We need to come up with some unit ideas at least for an expansion.
More Unit Ideas
The Mantis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hGuallLPcM
This unit could have cliff jumping abilities like the Terran Reapers. The attack could be a sudden melee strike like a Praying Mantis. The Mantis gets in range and then suddenly lurches forward quickly and grabs its prey, devouring it till its dead or someone else kills the Mantis. This attack grapples small units like marines, probes, SCVs, drones, etc. Just damages larger units. Probably Tier 2 unit. Pretty terrifying and zerg like.
The removal of lurkers logically makes sense, because the Baneling fills the slot that lurkers used to. They are a unit that can efficiently contain an infantry force such as Terran Bio or Zeal heavy toss. However, I can't help but think that Zerg need another unit to round out their army. Terrans and Toss have a lot of unit variety in SC2 whereas zerg always seem to have the same hydra/roach or muta/roach army comp.
Lurkers did more then just aoe it forces terran and toss to get detection thus leading to contains when zerg can only do with a mass of units instead of a few well placed lurkers. For Toss they would have to burn 2 storms on each lurker or get observers costing them gas and tech buildings which gave zerg time to expand more etc.
As it is it feels like a slug fest just throwing units at enemies rather then doing cute tactics other then trying to sneak nydus's in and thats gonna be irrelevent as soon as tosses+terrans line there borders with pylons & depots for vision. Or just leave the odd marine / stakers patroling edges.
Look, the Lurker was interesting because the only time it was useful was when it was completely immobile. Making able to MOVE as well completely defeats the need for complex maneuvers with Zerglings and/or Mutalisks because you could just MOVE the damn things while burrowed. For crying out loud, think before you post something.
On March 01 2010 14:58 LunarC wrote: Look, the Lurker was interesting because the only time it was useful was when it was completely immobile. Making able to MOVE as well completely defeats the need for complex maneuvers with Zerglings and/or Mutalisks because you could just MOVE the damn things while burrowed. For crying out loud, think before you post something.
lurkers are interesting because they attack while burrowed. for crying out loud, think before you flame people.
Also want to just point out that I disagree with having to get a lair before having any decent anti-air. This just makes aggressive tier one play that much less viable. Almost All-in depending on the map.
On March 01 2010 14:58 LunarC wrote: Look, the Lurker was interesting because the only time it was useful was when it was completely immobile. Making able to MOVE as well completely defeats the need for complex maneuvers with Zerglings and/or Mutalisks because you could just MOVE the damn things while burrowed. For crying out loud, think before you post something.
lurkers are interesting because they attack while burrowed. for crying out loud, think before you flame people.
No. Lurkers are interesting because burrowing forces them to be immobile. For Crying Out Loud, Think Before You Retaliate.
Think about it this way. You are suggesting Blizzard implement moving "stop" Lurkers. Moving. Stop Lurkers.
For whatever it's worth, I'm actually playing the beta and I love zerg. The nydus worms are amazing and feel incredibly "zerg", and the ability to control HUGE groups of zerglings is incredibly satisfying, and just overall I'm very pleased.
On March 01 2010 14:58 LunarC wrote: Look, the Lurker was interesting because the only time it was useful was when it was completely immobile. Making able to MOVE as well completely defeats the need for complex maneuvers with Zerglings and/or Mutalisks because you could just MOVE the damn things while burrowed. For crying out loud, think before you post something.
lurkers are interesting because they attack while burrowed. for crying out loud, think before you flame people.
Lurkers are interesting in a "just looking, thats cool" perspective because they attack when burrowed. Lurkers are interesting from a GAMEPLAY perspective because of their immobility and AOE.
I also think the current Ultralisk is interesting. In the "just looking, thats cool" perspective because they rape things when A-moved. Gameplay-wise they destroy a need for support spells like the ones defilers had, thus making the game a bit simpler than it used to be.
I think it's true that the Zerg seem the most "untouched" in SC1. It almost feels like a re-make of the Zerg rather than a sequel to them.
However, I think part of the problem is the nature of the Zerg. The Zerg were always about a large mass of staple units, the uniqueness came from the production abilities. Whereas Terran and Protoss were always more focused on unit abilities. You "go" Mutas, Lurkers, Zerglings, Ultras, Hydras, or whatever. And while you can "go" Zealots or M&M, you don't "go" Tanks, Reavers, Wraiths, etc etc.
With the ability to mass produce units, specialist units are generally inefficient in comparison. And why something as insane as the Defiler/Scourge was needed to be a worthwhile specialist. Spending the money to build the enabling building and then upgrade it is very high when you realize that you could have spent money on your base units and improved your army across the board.
This is different than Protoss/Terrans because they have more limited production capabilites. They can't pump units the same way the Zerg can so if they force their resources in that direction they'll simply hit a bottleneck.
This means they have more room in their strategy for divergent tactics. On top of their base army, there is always some free resources that need to be spent but have no easy direction. Whereas with the Zerg, in all likelihood you are building more of the same units, building more buildings, or upgrading your same units.
So while I agree with the OP, I am not sure you can expect the same from the Zerg as you do the other races. I would much prefer a greater expansion on the Nydus and Overseer. They are in a closer position to be the kind of impact force-multiplier that a Defiler would have. I would rather they expand on those two units than try to force players to use units that have marginal use.
As a Protoss player, I enjoyed PvZ much more in SC1 than SC2. Both the metagame and gameplay fighting against lurker and scourge (or potential of them) was more engaging than roach and t2 hydra w/o lurker. Right now, the roach metagame doesn't feel as good.
The game does play differently, which is fine and great in some cases (like being able to have more viable build orders without FE as Protoss in PvZ), but I'm not sure I'd want a different experience if it isn't on the same quality level as lurker / scourge.
Imo Zerg needs the original defiler back along with the original Lurker, change the roach around givign it less damage to anything except for light units. Weaken Hydras a tiny bit but make them cost 1 food. Buff zerglings a little bit and increase their movespeed/attack speed but lower damage if its too much.
i have yet to see ultralisks used much nor have I used them myself but I haven't been playing much zerg. however, they seem to of been turned into a superunit which is not what the zerg is about. zerg is 'the swarm' for a reason. imo, weaken the ultra and make it more producible.
edit:
i want to see zerglings have the ability to climb on a building and 'swarm' it, even if its only aesthetic. it'd be cool ;D
Infestors look too fat and clumsy to be a Zerg unit. All of the Zerg units are sleek and vicious looking in SC1, but the Infestor looks like a bloated caterpillar.
Jesus Howard, haw did you manage to get such a short-sided opinion. Seriously I'm sorry but you're looking at things waaaay to ...darkly and you fail to see how interesting some of the new units are and how many interesting strategies they can produce. Race unit composition is still not absolutely certainly final but please try stuff don't just dismiss.
The OP is so right, there is no new incentive to use zerg. Toss gets Colussus, Immortals, and sentries. Terran gets Thors and Vikings, and we get...roaches. Great. HDstarcraft doesnt even use zerg anymore.
EPT
