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On January 04 2011 13:27 TaKemE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 13:05 TigerKarl wrote:On January 04 2011 12:39 TaKemE wrote:Day9 if you realy want to make money of sc2 then why dont you start useing your youtube channel for more then just dailies and cast some game or something. According to http://myu2b.com/ you already make 80$ a day of youtube but it could be alot more. You always said your not into asking ppl for money but still you ask and now want to live of it... if you want to make money of sc2 you can also split up videos on youtube even thought some say they dont like that it dosent realy hurt any. Sure he could do that, but i think most people agree that Day9 should stay true at heart (unlike H to the Usky etc.) and stay the best internetz dude in the world. And asking ppl to give money is not worse then working for the money like husky/HD? You might not like what they do but they earn more then enough to live on it and many ppl love what they do. [b]Day9 dont realy do all that much work compared to ppl with a "real" job[b/]... yes he uses a few hours on each of his dailies, going to some event and had school but if he realy wanted to work for the money he could easy be doing that with what he loves "sc".
wait wut?
dude he flies ALL OVER THE WORLD to cast tournaments, that is combined with school and the dailys.
there are very few ppl who give starcraft as much attention as sean so saying he doesn't do all that much work is just totaly insane.
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It's hard to believe that people are actually getting bent out of shape over him basically saying he is going to give everything he has into making something real out of everything that all of us in the StarCraft community have always dreamed about.
Those of you complaining about him asking for donations, think about it this way; he is pouring all of his rightfully earned money (from youtube, blip, etc.) into serving us by making something out of esports. In return he is asking for DONATIONS so that he can eat and live under a roof. I don't think that is really much to ask... I mean he could've decided to charge money to be able to watch dailies or tournaments or something, instead he is saying "those who can and want to pitch in a little something, it is much appreciated" and that is all.
I think Sean realizes that in the end, if eSports is going to become big in the west it is going to be a community effort. No matter how hard he tries and how much content he provides, if there is nobody to support eSports it isn't going to get anywhere. By asking for some donations, he is asking the community to pitch in and help him make something out of eSports with him leading the way.
Anyways, best of luck to you Sean. I really hope the support is there to make your efforts worthwhile. Thanks for everything you do for us once again! I'll be sure to donate once I set up a paypal sometime in the near future (oh yeah, and once I get some money :p).
P.S. I haven't watched the daily quite yet, so sorry if anything I said is kind of redundant or just wrong... It's just the impression I am getting from what people are saying in the thread. I'm going to watch it once it is on blip.
Edit: I have watched the announcement now and it looks like Sean pretty much said everything that I said :p. I think the one thing people need to keep in mind is that he is giving all of his own, hard earned money into making eSports happen, which is probably more money then he is going to receive from donations. I don't see how this can be taken negatively whatsoever, I think it is an awesome thing he is doing for us and personally, I am behind him 100%.
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wow i think i missed something, can't wait for the daily and ily sean!
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I will be able to do graphics, logos and other "stuff" like that if it´s needed. I do it all day in school and at home anyways so might as well be a part of a project! (My teacher loves that too!)
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I missed the daily, is there going to be a Funday for next week?
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Watching your Dailys has helped me so much Day9. Ever since I started I watched and tried to become a better gamer. With your analysis of games and newbie tuesdays I understand what I can do to get out of certain situations and keeping calm while doing so. Funday mondays are always sweet too! I also liked the whole Wednesday night fights idea. I hope it comes again in the future!
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I don't think the donations thing is a big deal. One of the biggest podcasters on the planet, Leo Laporte and the twit network, makes his living through donations. Sponsorship money that he gets goes to co-casters and to running the show. So if he can do it, I don't see why Day[9] can't do it too.
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yeah, i kinda agree with slasher. though i don't think donations are a bad thing so long as he has a plan to work away from relying on them towards something more self-sufficient (which his opinions on youtube, which is probably one of his best resources, suggest otherwise).
esports is kinda a weird place as you run into issues licensing the games from developers (yes it's a win-win largely, but legally the developers will want to protect themselves in the freak situations where things go horribly wrong), which is an issue that severely limits day9's options as he can't really merchandise or even really advertise (two issues husky (please reserve your opinions on his casting) smartly circumvents with his partnership with youtube to skirt the advertising issue as well as his parody songs (again reserve your opinions) which i think he intends to start attempting to both expand his song catalogue and sell them over itunes or something similar).
without direct support from blizzard (like the gsl) or more creative methods to self-promote (like the examples i used of husky's business model i stated above), day9's potential for expansion is extremely limited.
would i like esports to become more prominent? sure. but i don't see day9's plan to accomplish this. anything he does will likely need to be both extremely expensive and not strictly web-based.
maybe renting out two screens of a movie theater and putting a player, a commentator, and supporting spectators at each screen? like i said, crazy expensive, and i don't think he can even sell tickets to attempt to offset the costs. plus it would take years of this happening on a regular basis to catch on (research how long it took something like rocky horror to become the phenomenon it is now, and i don't think esport-supporters are as active as the glbt community is (especially when they were as oppressed as when rhps came out), though i'd compare it probably more accurately to "the room" which took about a decade to go national targetting film geeks (which though a smaller group than gamers, i'd say they're largely more socially active), and i still bet most of you have never heard of it), but i think the big boost would be to make esports go-to-events (at least somewhere other than korea), and i just don't think day9 can do anything about that (not that i see husky's band getting big enough to open starcraft events the way pop acts did in korea to initially attract fans either).
sorry, if this comes off as tl;dr
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On January 04 2011 13:11 fearus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 13:09 Animostas wrote:
Can someone give me recommendations for Dailies for a person who has started playing Starcraft like, yesterday? I don't think his dailies will help you much, try playing through the tutorials, play through the campaign, then some custom games vs the computer just so at the very least you have the units names down. Then it isn't a bad idea to watch through from #1, his early dailies were all quiet good for beginners.
campaign doesnt help with multiplayer skills at all. not in the slightest. i definately recommend number 132 back to the basics the mental checklist, thats the one i always recommend people and that helped me out even before i got the game.
there are plenty of others like the newbie tuesdays and 126 is a must watch as well. those are what got me going when i picked up the game.
also check out 121, plugging leaks in silver level play.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 14:00 Feb wrote:
yeah, i kinda agree with slasher. though i don't think donations are a bad thing so long as he has a plan to work away from relying on them towards something more self-sufficient (which his opinions on youtube, which is probably one of his best resources, suggest otherwise).
esports is kinda a weird place as you run into issues licensing the games from developers (yes it's a win-win largely, but legally the developers will want to protect themselves in the freak situations where things go horribly wrong), which is an issue that severely limits day9's options as he can't really merchandise or even really advertise (two issues husky (please reserve your opinions on his casting) smartly circumvents with his partnership with youtube to skirt the advertising issue as well as his parody songs (again reserve your opinions) which i think he intends to start attempting to both expand his song catalogue and sell them over itunes or something similar).
without direct support from blizzard (like the gsl) or more creative methods to self-promote (like the examples i used of husky's business model i stated above), day9's potential for expansion is extremely limited.
would i like esports to become more prominent? sure. but i don't see day9's plan to accomplish this. anything he does will likely need to be both extremely expensive and not strictly web-based.
maybe renting out two screens of a movie theater and putting a player, a commentator, and supporting spectators at each screen? like i said, crazy expensive, and i don't think he can even sell tickets to attempt to offset the costs. plus it would take years of this happening on a regular basis to catch on (research how long it took something like rocky horror to become the phenomenon it is now, and i don't think esport-supporters are as active as the glbt community is (especially when they were as oppressed as when rhps came out), though i'd compare it probably more accurately to "the room" which took about a decade to go national targetting film geeks (which though a smaller group than gamers, i'd say they're largely more socially active), and i still bet most of you have never heard of it), but i think the big boost would be to make esports go-to-events (at least somewhere other than korea), and i just don't think day9 can do anything about that (not that i see husky's band getting big enough to open starcraft events the way pop acts did in korea to initially attract fans either).
sorry, if this comes off as tl;dr
I think Day[9] has a plan. He's a smart cookie. Don't think he's going into this blindly. Realize that HE DID cast at BlizCon and has a relationship with Blizzard. He's a top personna in NA SC2 scene. Don't think he's not getting offers left and right for something big. He's starting something. Maybe something that will be bigger then MLG, maybe as big as GSL. We're on the ground floor and I think he is the cornerstone of the foundation. I have no problem supporting him as he is doing this for the game and not for himself. You can count on that.
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On January 04 2011 14:01 Keldrath wrote:campaign doesnt help with multiplayer skills at all. not in the slightest.
I don't agree, the first thing you need to learn in the game is what all the units do, campaign helps with that at a slow pace (always good).
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On January 04 2011 13:20 Slasher wrote:
I love Sean for all that he's done, will do, and his overall passion for eSports. But saying that...come on now. It's our job as publishers, content creators, writers, editors, streamers, producers, tournament organizers, managers, etc, to create revenue streams, not to ask for donations. Blip.tv, Justin.tv, uStream, YouTube - these services are specifically designed to make money for content creators, and it's the job of those content creators to make it work.
Husky, HD & TotalBiscuit are good examples of what I'm talking about, all working full-time as content creators (to my knowledge). Furthermore, that is also the specific job of sponsors. They are designed to fund content creators and networks so that they are economically viable for all sides. It is entirely possible to work out a scenario with a sponsor that does not impede on the content or delivery. There may be small nuances that you'd have to adjust to, but nothing out of the ordinary for the situation. We've lauded sponsors for years for entering the eSports space - why would it be any different for a talk show?
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like donations are reserved for someone falling on rough times/had a horribly damaging event happen to them, or to charities such as Child's Play and Get Well Gamers.
There have been many people who have poured their soul into eSports/Professional Gaming for a long, long time now. This should be no different.
I disagree. I think that he is on some level charging for his content - but only charging for those that can afford it.
He is creating revenue - but in a way that he doesn't get pinned down to a specific website.
Think about it like this: In Pro sports, revenue is made through some sponsors, yes, but by enlarge it comes from the fans buying tickets. Day(9) doesn't want to restrict his daily only to those who can afford this "ticket" so he's asking those who can afford to, to buy the ticket.
And as to your last line - I cannot think of a time in eSports where one person has carried a scene to the degree Sean has. All the MLGs were casted by him, and Dreamhack and Blizzcon, the biggest tourneys outside of Korea. Most potential viewers wouldn't care for these to the degree they do without Day. Face it: Competitively, the Korean scene and the GSL is MUCH more competitive, esp. with the best of the foreigners going there. Their is no real reason why someone would watch the MLG over the GSL - except for Day(9). So if he wants to ask for donations, in order for him to be able to contribute anymore, I have to honestly wonder why someone would hold that against him.
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On January 04 2011 14:10 SleepTech wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2011 14:00 Feb wrote:
yeah, i kinda agree with slasher. though i don't think donations are a bad thing so long as he has a plan to work away from relying on them towards something more self-sufficient (which his opinions on youtube, which is probably one of his best resources, suggest otherwise).
esports is kinda a weird place as you run into issues licensing the games from developers (yes it's a win-win largely, but legally the developers will want to protect themselves in the freak situations where things go horribly wrong), which is an issue that severely limits day9's options as he can't really merchandise or even really advertise (two issues husky (please reserve your opinions on his casting) smartly circumvents with his partnership with youtube to skirt the advertising issue as well as his parody songs (again reserve your opinions) which i think he intends to start attempting to both expand his song catalogue and sell them over itunes or something similar).
without direct support from blizzard (like the gsl) or more creative methods to self-promote (like the examples i used of husky's business model i stated above), day9's potential for expansion is extremely limited.
would i like esports to become more prominent? sure. but i don't see day9's plan to accomplish this. anything he does will likely need to be both extremely expensive and not strictly web-based.
maybe renting out two screens of a movie theater and putting a player, a commentator, and supporting spectators at each screen? like i said, crazy expensive, and i don't think he can even sell tickets to attempt to offset the costs. plus it would take years of this happening on a regular basis to catch on (research how long it took something like rocky horror to become the phenomenon it is now, and i don't think esport-supporters are as active as the glbt community is (especially when they were as oppressed as when rhps came out), though i'd compare it probably more accurately to "the room" which took about a decade to go national targetting film geeks (which though a smaller group than gamers, i'd say they're largely more socially active), and i still bet most of you have never heard of it), but i think the big boost would be to make esports go-to-events (at least somewhere other than korea), and i just don't think day9 can do anything about that (not that i see husky's band getting big enough to open starcraft events the way pop acts did in korea to initially attract fans either).
sorry, if this comes off as tl;dr I think Day[9] has a plan. He's a smart cookie. Don't think he's going into this blindly. Realize that HE DID cast at BlizCon and has a relationship with Blizzard. He's a top personna in NA SC2 scene. Don't think he's not getting offers left and right for something big. He's starting something. Maybe something that will be bigger then MLG, maybe as big as GSL. We're on the ground floor and I think he is the cornerstone of the foundation. I have no problem supporting him as he is doing this for the game and not for himself. You can count on that.
that's fair. i just want a bigger idea of what he's doing. i don't want to just blindly give him money while he works his blizzard connections to get a job for them. i want to see something bigger, and at least the ideas of what that might be.
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Canada1637 Posts
IMO this topic should be about the daily and not completely derailed to pointless arguing about donations. :[
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On January 04 2011 14:11 DarKcS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 14:01 Keldrath wrote:campaign doesnt help with multiplayer skills at all. not in the slightest. I don't agree, the first thing you need to learn in the game is what all the units do, campaign helps with that at a slow pace (always good).
campaign doesnt even have half the same units and works in a completely different way from multiplayer. you wont learn anything from it. they made single player/multiplayer completely differnt experiences in this game and they did a really good job of it too.
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we're just reacting to the daily.
personally i just wanna know when/if another funday will be. 
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On January 04 2011 13:20 Slasher wrote:
I love Sean for all that he's done, will do, and his overall passion for eSports. But saying that...come on now. It's our job as publishers, content creators, writers, editors, streamers, producers, tournament organizers, managers, etc, to create revenue streams, not to ask for donations. Blip.tv, Justin.tv, uStream, YouTube - these services are specifically designed to make money for content creators, and it's the job of those content creators to make it work.
Husky, HD & TotalBiscuit are good examples of what I'm talking about, all working full-time as content creators (to my knowledge). Furthermore, that is also the specific job of sponsors. They are designed to fund content creators and networks so that they are economically viable for all sides. It is entirely possible to work out a scenario with a sponsor that does not impede on the content or delivery. There may be small nuances that you'd have to adjust to, but nothing out of the ordinary for the situation. We've lauded sponsors for years for entering the eSports space - why would it be any different for a talk show?
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like donations are reserved for someone falling on rough times/had a horribly damaging event happen to them, or to charities such as Child's Play and Get Well Gamers.
There have been many people who have poured their soul into eSports/Professional Gaming for a long, long time now. This should be no different.
On January 04 2011 14:00 Feb wrote:
yeah, i kinda agree with slasher. though i don't think donations are a bad thing so long as he has a plan to work away from relying on them towards something more self-sufficient (which his opinions on youtube, which is probably one of his best resources, suggest otherwise).
May I point out a few reputable orginizations:
This Americain Life
NPR
Wikipedia
These Organizations all work though user donations, and work well. NPR is a huge news organization that has thousands of employees. Sponsorships are not the only way to become economically viable.
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On January 04 2011 13:20 Slasher wrote:
I love Sean for all that he's done, will do, and his overall passion for eSports. But saying that...come on now. It's our job as publishers, content creators, writers, editors, streamers, producers, tournament organizers, managers, etc, to create revenue streams, not to ask for donations. Blip.tv, Justin.tv, uStream, YouTube - these services are specifically designed to make money for content creators, and it's the job of those content creators to make it work.
Husky, HD & TotalBiscuit are good examples of what I'm talking about, all working full-time as content creators (to my knowledge). Furthermore, that is also the specific job of sponsors. They are designed to fund content creators and networks so that they are economically viable for all sides. It is entirely possible to work out a scenario with a sponsor that does not impede on the content or delivery. There may be small nuances that you'd have to adjust to, but nothing out of the ordinary for the situation. We've lauded sponsors for years for entering the eSports space - why would it be any different for a talk show?
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like donations are reserved for someone falling on rough times/had a horribly damaging event happen to them, or to charities such as Child's Play and Get Well Gamers.
There have been many people who have poured their soul into eSports/Professional Gaming for a long, long time now. This should be no different.
That's a bit hypocritical isn't it Slashered? I mean, you work for a company in MLG that outright charges people for content, live, or in HD. Those people have no idea what they're going to see, they just pay the fee hoping it will be good. So they could donate to Child's Play or Get Well Gamers also, but instead they spend their money how they choose and watch your MLG event.
Or they could do both, like I've done many times in the past.
Sean, however, has shown us that he can deliver time and time again, and I know what my willful donation would go to. He doesn't make a lot of money for what he does, and I don't mind potentially helping drive his dream, because it's my dream too.
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On January 04 2011 14:22 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 13:20 Slasher wrote:
I love Sean for all that he's done, will do, and his overall passion for eSports. But saying that...come on now. It's our job as publishers, content creators, writers, editors, streamers, producers, tournament organizers, managers, etc, to create revenue streams, not to ask for donations. Blip.tv, Justin.tv, uStream, YouTube - these services are specifically designed to make money for content creators, and it's the job of those content creators to make it work.
Husky, HD & TotalBiscuit are good examples of what I'm talking about, all working full-time as content creators (to my knowledge). Furthermore, that is also the specific job of sponsors. They are designed to fund content creators and networks so that they are economically viable for all sides. It is entirely possible to work out a scenario with a sponsor that does not impede on the content or delivery. There may be small nuances that you'd have to adjust to, but nothing out of the ordinary for the situation. We've lauded sponsors for years for entering the eSports space - why would it be any different for a talk show?
Maybe it's just me, but I feel like donations are reserved for someone falling on rough times/had a horribly damaging event happen to them, or to charities such as Child's Play and Get Well Gamers.
There have been many people who have poured their soul into eSports/Professional Gaming for a long, long time now. This should be no different. Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 14:00 Feb wrote:
yeah, i kinda agree with slasher. though i don't think donations are a bad thing so long as he has a plan to work away from relying on them towards something more self-sufficient (which his opinions on youtube, which is probably one of his best resources, suggest otherwise).
May I point out a few reputable orginizations: This Americain LifeNPRWikipediaThese Organizations all work though user donations, and work well. NPR is a huge news organization that has thousands of employees. Sponsorships are not the only way to become economically viable.
Excellent point. Also, I would add those organizations remain on a donation only basis so they can remain unbiased and keep control of content, much the same reason as Day is avoiding sponsorship.
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based on the ads asking for donations that wikipedia refuses to call ads. wikipedia is doing okay, but i wouldn't say it's doing great. i think it really should shift to an advertising model. the other two are essentially the same thing (as they're in partnership with each other), merchandise, and have strong support from political and corporate sponsors that get a notable benefit from their work (and day9 wasn't saying he was looking for sponsorship). not the greatest comparisons, which was kinda my point.
i was comparing day9 to webcartoonists personally, and most of them have shifted from donations to stronger advertising (take a hint wikipedia, i really wouldn't mind google ads or some other major advertiser on your site) and especially merchandising (both of which are limited options for day9 as i mentioned in my original post).
edit
Excellent point. Also, I would add those organizations remain on a donation only basis so they can remain unbiased and keep control of content, much the same reason as Day is avoiding sponsorship.
of those three wikipedia is the only one that's solely donations. taxes support the other two. if you don't believe me, wikipedia it.
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