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On March 02 2010 12:31 Gedrah wrote:Hey dude, I got 2 paragraphs into your post before seeing 3 flat assertions that are flatly wrong. I don't think you are in the right mind to be making posts like this right now, you seem like you just got mad after a bad loss and you've got this tunnel vision negativity going on where you can't see the forest for the trees. You don't sound like you understand Zerg at all, and I know you have 3643 posts and I don't care what your ICCUP rank is -_- >>> (mutas might as well be completely different units as they function completely differently now and are basically useless as harass units What? I can scarcely believe I'm reading this, if you can't get T who doesn't have 2+ turrets at his CC to pull workers off his minerals with 4 mutas then I am unsure what to say about that. Of course, if T has turrets and marines with stim in his main, then no, perhaps you won't get away with muta harass at that time. But then, in that case, why didn't you scout and why did you make mutas etc etc. Edit: I didn't mention Protoss here because Mutas are even more powerful against Protoss than against Terran unless they stick with 1 base and get many Sentries, at which point a mix of roach and lings will bust his shit... >>> Zerg to me has just boiled down to “make a bunch of shit and a-move eventually and hope he cant kill it all” How's that plan working out for you? You know there is so much more that Zerg can be doing, right? Is there a reason you aren't harassing or making drops with Nydus or Overlords, burrow 3 Roaches and pop up next to the Refinery when he moves out? Fuck, since this is SC2, why not shoot some Infested Terran eggs up the cliff into the mineral line and then attack his other holdings when he comes to kill them? That sentence denies the existence of any of the above, so...? Are you lacking in creativity and excessively angry and assertive about your beliefs maybe? If your response to the above is "BUT HE KEEPS COUNTERING ME SO I JUST SIT IN MY MAIN AND MAKE UNITS WITHOUT HARASSING, SCOUTING, OR ENGAGING HIM" then mine is "A storm is coming." You said one thing I think everyone can agree with though:
i admit i haven really played enough to be completely sure of all of this, but I've never seen mutas be good in a game lol. and I'm not completely sure if i read it right but you just said "mutas are great if he has under 2 turrets!" lolwut
but really, doom drops fall in the category of "make a lot of shit and hope he cant kill it all". I guess roaches are the new harass unit, but dont really work well if the guy has any detection at all in front of his base (although i guess overlord drop might be good for that now that you bring it up).
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This easy race imba crap is going to occur in SC2 now? Damn.
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rofl i thought protoss is imba would be a good title to get people to read the OP but i guess its just a good title to get people to post without reading.
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On March 02 2010 12:32 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 12:29 StorrZerg wrote:On March 02 2010 12:24 Fayth wrote:On March 02 2010 12:23 StorrZerg wrote:
I find it super funny that you said mutas are crap, when its near impossible to deal with them effectively as toss. what? sentries owns mutas lol yes cause sentries can cover both your bases at the same time vs 10+ mutas. its near impossible to move out against mutas. You are absolutely right about sentries dealing with mutas well, but they have terrible mobility compared to mutas, not to mention storm is weaker vs mutas now, and archon splash is super tiny and can't deal with mutas effectively now. just like archons had terrible mobility compared to mutas in BW.... also the fact u can warp sentries instantly everywhere you have pylons makes it fairly easy to not get harassed just add a bunch of cannons everywhere, leave a few sentries while you keep expoing I don't think it's that hard at all, you need less sentries than mutas to deal with em so you can be fine moving out and expanding. I don't think it's imbalanced at all
Man you really crack me up. In bw, the splash from archons worked well, and you never wanted to engage them with your mutas, you don't have this fear in sc2, you can crush them so fast with minimal splash.
Yes so i have to add 5-6 cannons at each mineral line (which might not be enough) I can warp sentries in anywhere yes, but whats stopping his mutas from sniping them while they morph in?
And if he does a quick hydra tech switch, thats going to roll your sentry cannon defense quite easy.
in bw you could at least mass sairs to be a pretty hard counter to mutas, there is no strong counter to mass mutas in beta. To get a 3rd expansion, you have to pray you can set up cannons with out him knowing, or abuse dts to crawl your self back into the game.
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Doom drop isn't what you wanna do. The purpose of harass is to whittle your opponent down, weaken his economy and concentration. 1 Overlord with 4 Roaches can really mess shit up, you drop them, burrow them (yes that's a lot of gas tech) and then pop up when your opponent needs to be paying attention to something else. Either he splits focus and loses units on both fronts, or he picks one and loses a lot at the one where he isn't paying attention.
Or he's Gosu and you weren't going to beat him anyway.
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Mutas are borderline overpowered in sc2. Vs toss a good zerg can easily take out your probe line without having to worry about storm/archons (they are pitiful in sc2 and in a dire need of buffs). Sentries are a decent counter to mutas but only in an open battlefield, not when zerg can be mobile and move from your nat to main harassing.
IF they made phoenix decent vs mutas or gave it that overload ability back I think that would help fix the issue with mutas.
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On March 02 2010 12:38 neVern wrote:
This easy race imba crap is going to occur in SC2 now? Damn.
durrr, but its still beta, no need to get your panties in a bunch
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lol nice write up. It's a shame no one seems to be able to read it :/
I think zerg is one interesting unit/spell/ability away from being finished. Protoss and terran look pretty good overall imo (though it seems the distinction between the races is being blurred) just needs a few number tweaks.
Maybe a swarmish ability for the queen, researchable at hive. Bringing back the lurker would be the easy solution (like you said I think).
quick question: can medivacs shuttle units? And if so is it innate or researchable?
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On March 02 2010 12:41 jonnyp wrote:
lol nice write up. It's a shame no one seems to be able to read it :/
I think zerg is one interesting unit/spell/ability away from being finished. Protoss and terran look pretty good overall imo (though it seems the distinction between the races is being blurred) just needs a few number tweaks.
Maybe a swarmish ability for the queen, researchable at hive. Bringing back the lurker would be the easy solution (like you said I think).
quick question: can medivacs shuttle units? And if so is it innate or researchable?
Really your last question is super bad....
if you bothered to look up anything about them you'd know that they are drop ships with heal
as for research-able stuff, they have an energy upgrade thats it
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In terms of interesting stuff I agree that protoss is on top. WTF at terran though. That race needs a complete overhaul to be interesting a bit.
I didn't like roaches before beta. I now think they are rather fun unit. Time will tell if they fit well in end product.
Does anyone else think hydras have lost their flavor in sc2 though? Something went wrong somewhere I think.
Muta are currently very powerful in beta and you can still micro them but I'm not sure how close you can get to the sniping style of bw. Current muta control in bw is only a modern thing and bw was amazing before that. Don't make me defend sc2 -_-;;
Keep in mind zergs transport ability is rape.
Dynamic of how units interact with own units and vs other races is really what the big thing will be. Was anyone confident in this happening though? I mean really sc1 was a huge fluke the way it turned out to be so good for competitive play. Blizz decided to throw in speed fastest for shits and giggles lol.
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On March 02 2010 12:39 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 12:32 Fayth wrote:On March 02 2010 12:29 StorrZerg wrote:On March 02 2010 12:24 Fayth wrote:On March 02 2010 12:23 StorrZerg wrote:
I find it super funny that you said mutas are crap, when its near impossible to deal with them effectively as toss. what? sentries owns mutas lol yes cause sentries can cover both your bases at the same time vs 10+ mutas. its near impossible to move out against mutas. You are absolutely right about sentries dealing with mutas well, but they have terrible mobility compared to mutas, not to mention storm is weaker vs mutas now, and archon splash is super tiny and can't deal with mutas effectively now. just like archons had terrible mobility compared to mutas in BW.... also the fact u can warp sentries instantly everywhere you have pylons makes it fairly easy to not get harassed just add a bunch of cannons everywhere, leave a few sentries while you keep expoing I don't think it's that hard at all, you need less sentries than mutas to deal with em so you can be fine moving out and expanding. I don't think it's imbalanced at all Man you really crack me up. In bw, the splash from archons worked well, and you never wanted to engage them with your mutas, you don't have this fear in sc2, you can crush them so fast with minimal splash. Yes so i have to add 5-6 cannons at each mineral line (which might not be enough) I can warp sentries in anywhere yes, but whats stopping his mutas from sniping them while they morph in? And if he does a quick hydra tech switch, thats going to roll your sentry cannon defense quite easy. in bw you could at least mass sairs to be a pretty hard counter to mutas, there is no strong counter to mass mutas in beta. To get a 3rd expansion, you have to pray you can set up cannons with out him knowing, or abuse dts to crawl your self back into the game.
so storms don't hit mutas at all now?
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I have actually flown into storms because I can't tell what area they are hitting. I was no where near the animation and my mutas were draining life super fast...so it works both ways.
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On March 02 2010 12:43 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 12:41 jonnyp wrote:
lol nice write up. It's a shame no one seems to be able to read it :/
I think zerg is one interesting unit/spell/ability away from being finished. Protoss and terran look pretty good overall imo (though it seems the distinction between the races is being blurred) just needs a few number tweaks.
Maybe a swarmish ability for the queen, researchable at hive. Bringing back the lurker would be the easy solution (like you said I think).
quick question: can medivacs shuttle units? And if so is it innate or researchable? Really your last question is super bad.... if you bothered to look up anything about them you'd know that they are drop ships with heal as for research-able stuff, they have an energy upgrade thats it
that's not very nice 
I had no idea where to look. The latest thread on TL with 'medivac' in the title is almost 2 years old, nothing on google for 'medivac' either, nor could I find anything on the sc2 official site. So yeah, I did look it up. Just a harmless, slightly off-topic question that was easily answerable. It wasn't even a question so much as looking for confirmation.
OT: I'm still excited to play sc2 though, I think it's definitely good for at LEAST a year's entertainment (crossing my fingers for 10+  ). I'm confident blizzard will make this game fun.
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From what I know storms are pretty bad vs muta right now.
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On March 02 2010 12:54 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 12:39 StorrZerg wrote:On March 02 2010 12:32 Fayth wrote:On March 02 2010 12:29 StorrZerg wrote:On March 02 2010 12:24 Fayth wrote:On March 02 2010 12:23 StorrZerg wrote:
I find it super funny that you said mutas are crap, when its near impossible to deal with them effectively as toss. what? sentries owns mutas lol yes cause sentries can cover both your bases at the same time vs 10+ mutas. its near impossible to move out against mutas. You are absolutely right about sentries dealing with mutas well, but they have terrible mobility compared to mutas, not to mention storm is weaker vs mutas now, and archon splash is super tiny and can't deal with mutas effectively now. just like archons had terrible mobility compared to mutas in BW.... also the fact u can warp sentries instantly everywhere you have pylons makes it fairly easy to not get harassed just add a bunch of cannons everywhere, leave a few sentries while you keep expoing I don't think it's that hard at all, you need less sentries than mutas to deal with em so you can be fine moving out and expanding. I don't think it's imbalanced at all Man you really crack me up. In bw, the splash from archons worked well, and you never wanted to engage them with your mutas, you don't have this fear in sc2, you can crush them so fast with minimal splash. Yes so i have to add 5-6 cannons at each mineral line (which might not be enough) I can warp sentries in anywhere yes, but whats stopping his mutas from sniping them while they morph in? And if he does a quick hydra tech switch, thats going to roll your sentry cannon defense quite easy. in bw you could at least mass sairs to be a pretty hard counter to mutas, there is no strong counter to mass mutas in beta. To get a 3rd expansion, you have to pray you can set up cannons with out him knowing, or abuse dts to crawl your self back into the game. so storms don't hit mutas at all now?
They are less effective now... MUCH less effective less damage.
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On March 02 2010 12:59 CagedMind wrote:
From what I know storms are pretty bad vs muta right now.
So k, Fayth is just a troll with connections.
edit: lolz guess not that good since he just got rebanned
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On March 02 2010 12:39 Ideas wrote:
rofl i thought protoss is imba would be a good title to get people to read the OP but i guess its just a good title to get people to post without reading.
Well, really, you are on the internet--what did you expect? 
Edit for content: Yeah I think Zerg is gonna get some more content. Remember that they took out Lurkers to see where Zerg was weakest, presumably to re-insert them once they figure out that weak point. Patience will pay off
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On March 02 2010 12:39 Ideas wrote:
rofl i thought protoss is imba would be a good title to get people to read the OP but i guess its just a good title to get people to post without reading.
This post totally redeemed this thread lol
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On March 02 2010 13:04 StorrZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 12:59 CagedMind wrote:
From what I know storms are pretty bad vs muta right now. So k, Fayth is just a troll with connections. edit: lolz guess not that good since he just got rebanned
troll with connections? wtf I play SC2, We even played lol
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I don't think things are tangible enough yet, but I agree infester is so terrible atm.
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EPT
