As mentioned above Vultures were not intended to be used how they are today. Patrol move was not an intended feature of the game but like many of the games glitches they chose to continue to balance around the glitch instead of fixing it. They were considered shit for the longest time before this glitch was discovered. Mines being gone does not phase me. I loved them and still do, but I also love the (idea behind, maybe not the actual stats yet) baneling and how it works in comparison to the mine when it comes to map control and detection. Excalibur_Z made a very good point that you need a few before they become effective. This is a very important point. You have to decide when the best time to retreat with your remaining Hellions, because unlike with Vultures the less of them their are the less chance you have of each hellions death being ecconomically justified. I am glad Blizz has steered away from units which are overly cost effective, and I love the Hellion.
On March 04 2010 05:32 DeCoup wrote: As mentioned above Vultures were not intended to be used how they are today. Patrol move was not an intended feature of the game but like many of the games glitches they chose to continue to balance around the glitch instead of fixing it. They were considered shit for the longest time before this glitch was discovered. Mines being gone does not phase me. I loved them and still do, but I also love the (idea behind, maybe not the actual stats yet) baneling and how it works in comparison to the mine when it comes to map control and detection. Excalibur_Z made a very good point that you need a few before they become effective. This is a very important point. You have to decide when the best time to retreat with your remaining Hellions, because unlike with Vultures the less of them their are the less chance you have of each hellions death being ecconomically justified. I am glad Blizz has steered away from units which are overly cost effective, and I love the Hellion.
LOL, it wasn't a glitch, it just simply a feature in the game engine, or rather, a lack of turning animation and no actual firing time. So, no, using vulture/muta micro is not abusing game glitches, it's using how the game is designed to your advantage. Stacking hydras was a glitch, kiting isn't. Sc2 kinda killed kiting with its unnecessary attack delay and long uncancellable attack animation.
First of all, half of the battle takes place on creep where the zerglings run faster and can easily catch up.
Second, zerglings in general are near impossible to run from, let alone kite, because they attack while moving now.
Basically, as someone mentioned earlier, I remember people saying the same thing about vultures years ago. On top of that, if you try to put it in the niche left by the vulture you will be dissapointed. This is not meant to be a replacement for the vulture but rather a mobile unit with a positional attack (like a cheap/fast lurker). It will have its place in games.
Complain and whine all you want about what YOU think of their graphics and animations. I suppose that matters if you are 12 years old or something.
Complain and whine all you want that YOU can't micro them. Sorry that doesn't make them a terrible unit.
The Hellion is cheap (NO GAS!) and can be made 2 at a time with a reactor... They are super fast and can be put 4 at a time into a drop ship. How can you not love this unit? Drop, FLAMES, OH GOD ALL MY WORKERS ARE DEAD, pick them up take them to an expansion, OH GOD MORE WORKERS ARE DEAD! Opponent GGs.
The price of 1 command center = the destruction of the saturated workers of your opponents...
On March 04 2010 04:14 hey88 wrote: hellions also cost 125, which i think is ridiculous.
They're 100 minerals.
Which is still hilariously overpriced when compared to what you got for 75 minerals from a vulture
Honestly, mech in SC2 has only gotten nerfed. Tank? More expensive, higher supply, many more counters.
Vulture/Hellion? More expensive, slower, not as good at harassing, no spider mines.
On March 04 2010 05:32 DeCoup wrote: As mentioned above Vultures were not intended to be used how they are today. Patrol move was not an intended feature of the game but like many of the games glitches they chose to continue to balance around the glitch instead of fixing it. They were considered shit for the longest time before this glitch was discovered. Mines being gone does not phase me. I loved them and still do, but I also love the (idea behind, maybe not the actual stats yet) baneling and how it works in comparison to the mine when it comes to map control and detection. Excalibur_Z made a very good point that you need a few before they become effective. This is a very important point. You have to decide when the best time to retreat with your remaining Hellions, because unlike with Vultures the less of them their are the less chance you have of each hellions death being ecconomically justified. I am glad Blizz has steered away from units which are overly cost effective, and I love the Hellion.
The patrol glitch is WAAAAAAAAAAY more newschool than vulture usage ;p They were considered evil little bastards years before that was discovered.
On March 04 2010 05:53 buhhy wrote: LOL, it wasn't a glitch, it just simply a feature in the game engine, or rather, a lack of turning animation and no actual firing time. So, no, using vulture/muta micro is not abusing game glitches, it's using how the game is designed to your advantage. Stacking hydras was a glitch, kiting isn't. Sc2 kinda killed kiting with its unnecessary attack delay and long uncancellable attack animation.
It's funny that people keep saying this, given that I find that microing marines vs. zealots in SC2 is actually easier than in SC1.
On March 04 2010 05:53 buhhy wrote: LOL, it wasn't a glitch, it just simply a feature in the game engine, or rather, a lack of turning animation and no actual firing time. So, no, using vulture/muta micro is not abusing game glitches, it's using how the game is designed to your advantage. Stacking hydras was a glitch, kiting isn't. Sc2 kinda killed kiting with its unnecessary attack delay and long uncancellable attack animation.
It's funny that people keep saying this, given that I find that microing marines vs. zealots in SC2 is actually easier than in SC1.
Well, I was trying out doing patrol micro with the Mutalisk, the Phoenix and Hellion and the units just kinda stop moving, attack, and can't move until the attack animation is over.
I personally dont like the hellion just because it looks like a cute toy car, but all this arguing about how the vulture does this and that is irrelevant. Maybe some people need to realize that not every unit in sc2 has to be played in the exact same way a bw unit was.
the hellion shouldn't be used alone, that's not where it shines. However, is you pair it with the reaper and go harassing then I think you'll have one hell of a time.
On March 04 2010 06:30 def0 wrote: Hellions are not vultures, they are firebats.
And this my friends is true. Firebats are missing, but you dont see a single thread about that. Reason? Hellions replaced them and people dont feel the loss.
On March 04 2010 06:42 RAZROK wrote: And this my friends is true. Firebats are missing, but you dont see a single thread about that. Reason? Hellions replaced them and people dont feel the loss.
Firebat's weren't used often in SC1, while vulture were one of the best terran units that could have been used during any match up. I don't miss the firebats but i hell sure miss the vulture. Also i could remember all those time i played UMS maps with vulture micro.
I think the people who are trying to micro hellions against zerglings like they would with vultures are doing it wrong. It seems to me that micro of the wraith versus scourge would be more effective, meaning that it can't be showcased with one vulture (retreat three hellions, split them, the two not being chased fry the zerglings and back off if the zerglings switch targets; I can see control groups of zerglings getting slagged this way.)
Like wraiths and scourge, simply turning around and trying to get a shot off on the scourge totally isn't going to work, but that doesn't mean that they can't be microed.
People are just going to whine, whine, whine, whine. Then play sc:bw and dont whine. There is a purpose for everything and its all to be discovered. Why are u using sc:bw techniques in sc2 and think that they should work? Its two sepperate games.
the vulture was a balanced unit when starcraft was released at the end of bw, it was absolutely ridiculously overpowered. if it was to rearrive in sc2, it'd have to cost 125 minerals or something.
EPT
