On February 19 2010 11:59 QuasiMachina wrote: SC1 runs in 640x480, which is very close to the resolution which games are typically streamed with. Seeing as SC2 is a much higher resolution game, there is no way blizard would be able to give low res streams the same visual clarity as in SC1, without greatly reducing the game's detail. I agree that team colours could be slightly more pronounced, but other than that, i think blizz have done a great job.
Oh, and the camera is further away
^ This.
I too have noticed it's a little harder to see things, but besides Blizzard making some colour changes, I don't think there's too much that can be done. Here's hoping a blizzard rep is lurking the forums, and considers that in 'the near future' people will want to watch the pros play, and if things are slightly clearer, it will be frustrating.
On February 19 2010 12:03 KhaosKreator wrote: When you first played SC, did you have any idea of what was going on on zerg creep? I know I didn't. It's a visual cluster-fuck.
You just need time to get used to it.
actually i did o_o unless the colour of the zerg was purple
I've found that on KHB's stream I can actually tell what is going on, and that's because he's turned down everything. It looks bland and nothing really sparkles, but it's clear as day and I actually enjoyed watching it that way because I could actually tell what the heck was going on. Compared to the other streams, which I found myself concentrating a lot harder and was still sometimes confused as to who was winning the battle. Kind of sucks though, because the graphics are really nice and pretty when turned up.
On February 19 2010 11:17 TheAntZ wrote: Anyone who isnt a blind fanboy sees it at this point tbh, even with the CLEAREST streams, its difficult to see zerg units properly
I'm pretty sure blind fanboys will have a hard time seeing much of anything, really...
From what I've watched on streams, it's clear enough for me. At least I'm not having much trouble distinguishing units in combat. I guess that makes me a fanboy.
I will agree that stuff is a bit too unclear for me to micro comfortably on this quality, but that's just the thing: I'm not going to be playing SC2 on 640x480 with lossy encoding. I'll be playing it 1680*1050 fullscreen with AA on if possible. That changes things A LOT.
Also, keep in mind that youtube has changed as well. It supports HD now, which should make for much clearer VOD's as long as the uploader remembers to record in HD.
Overall, only thing I think really warrants a change is the team colours.
On February 19 2010 12:11 Hyde wrote: I've found that on KHB's stream I can actually tell what is going on, and that's because he's turned down everything. It looks bland and nothing really sparkles, but it's clear as day and I actually enjoyed watching it that way because I could actually tell what the heck was going on. Compared to the other streams, which I found myself concentrating a lot harder and was still sometimes confused as to who was winning the battle. Kind of sucks though, because the graphics are really nice and pretty when turned up.
I was going to mention this too, Day[9] has also turned the settings down and everything's more clear.
They have gotten a little happy with the effects and explosions. When something explodes you cant see what is really happening. I mean its gorgeous but almost too much so, if that makes sense? Its very clear outside of confrontations tho I think. im currently running it on a 24in monitor and a 1500$ gaming rig (i know its not GREAT but its better than the average) running 2 radeon hd 4670's for video cards, nice 300 monitor. But its gorgeous to look at, my first time playing on my home system (ive played at the past 3 blizzcons) i find myself zooming in with my scroll wheel just to admire the details of things. In combat the effects seem to "blind" you but even then its beautiful, tho not really practical.
on second thought I do kinda have to agree with Zerg being a bit harder to distinguish and see clearly. They tend to fade into ground especially on creep or in large groups. But this is supposed to happen maybe? i mean dont the zerg generally rely on numbers and when you cant tell one from another it makes it harder to see How Many there actually are? Kinda like zebras and their stripes? Lol idk but i do agree zerg are hardER to see than the protoss and terran, but those two races are VERY robotic looking and on a nature backdrop they stand out a LOT more than an earth-tone "insect"
**edit** Toss look techy not robotic. They have the grace of ninjas for the most part.
After having played a few dozen games and wistfully watching streams while at work, I think people are making more of this then there is. I watched a ZvZ just now on Psyonic Reaver's stream and was able to pretty much call what was going on. Once you know the units and how they look and move, it's much easier to differentiate them in a fair quality stream. With that said, I'm sure Blizzard is aware of the overall issue and are likely listening and taking steps to make everything for clear. One example of where they've taken the initiative is with zealots - when they die their "spirit/smoke" is the colour of the player, rather then always blue.
I'm not saying there are no issues outstanding on this topic, just that I think the system actually works better than many people are giving it credit for as is. Zergling battles were always a clusterfart anyway. :p
its hard to distinguish because you guys are watching from a stream that is probably not hd quality or at a higher resolution. i'm sure most beta players would agree on finding no problems distinguishing between units and colors within the game.
This definitely needs to get fixed. It will look better as it is now, but they are focusing so much on the e-sports aspect. so clarity is far more important than graphics. That is something I could only make small suggestions of brightness, more defined colors on units, or some other form of highlighting.
It looks like their graphics department will get no rest on this one. That's a hell of a lot of work.
Note: It needs to be clear from a distance, as watching from a TV is different than from a foot away from your computer screen. It ends up being harder to see units if they are not very clear from a distance.
ive been playing the beta and everything looks really clear to me. However, when you mass an army, since they all kind of stick together as close as possible it gets hard to distinguish units. I was trying to find my high templar among so many zealots hugging it. It was really hard to see clearly. That would be my biggest gripe so far i think, is the way the units just clump together like magnets.
In big mixed armies I found it imperative to hotkey high templar separately since they were too difficult to identify in the midst of battle. Most other units have distinct enough profiles that I don't have trouble with them, but high templars' dark wispy profiles are easily obscured by the clumped up shadows of a tightly packed army. That was with high graphics though. I'm going to try low graphics and see if I have an easier time. Honestly without the unit shadows armies should be much easier to scope at a glance.
I agree that SC2 is not clear enough. I even watched HDStarcraft replays in 1080p but still - hard to distinguish, zerg especially. Some people say that adding more contrast would give the game more unreal looking, but i don't think so. For me SC1 was much more "realistic" looking and SC2 is more cartoonish, also too much complicated graphically, don't you think so? Look at the protoss buildings being warped in or in a siege tank details, even the supply depots - soooo complicated... I think it's aimed to fit the Korean scene. Asians probably like such things (like their cartoons with robots and all this stuff). But I would prefer it simplified and more clear in SC2 1.0 Still - the game i s awesome!
On February 19 2010 17:35 pzea469 wrote: ive been playing the beta and everything looks really clear to me. However, when you mass an army, since they all kind of stick together as close as possible it gets hard to distinguish units. I was trying to find my high templar among so many zealots hugging it. It was really hard to see clearly. That would be my biggest gripe so far i think, is the way the units just clump together like magnets.
If you select a buttload of units you can select specific unit types from the small tabs in the unit selection window.
Im in Beta and to be honest I haven't really had any problem with the colors. Sometimes the untits move in packs that seem a bit to tight and are hard to distinguish, but all in all its very OK.
Wow, TheAntZ sure enjoys being unpleasant to people on the internet, I wonder what his problem is.
I don't have any problems following what's happening, I think the problem many people have is that they don't know the units. BW wasn't exactly clear the first few games I saw of it, either, in fact I thought it was laughably unclear coming from a background of WC2. ZvZ can be extremely chaotic but can you honestly claim it isn't so in BW?
Also, SC2 streamable VODs (whether there'll be any need to have those is EXTREMELY suspect) will obviously be in much higher quality as people are having better internet connections and can handle watching them, just like live streams and VODs in say, HoN are right now.
Zerg units on creep are stupid but aside from that i had no problems at all?
Main problem are the Streams which normally use some "stone age resolution" trying to show a game with over double the resolution.. No wonder it looks like crap then .
Blame streamingtechnology or your bad connections that make these resolutions nessesary, don't blame the game for not looking good on streams.
EPT
Still - the game i s awesome! 
