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On April 18 2010 08:54 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:42 phlamez wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 08:27 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:09 phlamez wrote:On April 18 2010 08:02 Cheree wrote:On April 18 2010 07:56 phlamez wrote:
Some food for thought. Imagine you're on a lifeboat with a maximum capacity of 30 people and currently there are 60. You have to self opt yourselves to drown in order to save others and if none of you choose to do so you'll all drown. Do you want to do nothing and hope that other people are better human beings than you or take responsibility over your own fate and do something that might actually matter.
Once again someone with a bad analogy. The keys won't be destroyed if people don't opt out. People won't drown if people don't sacrifice themselves. They'll just find a better way of deciding who gets the keys/lifeboat seat. Wanting this contest to fail is the best course of action imo, cause the process of determining who gets a key is fucked up and doesn't even match with the intention of picking who's the most deserving. Read the entire post before commenting. 1. Its an analogy, are you serious? People won't drown if they don't opt out of this contest? Really? I had no idea when I suggested that the situation would be similar that no one was drowning in this contest. My bad. 2. The intentions do match up, the intention has always been to promote community, initially this was through rewarding those who have contributed to this community, now its through demonstrating that when it comes down to it we can still behave as a community and be truly happy for others in this community to have keys. 3. Read my original post, the keys may not be destroyed if the people don't opt out, but our sense of community will certainly take a hit. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this way but I will certainly think a lot less of TL and of the people belonging to it if the people in this thread can't look beyond their own self interests. 4. You don't seem to get that the situation has changed, it's not simply a question of who gets keys anymore, its about how people behave when presented with this situation. The beta isn't going to last forever, everyone will get to play the game at some point, who gets or who doesn't get a key will have little impact, how you all behave today will have a much more lasting impression. About 1, you were the one who brought up the analogy where drowning would be the equivalent of no one wins, when in fact that is not the case. If no one wins, the keys will be distributed again. 2. The intention was to give people who are most deserving the key. People have various reasons for staying or opting out, not necessarily because they want to promote community. If there's one bad apple, which there is bound to be, the whole intention of the contest goes tits up. 3. The contest was designed to fail from the start, I don't see how you could expect it to succeed. In the perfect world, those who dont think they deserve the key would step down in favor of those who do. In reality, that's not true. So even if this contest ends up with winners, they won't be the most deserving like intended and leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who were more deserving than them. 4. In the long run, it will have little impact. TL has a chance of showing what kind of community they promote, yet this contest is pitting people against eachother and those who are selfless are not the ones being rewarded if this contest succeeds. 1. I was being sarcastic, my point was that analogies aren't supposed to be 1 to 1. 2. Implicit in the idea of giving people who are most deserving of the key is the idea of community. You have control over your intentions and the intentions of others aren't an excuse to not act. 3. This is ridiculously jaded, and I don't believe for a second that hotbid designed this contest to fail. This 'test' puts too much faith in the community. HotBid is being incredibly naive if he thinks the community will sort itself out. You could have someone staying in the contest... ..because they truly believe they deserve it over someone else ..because they're an ass ..because they want to prevent that ass from getting a key ..because they have no faith in the design and want to see the keys handed out a better way ... You could have someone opting out cause... ...they feel they're undeserving compared to the rest. ...they want to appear to be selfless to the community, regarldless if they are or not. ...they didn't check the forums ...they think opt-outers will win despite what HB says since he's made up rules on the fly ... Basically, whether or not this contest has winners is not telling of a good community. I personally rather see this contest fail.
Intentions are impossible to know with 100% accuracy, that doesn't change the fact that we can assign probabilities to whether or not people had a good or bad intention based on how they acted. It's more likely than not that people who are opting in are doing it for selfish reasons. The people who are staying in to prevent others from getting the key or because they don't like the system are being vocal about it, most of the people who are staying in fall in the first two categories and both are selfish. It's more likely than not that people who are opting out are doing it for good reasons, we will be able to verify exactly how many opt out due to negligence, I highly doubt that more than 10 people opted out because they think they will win (is the 27th person who opts out really hoping to win a key by being the 27th person?), a handful will want to be perceived as selfless but how lasting of an impression do you think being one of 60 (or more) people who opted out will be.
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Germany2762 Posts
i just skimmed through the last pages of the thread and i guess i need some clarification on this new rule... will everyone have to resubmit their nominations during those two hours or just the guys out of the list in this thread?
i guess just the guys out of the list or am i wrong here?
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So for the final 2 hours thing, is that talking about today's deadline, or tommorow?
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On April 18 2010 08:13 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:01 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 07:56 Cheree wrote:On April 18 2010 07:54 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 07:50 3FFA wrote:On April 18 2010 07:44 Slow Motion wrote:On April 18 2010 07:43 3FFA wrote:On April 18 2010 07:40 huameng wrote:On April 18 2010 07:36 3FFA wrote:
I think that TL handled this all wrong though. Why no drawing at all? That makes it so that there is no point in this. You could've at least selected some more users that are great contributors(like in the news post) instead of doing this. Now that I realize whats happening for real I just wish I hadn't nominated myself at all. -.- I'm starting to wonder why I should trust TL's staff at all anymore.
edit: edited for change of meaning. Why do you think all the keys from the nomination thread are being used in this contest? Ya but I didn't realize how they would handle the contest. This is just cruel. They should have just said that you can't nominate yourself instead of "and yes, you can nominate yourself". Nah, they're just trying to extract as much amusement from the keys as possible while giving them away. Good entertainment for the rest of us. Ya but for those who opted-in its just cruel and mean. I might've expected this from the normal users but not the STAFF! =( I think you're taking this way too seriously. A lot of new users have posted and interacted a lot in this thread, and as a result we've gotten to know them much better. That's a positive side effect we can take away from this regardless of what happens. And we've gotten to know the staff a lot better as well. I don't understand, are you trying to be passive aggressive or something here? Because throughout this entire thread I've not bashed one user for self-nomination nor have I attacked anyone for not opting out. This thread is a fun competition where users who wouldn't have gotten keys get opportunities to get keys. It's also generated many pages of discussion and as a result we know a lot of users better. I'm not talking about your posts, but your design. This contest is designed to fail from the get go, whether intentional or not.
The design is sound. HB will live up to it an hand out the keys. There's nothing misleading. It's the people partaking. I can't see how you're arguing around this.
On April 18 2010 05:53 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2010 20:10 Pholon wrote:On April 17 2010 19:14 DwmC_Foefen wrote:On April 17 2010 19:01 Cheree wrote:On April 17 2010 18:45 Pholon wrote:
This thread, however, is a chance for you to redeem yourself. Redeem themselves from what? There's nothing wrong with nominating yourself in a contest like this, especially when it was explicitely said it was okay to do so. I don't see people who got their very first beta keys giving them out to more deserving members of the community. People who don't have beta keys and didn't get nominated stand a better chance by self-nomination than no nomination at all. This patronizing attitude rubs me the wrong way. It's just wrong to nominate yourself :p The was called "Nominate SOMEONE to win a beta key". And then there were all these low postcount posters who went on and nominated themselves. How do you call that in English? Leechers? :p OH IM SORRY. I guess scrubs nominating themselves over so many unkeyed deserving people doesn´t rub you the wrong way huh? Wow that makes so much sense. I missed this. If a scrub nominates themselves, no it doesn't rub me the wrong way. If they win, it will rub me the wrong way. Do you see the distinction? Also, I don't believe the mere fact of nominating yourself makes you a scrub. You're making that statement without even giving those folks a chance to prove themselves, without even looking at what they have to say. The less information and interaction you have with someone, the further you should be from passing judgement. There's a categorical condescending attitude against these self-nominees who don't deserve the shit being thrown at them. Again, I'm not saying people who haven't proven their worth to the community should get keys, I'm saying they shouldn't be shunned for trying when it was explicitely said it was ok. If I were a judge, I would kindly note their nomination, see if they could convince me of their worthiness and weigh them up against everyone else's nomination. Granted. most of them would be less deserving by comparison imo, but they also don't deserve this kind of treatment from the community, especially from those who are supposed to be TL role models. There are self-nominations that could be deemed more deserving than peer nominations.
No. As far as I'm concerned non-naming-yourself is inherent to the word nominate. It's even implied in Kennigit's original instructions. Everyone I talk to agrees that -nominating oneself- for whatever is such a non-decorum move. It's called volunteering.
On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 04:25 Pergamon wrote:
edit: after no one gets a key, what happens to them? Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list.
You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it.
On April 18 2010 08:32 Bear4188 wrote:As a newbie, I'm going to try to summarize what the hell is going on here. 1) TL offered up the opportunity for members to nominate anyone in the community who they thought were deserving of a beta key. 2) Some people self nominated. Some are arguably deserving people who wanted to make sure they didn't get overlooked. Others were people who were making their first post a "LOL GIMME A KEY." 3) Members of the community (not just people with an account, but people who've stuck around for awhile) are upset that people are hijacking what was seemingly intended to put keys in the hands of people who would greatly appreciate them. 4) TL creates this thread such that self nominees could either explain themselves or withdraw their nomination upon realizing the real intent of the giveaway. 5) Some new posters see that the contest was not meant to be a raffle, but as an effort to get them to community contributors. They withdraw stating that they misunderstood and might even be interested in partaking in the community in the future  6) The few worthy self nominees see that things have gotten a little out of hand and pull out as well, knowing that they'll still be recognized by their community if they are actually worthy. 7) The rest, having the intent of the nominations explained to them, continue to insist that they are still more deserving of keys earmarked for members of the TL community than contributing members of said community. They are met with derision. As an aside, to new people claiming the community is unwelcoming: I am myself a newbie. The difference is I did not come here expecting to be given anything. I came here to watch some of the awesome streams, read the threads, and participate however I can. Without a key I obviously couldn't contribute any meaningful in game knowledge. However, TL is an esports site, and that consists of several things. Even without a key you can contribute as a spectator. There are multiple threads from streamers who want input whether it be questions to be answered, feedback on quality, topics of interest, etc. So, you can still contribute and will find the existing community to be welcoming of you (as evidenced by the keys awarded to myself and 11 other newbies for making an effort to join the community). If you're not at all interested in watching esports than this site probably isn't for you anyway.
amen
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Is it better to opt-out so that a few people who may or may not be selfish and may or may not contribute get a beta key and thus we can be happy for their happiness? Or is it better to stay in to ensure that these may-or-may-nots do not get a key and that a better means of giving the keys out will be instilled, hopefully in the favor of community contributors who definitely deserve them?
Ensuring the happiness of someone we aren't sure of yet or ensuring the likelihood of it being recycled toward someone who we can mutually agree deserves it (probably more than many, if not all of us, on this list).
What do you guys think? It seems like the primary conflict of my mind at the moment. I would gladly opt-out with the knowledge that these keys will be put to good use or be given to deserving individuals. But I suppose the problem is that I cannot be sure. No one can be sure, that's what makes the situation difficult, doesn't it?
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Braavos36370 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:11 jhNz wrote:
i just skimmed through the last pages of the thread and i guess i need some clarification on this new rule... will everyone have to resubmit their nominations during those two hours or just the guys out of the list in this thread?
Everyone that wishes to remain in the contest will have to post their intentions within two hours of the deadline or they are automatically removed.
I will give an example.
Let's say the list includes: User1, User2, User3, User4, User5. Everyone else has opted out. At two hours before the deadline (when the new rule takes effect), users 1-4 all post. User5 does not.
The list now is User1, User2, User3, User4. User5 is considered removed until he posts. If the number of keys is four, and User5 does not post before deadline, everyone gets keys. If User5 posts, then any one of them can opt out for the remaining four users to all get keys. If none of the five opt out, then nobody gets keys.
Sounds a little confusing but if you think about it, it makes sense.
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On April 18 2010 09:00 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).
so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.
u gonna change ur life philosophy now?? Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration. i just checked your post history because i was curious about whether or not baller was correct. while it's true that you registered in 2009, simply registering an account on TL doesn't make you part of the community. so lets take a look at what you have contributed to TL: 15 total posts 4 of them are in "Nominate Someone to Win a Beta Key" including one post being an image macro (these were your 3 of your first 4 posts) 1 post speculating about balancing force field 10 of them are in this thread, "Beta Key Self-Nominators" sounds like you fit the bill of " didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key" pretty well.
contribution of posts you can see very well, so there's no need for me to add here. Also, i dont see need to justify myself anywhere, because i was interested in understanding why there is so much hate on this thread. Read my original post on the nomination thread and come back and say i was spamming. And i already told at the begining of this thread, that by giving these keys to members with most posts would have been best idea.
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It's going to be interesting to see how the final few hours of this competition end up. TL has created a massive psychological experiment:
Let's say many many people opt out to not look like bad people to the rest of the community. Let's say there are 10 people left, for what they think are 5 beta keys. Let's think about what questions / thoughts they might have:
- (Most obvious) Is saving face worth the loss of a chance to get a beta key?
- If I opt out and people win the contest, I just did something nice for a bunch of stubborn assholes... so is opting out worth it? Would I rather look like a nice guy and let some less generous people win these beta keys or stay in so that nobody wins the beta keys?
On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:13 Cheree wrote:On April 18 2010 08:01 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 07:56 Cheree wrote:On April 18 2010 07:54 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 07:50 3FFA wrote:On April 18 2010 07:44 Slow Motion wrote:On April 18 2010 07:43 3FFA wrote:On April 18 2010 07:40 huameng wrote:On April 18 2010 07:36 3FFA wrote:
I think that TL handled this all wrong though. Why no drawing at all? That makes it so that there is no point in this. You could've at least selected some more users that are great contributors(like in the news post) instead of doing this. Now that I realize whats happening for real I just wish I hadn't nominated myself at all. -.- I'm starting to wonder why I should trust TL's staff at all anymore.
edit: edited for change of meaning. Why do you think all the keys from the nomination thread are being used in this contest? Ya but I didn't realize how they would handle the contest. This is just cruel. They should have just said that you can't nominate yourself instead of "and yes, you can nominate yourself". Nah, they're just trying to extract as much amusement from the keys as possible while giving them away. Good entertainment for the rest of us. Ya but for those who opted-in its just cruel and mean. I might've expected this from the normal users but not the STAFF! =( I think you're taking this way too seriously. A lot of new users have posted and interacted a lot in this thread, and as a result we've gotten to know them much better. That's a positive side effect we can take away from this regardless of what happens. And we've gotten to know the staff a lot better as well. I don't understand, are you trying to be passive aggressive or something here? Because throughout this entire thread I've not bashed one user for self-nomination nor have I attacked anyone for not opting out. This thread is a fun competition where users who wouldn't have gotten keys get opportunities to get keys. It's also generated many pages of discussion and as a result we know a lot of users better. I'm not talking about your posts, but your design. This contest is designed to fail from the get go, whether intentional or not. The design is sound. HB will live up to it an hand out the keys. There's nothing misleading. It's the people partaking. I can't see how you're arguing around this.
Reasons supporting the claim that this contest was designed to fail in the first place:
- Most of the self-nominees have less than 10 posts on TL.net and could care less about what the TL community thinks of them - thus, they will stay opted in.
- Even if the number of contest participants is whittled down to a very small number (say, 10), there is very little incentive to opt out at that point (the previous point also factors into this one).
Obviously, if the number of people left in the contest actually is the number of keys TL has left, I'm sure HB will give them out. But this contest was clearly not designed for that end result, and is more of a prove-a-point thread... which some self-nominees clearly still do not understand.
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Braavos36370 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list. You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it.
And we will fulfill that promise. 10 keys will go to the people from the nomination thread. I am just stating that its very unlikely the low post self-nominators are going to receive a key that way.
Also, nobody said that this thread is drawing from the same pool of keys as the nomination thread. It could be new keys from the sky, or keys that we bred in underground facilities. We never said we only had 50 keys or that we didn't receive more. Before people freak out, no, I am not saying we have more.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:21 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list. You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it. And we will fulfill that promise. 10 keys will go to the people from the nomination thread. I am just stating that its very unlikely the low post self-nominators are going to receive a key from the nomination thread.
So you're sure where they'll go then
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Braavos36370 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:23 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:21 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list. You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it. And we will fulfill that promise. 10 keys will go to the people from the nomination thread. I am just stating that its very unlikely the low post self-nominators are going to receive a key from the nomination thread. So you're sure where they'll go then
I'm not sure where they are going because I'm not in charge of that, but I can say they most likely will not go to low post count self nominators.
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On April 18 2010 09:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:00 LosingID8 wrote:On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).
so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.
u gonna change ur life philosophy now?? Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration. i just checked your post history because i was curious about whether or not baller was correct. while it's true that you registered in 2009, simply registering an account on TL doesn't make you part of the community. so lets take a look at what you have contributed to TL: 15 total posts 4 of them are in "Nominate Someone to Win a Beta Key" including one post being an image macro (these were your 3 of your first 4 posts) 1 post speculating about balancing force field 10 of them are in this thread, "Beta Key Self-Nominators" sounds like you fit the bill of " didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key" pretty well. contribution of posts you can see very well, so there's no need for me to add here. Also, i dont see need to justify myself anywhere, because i was interested in understanding why there is so much hate on this thread. Read my original post on the nomination thread and come back and say i was spamming. And i already told at the begining of this thread, that by giving these keys to members with most posts would have been best idea.
And I already answered that post to a larger extent than I'm gonna do here by saying that having a high post count doesnt automatically mean contributing to the site, but I'm relatively sure that you didn't answer my post.
There are some really low post count people that have contributed way more than I for example have.
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Germany2762 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:21 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list. You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it. And we will fulfill that promise. 10 keys will go to the people from the nomination thread. I am just stating that its very unlikely the low post self-nominators are going to receive a key that way. Also, nobody said that this thread is drawing from the same pool of keys as the nomination thread. It could be new keys from the sky, or keys that we bred in underground facilities. We never said we only had 50 keys or that we didn't receive more. Before people freak out, no, I am not saying we have more.
does that mean that if i have more than one nomination (which i could have from myself) i don't have to re-enter during the last two hours?
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On April 18 2010 09:10 phlamez wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 08:54 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:42 phlamez wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 18 2010 08:27 Cheree wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 08:09 phlamez wrote:On April 18 2010 08:02 Cheree wrote:On April 18 2010 07:56 phlamez wrote:
Some food for thought. Imagine you're on a lifeboat with a maximum capacity of 30 people and currently there are 60. You have to self opt yourselves to drown in order to save others and if none of you choose to do so you'll all drown. Do you want to do nothing and hope that other people are better human beings than you or take responsibility over your own fate and do something that might actually matter.
Once again someone with a bad analogy. The keys won't be destroyed if people don't opt out. People won't drown if people don't sacrifice themselves. They'll just find a better way of deciding who gets the keys/lifeboat seat. Wanting this contest to fail is the best course of action imo, cause the process of determining who gets a key is fucked up and doesn't even match with the intention of picking who's the most deserving. Read the entire post before commenting. 1. Its an analogy, are you serious? People won't drown if they don't opt out of this contest? Really? I had no idea when I suggested that the situation would be similar that no one was drowning in this contest. My bad. 2. The intentions do match up, the intention has always been to promote community, initially this was through rewarding those who have contributed to this community, now its through demonstrating that when it comes down to it we can still behave as a community and be truly happy for others in this community to have keys. 3. Read my original post, the keys may not be destroyed if the people don't opt out, but our sense of community will certainly take a hit. Maybe I'm the only person who feels this way but I will certainly think a lot less of TL and of the people belonging to it if the people in this thread can't look beyond their own self interests. 4. You don't seem to get that the situation has changed, it's not simply a question of who gets keys anymore, its about how people behave when presented with this situation. The beta isn't going to last forever, everyone will get to play the game at some point, who gets or who doesn't get a key will have little impact, how you all behave today will have a much more lasting impression. About 1, you were the one who brought up the analogy where drowning would be the equivalent of no one wins, when in fact that is not the case. If no one wins, the keys will be distributed again. 2. The intention was to give people who are most deserving the key. People have various reasons for staying or opting out, not necessarily because they want to promote community. If there's one bad apple, which there is bound to be, the whole intention of the contest goes tits up. 3. The contest was designed to fail from the start, I don't see how you could expect it to succeed. In the perfect world, those who dont think they deserve the key would step down in favor of those who do. In reality, that's not true. So even if this contest ends up with winners, they won't be the most deserving like intended and leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who were more deserving than them. 4. In the long run, it will have little impact. TL has a chance of showing what kind of community they promote, yet this contest is pitting people against eachother and those who are selfless are not the ones being rewarded if this contest succeeds. 1. I was being sarcastic, my point was that analogies aren't supposed to be 1 to 1. 2. Implicit in the idea of giving people who are most deserving of the key is the idea of community. You have control over your intentions and the intentions of others aren't an excuse to not act. 3. This is ridiculously jaded, and I don't believe for a second that hotbid designed this contest to fail. This 'test' puts too much faith in the community. HotBid is being incredibly naive if he thinks the community will sort itself out. You could have someone staying in the contest... ..because they truly believe they deserve it over someone else ..because they're an ass ..because they want to prevent that ass from getting a key ..because they have no faith in the design and want to see the keys handed out a better way ... You could have someone opting out cause... ...they feel they're undeserving compared to the rest. ...they want to appear to be selfless to the community, regarldless if they are or not. ...they didn't check the forums ...they think opt-outers will win despite what HB says since he's made up rules on the fly ... Basically, whether or not this contest has winners is not telling of a good community. I personally rather see this contest fail. Intentions are impossible to know with 100% accuracy, that doesn't change the fact that we can assign probabilities to whether or not people had a good or bad intention based on how they acted. It's more likely than not that people who are opting in are doing it for selfish reasons. The people who are staying in to prevent others from getting the key or because they don't like the system are being vocal about it, most of the people who are staying in fall in the first two categories and both are selfish. It's more likely than not that people who are opting out are doing it for good reasons, we will be able to verify exactly how many opt out due to negligence, I highly doubt that more than 10 people opted out because they think they will win (is the 27th person who opts out really hoping to win a key by being the 27th person?), a handful will want to be perceived as selfless but how lasting of an impression do you think being one of 60 (or more) people who opted out will be.
I agree, you can't know the intentions of everyone. For both the rewards of the beta keys and karma, you can't categorically say opt-inners are more deserving than opt-outters. You'll have to verify their posts. You stress that intention is important, yet this contest doesn't reward intention, it's advertised to reward people who picked to opt-in no matter what they intended. It's not like there's someone reading everyone's post to figure out who made what decision for what intention and them compile a list of people with good intentions. This contest fails to reward people who value community like you claim.
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I officially opt-out
Regardless of the result, I'm going to place my faith in TL. I don't know whether or not this is a legitimate scenario. Some speculate that it is simply an experiment designed to prove a point. Others speculate it is legit. What stops it from being both? I don't know, it could be, or it could just be one of them. Either way, I think things will be good in the end.
Although I still feel that getting a beta key would be highly beneficial to my cause, my worth to this community and the YouTube is not going to be defined by having or not having a beta key. And to go even further, my intentions of contributing are not going to be defined by it either.
This whole scenario appears to have warped into something quite twisted, but because we don't really know what's going on behind-the-scenes, we could simply have a distorted perception. There might not be anything to fret over at all.
I can't really pinpoint in my mind exactly what the reason is for my decision to opt-out. It might be because I believe that I can still contribute something legitimate without it, that I don't need it to do something for TL and the YouTube community. It might be because I realize that this isn't the end; that beta opportunities will come in the future, and that SC2 is still very young. It might just be because I'm tired. Or it might be for a completely different reason that I can't seem to think of at the moment.
I opt-out and hope for the best, for everyone. Cheers to all.  TL ftw.
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This is amazing
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Braavos36370 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:28 jhNz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:21 Hot_Bid wrote:On April 18 2010 09:15 Pholon wrote:On April 18 2010 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
Not sure, but they won't go to the people on the list. You promised 10 to people from the nomi thread. This tangent is awesome but imo you can't take them away from it. And we will fulfill that promise. 10 keys will go to the people from the nomination thread. I am just stating that its very unlikely the low post self-nominators are going to receive a key that way. Also, nobody said that this thread is drawing from the same pool of keys as the nomination thread. It could be new keys from the sky, or keys that we bred in underground facilities. We never said we only had 50 keys or that we didn't receive more. Before people freak out, no, I am not saying we have more. does that mean that if i have more than one nomination (which i could have from myself) i don't have to re-enter during the last two hours?
You aren't even on this list. Self nominator contest (this thread) is entirely separate from the other nomination thread and beta key giveaway.
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CA10824 Posts
On April 18 2010 09:20 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 09:00 LosingID8 wrote:On April 18 2010 08:55 NightOfTheDead wrote:On April 18 2010 08:49 baller wrote:
TL have a rule in the 10 commandments that says "thou shalt contribute to the site". this 10 commandments is linked 2 every new user so they have to read it b4 posting. but many of these users (including urself) didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key, so u violated a commandment (rule of TL).
so no, 20 post users who didnt contribute and then entered the contest didnt follow the rules.
u gonna change ur life philosophy now?? Nice assumptions! If im gonna change philosophy, your assumptions is the last thing i will take into consideration. i just checked your post history because i was curious about whether or not baller was correct. while it's true that you registered in 2009, simply registering an account on TL doesn't make you part of the community. so lets take a look at what you have contributed to TL: 15 total posts 4 of them are in "Nominate Someone to Win a Beta Key" including one post being an image macro (these were your 3 of your first 4 posts) 1 post speculating about balancing force field 10 of them are in this thread, "Beta Key Self-Nominators" sounds like you fit the bill of " didnt contribute and just spammed to get a key" pretty well. contribution of posts you can see very well, so there's no need for me to add here. Also, i dont see need to justify myself anywhere, because i was interested in understanding why there is so much hate on this thread. Read my original post on the nomination thread and come back and say i was spamming. And i already told at the begining of this thread, that by giving these keys to members with most posts would have been best idea.
to clarify, i'm not attempting to vilify you and i don't really have anything against you personally. like you said, based on your first post in the nomination thread you seem like an ok guy.
i am however trying to point out that nominating yourself with your first-ever post from the perspective of people who have been around TL a lot and have contributed is unseemly.
you've been a member since august 2009 so it isn't like you just found out about TL yesterday. and yet you never bothered to post until we announced that we were giving out beta keys. my question to you (and all the other lurkers) is why?
contributing to TL can take place in many forms. sure there are the more "glamorous" and obvious things like writing news articles, translating interviews, and streaming the leagues. however TL is more than just a place about starcraft. it's a community that brings a lot of diverse people who happen to share a niche hobby. you can contribute on this site even if all your posts have nothing to do with starcraft at all. have a unique hobby? blog about it like fuddx does with his balloons! have your bachelors in polisci? feel free to take part in political debates that occur all the time on TL. it could be more general than that too. do you have a great sense of humor? everyone loves reading funny posts, whether they are simply good jokes or clever flames. are you an artist? share your original comics with us! and finally, a great way to to contribute to TL is to simply foster a sense of community by getting to know others better by chatting with people on IRC or gaming with them on bw.
anyway now that you've started posting i hope that you continue to do so. this message applies to all the other former-lurkers all well.
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