KESPA 1"
IndecisivePenguin
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States771 Posts
April 18 2010 00:07 GMT
#839
I guess we just have to wait until Monday then haha.
The-Dom
Profile Joined February 2010
United States165 Posts
April 18 2010 00:08 GMT
#840
Wow @ This thread, can't say I saw it coming at all.

I'm sure the people I nominated probably already had keys anyway
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