EPTZerg is stale - Page 4
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
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ZerglingShepherd
Canada99 Posts
I completely agree that the lurker should be brought back. It was just such a dynamic and interesting unit in SC1, with so many possibilities. | ||
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
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Nyth
Netherlands19 Posts
It's true that Zerg has lost some of its micro flavor that it has in BW. I think one of the main causes on that is the improved AI though. But a lot of zerg fights boil down to just tossing the biggest army of unit X (substitude with lings / roaches / hydras / mutas) at your opponent and either win or lose. I read the OP though and to be honest, though I can see the underlying issue. It's a bunch of QQ. You just keep on going and going how you prefered BW units and how you miss defilers. This is a new game, man up and get to know the new units. Though zerg lost some obvious micro flavor there is still a lot remaining. Don't dismiss something because it's new. There are some really sweet combos. The infestor can be really strong if used defensively. Parasite something like a colossus and you can turn the fight around in a split second. The snare can be quite good too. I agree that the infested terrans kinda suck. But seriously stop bitching because it isnt a copy of BW. | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
Why does SC2 strike me as a huge joke of a game? | ||
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internetwarrior
32 Posts
For people who can't read: the problem isn't that Zerg is "underpowered", just that it's BORING, STALE, compared to SC1. As was very well pointed out, there is no unit that promotes finesse. It's all AMove, win or lose. No, the infestor spells aren't good. Yes, Nydus is another AMove with a shortcut. Yes, roaches are tough and can do damage and be used to harass (although detection is a lot easier to come by in general) but why give Zerg a T1 "tank" unit? Hydras feel wrong at 2 supply, and are slow as hell. No lurkers which is one of the most interesting units gameplay wise because "it doesn't fit lore"? Give me a break, save that line for WOW. If you're going to cut scourge, lurker, defiler and make hydras 2 supply+slow, you better have something interesting to compensate. Right now all we have is the roach. The roach is bland as can be. It doesn't even look good when walking around. To top all this greatness off, the Zerg sound effects in SC2 are also uninspired when not outright bad. I think just about everyone can agree on that. For the obsessive individuals who are seeing just about every complaint as a SC1 nostalgia whine, nobody here is complaining about the novelty factor when it comes to Protoss, for instance. This isn't a biased argument because one JUST cares about Zerg. The new Zerg is objectively not remotely as interesting as the new Toss or Terran. The ONLY saving grace of Zerg in SC2 is larva injection. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
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member1987
141 Posts
ARC - act of random mercy | ||
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internetwarrior
32 Posts
As if Blizzard had to re-learn everything from scratch... | ||
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Ideas
United States8143 Posts
On March 03 2010 00:19 Nyth wrote: I partially agree and partially disagree. It's true that Zerg has lost some of its micro flavor that it has in BW. I think one of the main causes on that is the improved AI though. But a lot of zerg fights boil down to just tossing the biggest army of unit X (substitude with lings / roaches / hydras / mutas) at your opponent and either win or lose. I read the OP though and to be honest, though I can see the underlying issue. It's a bunch of QQ. You just keep on going and going how you prefered BW units and how you miss defilers. This is a new game, man up and get to know the new units. Though zerg lost some obvious micro flavor there is still a lot remaining. Don't dismiss something because it's new. There are some really sweet combos. The infestor can be really strong if used defensively. Parasite something like a colossus and you can turn the fight around in a split second. The snare can be quite good too. I agree that the infested terrans kinda suck. But seriously stop bitching because it isnt a copy of BW. just because its new doesnt mean it has to be boring as shit | ||
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Nuxar
Canada212 Posts
On March 03 2010 00:15 wintergt wrote: The lurker is not a disposable, mass producable unit that moves fast so he doesn't fit the zerg race at all, that's why they took him out. Neither is the Ultralisk and the Broodlord... Although I like the Zerg right now and I would play them when Sc2 comes out, I do agree that they are missing...something. The fell very bland and simple in terms of unit specialization. I would totally agree on bringing the Lurker back. | ||
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SevenAteNine
126 Posts
truthfully we wont see many units FULL potential for months to come and timings are exploited and zerg players figure out timings of when to power drones and when to mass troops. Im like 80% sure people are whining about muta, scourge, lurker, and defiler because those were zergs go to units in SC1 and they are so used to those units that anything else is foreign ground. Terrans dont have the same OP tanks as they did in SC1 and they arnt exactly complaining oh BTW lurkers wernt in original starcraft they were added in the expantion | ||
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Irrelevant
United States2364 Posts
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Go0g3n
Russian Federation410 Posts
I can't be bothered to read all that, heres' my take. Zerg is now: a. Boring. Roaches, an early powerful unit that absolutely needs to be pushed out kills everything it faces and all the fun with it. The role of Zerglings has been downgraded significantly. b. Not challenging at all for Zerg user. The Zerg units setup in StarCraft II reminds me of an early version of StarCraft, pre Brood War. Let's say in StarCraft 1.04 there were no medics, lurkers, corsairs, no muta micro either. Hydralisks were 75 minerals only, later added + 25 gas, they were slower, had shorter attack range (sounds familiar, doesn't it?). Also there was no variation, only unit at Tier 2 was Mutalisk, and it was just as useful as Muta can be without Micro. c. Zerg is now very similar to Protoss in SCBW. It has a strong early unit/combination, like never before. It can easliy live off and produce tons of units with 2 bases, there is no real need to go to Hive Tech, because there're no defilers and new Guardians or whatever they're called just suck. As a result of all that I believe Zerg needs to be retooled. 1. Baneling Nest should be an upgrade for Pool available on Lair Tech, as a trade-off banes should be made more powerful overall, and especially against protoss, maybe 120% hit on shields. 2. Remove 'underground movement' ability from roaches, immense healing speed while burrowed is more than enough. 3. Add a mutation or an upgrade for roach that would make it easier to stop early Protoss immortal push, it needs stopping power, not offensive power. Roach as a unit should not be able to win all the matchups. Perhaps a +defence or +something on your own creep. 4. Bring back lurkers or a variation of Hydralis mutation to create a level 2.5 tech, capable of moving while burrowed. 5. Mutalisks to compensate for the lost micro need some sort of an extra third upgrade extending the range a tiny bit or even better - the amount of consecutively hit targets by whatever they attack with. 6. Zerg needs a better caster unit on 2nd tier, maybe bring back Plague capable of damaging only to 50% or by a set, but short amount/time, slowing regeneration/healing rate, keep mind control ability. 7. Lings need to be a little tougher, maybe at the expense of decreased speed with glands researched. | ||
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
On March 03 2010 01:10 internetwarrior wrote: For 9001 common sense points: guess how much more insight into game mechanics the design team has since SC1 was released! As if Blizzard had to re-learn everything from scratch... How about this: games are different and a mechanic from one doesnt have to apply to the other. lol. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
 i T_T instantly | ||
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internetwarrior
32 Posts
On March 03 2010 04:00 IntoTheWow wrote: How about this: games are different and a mechanic from one doesnt have to apply to the other. lol. So you learn nothing and start from scratch everytime? Silly me thinking you'd build on what you've learned from previous games especially of the same genre (RTS). I guess that's the Argentinian way? | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On March 03 2010 00:15 wintergt wrote: The lurker is not a disposable, mass producable unit that moves fast so he doesn't fit the zerg race at all, that's why they took him out. No, they took him out b/c things don't fit b/c the caster doesn't have a good role and b/c lurkers don't fit at tier 3 seige units. | ||
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UdderChaos
United Kingdom707 Posts
On March 03 2010 04:10 internetwarrior wrote: So you learn nothing and start from scratch everytime? Silly me thinking you'd build on what you've learned from previous games especially of the same genre (RTS). I guess that's the Argentinian way? First of all: TL 10 cmds see the 6th rule, be carefull because im pretty sure your breaking it or close to with that argentinian comment. Secondly i think you'll find that it's irelavent anyways seeing as the sc2 team is pretty new, most of the original guys left, mainly to join arenanet. And even if they didn't, it's still been 11 years since they made starcraft, and 5 since they have made an rts. | ||
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marshmallow
United States93 Posts
But hey, at least the Zerg art is pretty slick. Check out the Terran units. You build a marine, then a slightly fatter marine, then a marine the size of a CC. Snore. | ||
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