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I love the hellion. I think it represents a lot of what's lacking in SC2: A pure fighter unit, that has no spells, and is actually pretty weak, but when you micro it well it does absolutely insane damage. Someone compared it to the lurker... well I can agree with that, but then it's an easy-mode lurker.
My first impression when the unit was announced was: Great! They keep on giving retarded spells to units, finally a unit that actually requires pure micro, and not just half-assed spell usage, to be effcient.
And the Hellion delivers, it can wreak havoc in any melee units if you use it well, and it'll even own some light ranged units like marines if the numbers are right (6-8 hellions that rush in on a huge ball of marines that are focusing elsewhere... believe me it feels great).
I don't think the hellion needs a buff, and I just can't wait to see some top-players use them in pimp plays. I expect to see some great plays out of these buggies.
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It seems to me like the hellion might work very well in a terran mech opening. It really sounds to me like it has usefulness throughout the game.
you can build them for early defense, because they should be great at fighting zerglings/zealots, put early pressure on and force your opponent to defend, because they should be great versus workers. Then, you can scout for expansions because they are super fast, and hold down watch towers, because they are cheap enough to be disposable, and are also good enough that your opponent won't be able to just send a couple zerglings to take one out. Next, you can protect your siege tanks and thors as you move out, because they should be really good at cleaning zerglings and broodlings off of your other mech units, and protecting building from ling snipes.
Plus, they should be highly droppable, simply because while they do equivalent damage to a vulture, they are now AOE to make up for the lack of microing ability.
And if you do break into an opponent's base frontally, they can rush ahead and take out the worker line super fast, or block the ramp with the aoe.
It may not be the vulture at all, but it sounds to me like it might be a new unit that fits with the rest of the terran gameplan well.
I find it strange to hear that everyone expects them to be a vulture. Tons of units were already removed from the game. Even if the hellion can't do the job of the vulture, it sounds like it can do it's own job.
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On March 04 2010 07:14 EmeraldSparks wrote:
I think the people who are trying to micro hellions against zerglings like they would with vultures are doing it wrong. It seems to me that micro of the wraith versus scourge would be more effective, meaning that it can't be showcased with one vulture (retreat three hellions, split them, the two not being chased fry the zerglings and back off if the zerglings switch targets; I can see control groups of zerglings getting slagged this way.)
Like wraiths and scourge, simply turning around and trying to get a shot off on the scourge totally isn't going to work, but that doesn't mean that they can't be microed.
Emerald sparks with a new idea and answers the calling to discover how to micro a unit of SCII Well done emerald. Thread finished.
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On March 04 2010 07:21 RAZROK wrote:
People are just going to whine, whine, whine, whine. Then play sc:bw and dont whine. There is a purpose for everything and its all to be discovered. Why are u using sc:bw techniques in sc2 and think that they should work? Its two sepperate games.
Or it's a terrible unit. SCII should have mechanics extremely similar to BW.
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It doesn't and it shouldn't. You just want it to, so that all the tricks you've learned in BW immediately translate, letting you pwn noobs in a familiar setting. Build more than 2 hellions in 4 games, give the unit an honest shot, and I'll bet you won't call it crap. Model and animation aside
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2010 07:35 synapse wrote:
SCII should have mechanics extremely similar to BW.
I'm not saying that I disagree, but is there any possible objective argument to support this? Because I can't think of any reasonable one.
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Units in SC:BW were way more interesting than the ones in Sc2; however, Blizz has two expansions to add way more interesting units.
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On March 04 2010 07:35 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2010 07:21 RAZROK wrote:
People are just going to whine, whine, whine, whine. Then play sc:bw and dont whine. There is a purpose for everything and its all to be discovered. Why are u using sc:bw techniques in sc2 and think that they should work? Its two sepperate games. Or it's a terrible unit. SCII should have mechanics extremely similar to BW.
So would you rather have a repackaged broodwar, in shiny and sparkly 3D?
I for one would pass on that. I want to have to figure the game out, find new ways to use units and new situations where those units are effective. What is the point of calling the game Starcraft II (TWO, 2) if it works exactly the same as starcraft 1.5? I welcome the challenge and opportunity the new game and units bring.
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all u terrans just want to siege, mind and turret up for another 10 years. ... .
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come on blizzard listen to fan!! change design and name....
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wooow some people love hellions and some don't.
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Starcraft II doesn't need to be mechanically similar to Starcraft I. But it should retain the exciting, dynamic, and suspenseful elements of gameplay that made Starcraft I great. It's pretty clear that the possibilities of Hellions is less than that of Vultures (which basically were the unit with the most uses in the entire game) but I'm not convinced that the Hellion is as microless or stupid as people are trying to make out.
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I think it's too early to really call the hellion overpriced; as-is it's one of only two mineral-only combat units for T.
Marines are 50 minerals for 6 (+1 per upgrade) damage vs ground or air; 55 hp after combat shields; and have stim. 20 second build time and of course they use 1 supply.
Hellions are 100 minerals for 8 (+1 per upgrade) + 16 (+1 per upgrade) to light damage vs ground with line splash (after preigniter); they have 90 HP. 30 second build time, and they use 2 supply.
Just from looking at the numbers it looks to me like hellions are better against ground units for their cost. The durability is generally similar (hellions are better vs stuff like storm or colossi, but have less HP per mineral), and while marines deal better single-target damage to non-light units, hellions en masse have splash to most likely come out even (this will probably take lots of play time to really figure out) and they just incinerate light units.
Of course, marines are better vs air, and have stim and get healed by medevacs. They're also built from barracks, a nice plus since you can build those with only minerals while you need gas for factories. Hellions move a lot faster and build faster for their cost (though again this is probably negated by the fact they're from factories instead of barracks). And I don't know the relative attack cooldowns--my guess is Hellions have longer cooldown, but it's not a huge cooldown.
I mean, from looking at the stats I can't say for sure which unit is better to pour excess minerals into. Neither is going to be the backbone of your army, but with how fast you mine minerals compared to gas that's fine--they're there just so you have a way to spend those minerals on your army.
My first impression is that hellions are a bit expensive for what they do--maybe they should cost 75 minerals; certainly not less than that though--but maybe as people try more things they'll turn out to be more effective than I think.
Infernal preigniter's price does strike me as a bit high also, but then again ... all the mineral-only units in the game are light units except for overlords and warp prisms which hellions won't be attacking anyway; and queens which aren't exactly a great combat unit.
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Personally I like the unit and I'm planning to mess around with them a lot once I can. They seem really fun.
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To me the hellions just a ground only Valkyrie, it's mainly unused except in certain situations =\ leave the worker harass to reapers
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My biggest gripe with it is how it looks. Looks like a remote controlled car. Im sure the artists can do a better job.
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I ..love the hellion. Come on guys it's a fast unit with freaking lurker like splash damage. Of course one sucks against 12 zerglings on creep(lol) but when you get to the 3+ numbers in early game in my opinion with decent micro you would be able to do mine-like damage.
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everyone hates the hellion, ppl who say they like it just wanna be smartasses or want attention. seriously i love all new sc2 units really much and all about the game but the hellion is just a big joke. its not a joke because the vulture was cooler or because its a new unit that didnt come from bw. its a joke because its a non-futuristic unit. they could just replace it with a chariot with bowmen in and i couldnt see the difference, maybe im overexadurating a bit but u get my point xd
banshee and reapers r better at harassing than this go cart
i just dont see mech play being possible without vultures who can shoot out of their asses and mines and that makes me sad to be forced to play bio vs both p and z :/
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Hellions are terrible.
As I said in the other thread, they need to give hellions a speed upgrade, and they need to increase the attack speed animation so you can shoot-move-shoot without having to stop for 1second and get surrounded or killed.
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EPT
