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On March 04 2010 08:52 MorroW wrote:
everyone hates the hellion, ppl who say they like it just wanna be smartasses or want attention. seriously i love all new sc2 units really much and all about the game but the hellion is just a big joke. its not a joke because the vulture was cooler or because its a new unit that didnt come from bw. its a joke because its a non-futuristic unit. they could just replace it with a chariot with bowmen in and i couldnt see the difference, maybe im overexadurating a bit but u get my point xd
banshee and reapers r better at harassing than this go cart
i just dont see mech play being possible without vultures who can shoot out of their asses and mines and that makes me sad to be forced to play bio vs both p and z :/
I agree that the RC car look has to go. But come on, the Banshee costs 150/100 and the Reaper is horrible in anything that isn't harass, which isn't true for the Hellion.
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seriously if blizzard listens to TL people wanting lurkers, mines, and reavers back. we will end up with almost the same game as sc1 unit by unit.
so what if everyone got the unit they wanted back? you will have sc2 with like one or 2 new units only.. it will be sc1 in 3d.
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On March 04 2010 09:10 zimz wrote:
seriously if blizzard listens to TL people wanting lurkers, mines, and reavers back. we will end up with almost the same game as sc1 unit by unit.
so what if everyone got the unit they wanted back? you will have sc2 with like one or 2 new units only.. it will be sc1 in 3d.
and who wants that? 3d sucks.
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hellion sucks big time. this unit looking so cheap and boring gameplay
bring back the vulture
thanks blizzard.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2010 09:10 zimz wrote:
so what if everyone got the unit they wanted back? you will have sc2 with like one or 2 new units only.. it will be sc1 in 3d.
Actually, I'd prefer high-resolution 2D to 3D.
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I'd prefer it if we could separate people who hate the look of the hellion (i.e. the so-called "buggy" model) from people who hate it gameplay-wise. Because it seems like most people who dislike it start off hating the model and then go from there to spouting out a bunch of stuff about how it sucks gameplay-wise and advocate. I can't help but think that many of these people would have no problem with the Hellion if it looked different.
The reason I'm asking is that, from I'm standing, the Hellion looks great gameplay-wise; it's an anti-light unit with an interesting attack mechanic and a good niche in the Terran army. And I'd hate to see it go just because a bunch of people have an irrational hatred of wheels.
So let's figure this out: who hates the unit, who just hates the model, who hates both, and which did you hate first? And please note: if you like the unit but simply think the Vulture would be more interesting, that's fine, but it's not what the poll is asking.
Poll: Which best describes you?
(Vote): I hate the Hellion model, AND I hate it gameplay wise.
(Vote): I hate the Hellion model, but I don't hate it gameplay-wise.
(Vote): I don't hate the Hellion model, but I do hate it gameplay wise.
(Vote): I don't hate the Hellion. Period.
Poll: Which did you hate first?
(Vote): I saw the model, and I wanted to puke. Then I saw how much it sucked in game.
(Vote): I played around with it in-game for a while, and it really sucked. The model's lame, too.
(Vote): I don't remember either way. I've hated it as long as I've been alive.
(Vote): Um...I already said I didn't hate it.
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I personally think the hellion just needs to get insta-fire such that it can kite the way the vulture used to be able to do. That would make it so much better. But then again, anything would make it better as it is right now x]
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Helions can take out groups of zeals and unspeeded zerglings by kiting, even zeals with charge/speed. The toss has to micro way harder than you to avoid that issue (even then, they don't get much off it).
If zerg is massing speedlings, you can cost effectively tear them apart with Helions. No, you can't kite them - but you don't have to. Helions are also cost effective against Hydras. The trick here is that you can't just let your helions engage their hydras at range 5 - you have to run your helions up next to them and then let them fire to get the most out of their line-attack. Hydras are light, and Helions do 24 in a line against Light. One shot could easily hit 3 or 4 of them if you do it right. That's huge damage for a minerals-only unit.
Go watch CowsGoMoo's replay pack to see this in action - he starts most games against Zerg by rushing Helions, and he's a great player (maybe the best terran right now?) playing in platinum league.
They're still very effective as chafe against Protoss. When a toss ball is attacking, their splash (along with tank splash) makes short work of the opening zeal charge, and they still do a good job of tying up Stalkers after that.
You can also punish Toss for leaving his base to attack by using Helions to kill probes.
No, they aren't Vultures. Still, they have a place.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2010 10:55 RPGabe wrote:
Go watch CowsGoMoo's replay pack to see this in action - he starts most games against Zerg by rushing Helions, and he's a great player (maybe the best terran right now?) playing in platinum league.
This. CGM's Hellion openings are pretty sick. Watching a couple of his games with them should make someone at least reevaluate their opinion on the Hellion (at least in terms of gameplay--I still agree it looks awkward).
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LOL I just got home from work and saw this. Touche.
Apparently you win :O
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On March 04 2010 09:10 zimz wrote:
seriously if blizzard listens to TL people wanting lurkers, mines, and reavers back. we will end up with almost the same game as sc1 unit by unit.
so what if everyone got the unit they wanted back? you will have sc2 with like one or 2 new units only.. it will be sc1 in 3d.
No. I like new units and new mechanics. But hellion is not good enough as a replacement, so Blizzard should at least improve it.
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.. and it's not like they're beyond saving.. just a slightly faster rxn time would make them sexy as hell.. it' just when early zealots get in your base and you can't utilize the hellions speed to deal with the rush.
I will say though.. that if you're in the middle of the map.. you can run away /// like alot more than you would with the vulture.. and you can micro effectively that way.. but in close quarters... against aggressive tear one units.. the helion should be much faster on the draw.
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To be honest, I don't really care about the units at the moment. There will be 2 expansions and I believe each race will get 2-3 new units / each expansion. I'll get rage if the second expansion beta doesnt have good units, but for now, relax man 
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Has anybody actually tried messing with the Hellion to try and get it to attack + move at the same time?
Patrol, Hold Position, Stop, Attack-Move, and Move along with Qeueing all could play a part in "unlocking" the ability to hit and run, much like other micro tactics in SC1.
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i don't care about the vulture, but i hated the hellion as soon as i saw it. it's the worst looking/least cool idea for a new unit in SC2. it's a stupid dune buggy, and a flame throwing vehicle is so.. idk.. cliche unimaginative sci-fi. the idea of a flame throwing vehicle is just so lame. one of the great things about SC is how the visual feel of each race is so unique and so cohesive. the hellion doesn't feel cohesive with the terran or the SC universe as a whole.
also the way that they stop moving to shoot looks really clunky compared to vulture micro.
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On March 04 2010 03:52 skypacer wrote:
Compared with their counterpart in SC1, hellion is the most f**cking disappointing unit of starcraft 2.
Couldn't agree more.
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it's going to be a very good unit in a different way then vultures were a really good unit. it's a different unit. like people said it's more similar to a lurker. you can't patrol micro a hellion, so what? it's not a vulture, you can't patrol micro a lurker and no one says lurkers suck?
Lurkers are good? yea. people can agree with that right? then i don't see how hellion can suck that bad and receive so much hate. lurkers cost gas while hellions are mineral only. that's huge. lurkers are pretty fragile and requires zerglings to "tank" for them so they can get into position as damage dealers.
The unit is still too weak though since it's a good vs light only unit. Vultures had spider mines to deal with units that it cannot deal significant dmg to like dragoons. The hellions needs to have some kind of ability that will make it useful against non-light units.
Also with the new shield system, units don't deal full damage to shields which made vultures very useful. they took down dragoons' shields in 4 hits. in SC2 system vultures would take 16 hits just to bring down the shields of dragoons. This is also why hellions suck because 8 dmg to shields of non-light units are pathetic. If hellions were able to do 24 to shields, i can see them being very good damage dealers, with tank marauder marines finishing off the rest of the health of enemy units.
TLDR
hellioins are
1) different units, different usages (don't even compare micro; not the same)
2) good damage dealers in position (not attack move and lose them all)
3) only good against light and needs something against non-light (be creative - no spider mines)
4) not as good damage dealers to non-light because of new shield system
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Spider mines were fun to watch, but even without them, SC2 is complete. It is possible that we'll see more of them in the expansion (we have two expansion worth of units to be added, after all), but I feel right now, that the Hellion is a complete unit and it suits the terran.
The graphic for the hellion does annoy me a bit though, not much - I'll get used to it.
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hellion is basically a combination of the firebat and the vulture. whoever designed the flame thrower dune buggy should be fired, because the answer is obvious.
firebat on a motorcycle. so much more badass. riding around like a badass shooting flames out of his hands saying badass things.
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EPT
