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On January 02 2011 01:10 Darren1337 wrote:
You guys suck, jesus christ. I couldn't care less about how technical he gets. He himself is hilarious. Nothing more enjoyable to me than just sitting down, having dinner and listening to him carry on the way he does. I like that sean tries to appeal to a wider audience, not the .7% or whatever it is of "tip top" diamond players.
It's great that you can take enough enjoyment out of all of his casts to remain loyal and watch them all, but there are a large number of us (myself included) who completely skip the fun casts because we're looking for content. Please explain to me why there's something wrong with that? Is the problem with giving Sean feedback? He mentioned recently that doing Funday Monday and Newbie Tuesday requires a lot more time and effort than normal dailies do, and if the community finds the fun casts to be less appealing it seems to me it is our obligation to tell him so.
To be abundantly clear, I adore Day's casting. I have watched his analysis of Jaedong vs Stork on Match Point so many times that my browser auto-completes the URL. That's a game that is broken down beautifully and analyzed on a level I can't possibly do while remaining incredibly entertaining. We all know Sean is an amazing caster and analyst, but when he's not providing the "high level analysis / commentary" as is advertised I personally choose to watch something else. My choice doesn't affect you in any way.
Also, if you think only the "'tip top' diamond players" are taking things away from Day's casts, you are sorely mistaken. The top diamond players already know how push distance should affect choice of expansion or when to match an opponent's expansion count versus pushing on two bases, the people who really benefit from such insight are those of us looking to improve our game. Think of it as a Newbie Tuesday where we have a correct visual representation of the ideas being talked about. Sean has always stressed that you can't learn as definitively from a replay where your opponent is making constant mistakes, because you haven't isolated the variables enough to test your build. This is the same concept - when I watch a Newbie Tuesday and spend half the time wondering to myself "would that push have worked if he hadn't forgotten 2 depots?" it's detracts from things a bit for me.
Cheers
-Tai
tl:dr - We come to Day[9].tv for the high-level analysis and concepts that are relevant at all levels. When you focus purely on lower levels all you do is alienate part of your audience and weaken the tools available to you. New players can learn a ton from seeing why Ret lost that roach army or why Qxc stopped dropping then, but it's hard to take anything away from someone with sloppy macro who gets run over with 2k in the bank.
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Have you people even seen Day9 BW casts ? If you did, you wouldnt be able to believe he isnt capable to providing interesting insights for any level of skill at any time (and entertain you!)
Thing is, he is focusing all his minds effort to help newbies become better gamers, and thus giving us more experienced players very little if anything to make it worthwhile watching the daily just for seans lovely face and lovely voice.
I have the pc near my bed so, I used to leave Day9 on that autobroadcast mode where there was always a daily going on, and went to bed with my headphones in my head, sometimes his analysis was so interesting i slept in the middle of it without removing the headphones, thats how amazing day9 was.
I think if you get 2 high level players, tell them to duke it out, and ask day9 to analyse it later, he will methodically, patiently, discover things even they player might not have realized or intended, he just needs to focus on it.
Heres my suggestion, we have funday monday, newbie tuesday, friendsday wednesday, why not do funday monday every 2 weeks, and do a pro monday every 2 weeks. that it doesnt get stale.
I gotta admit, if it were up to be id be gone with anything that isnt serious analyses in real games, thats what got me into day9, addicted me into day9, and its making me rant into his topic =O
Get the highest level game possible out since last week and analyse the hel
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The really cool thing about the Fun day's is that it encourages very original play and thus creates new strategies. Newbie Tuesday is redundant to what we already learn from him in his pro-game analysis, Friendsday Wednesday is probably the most awesome as it gives you insight in the thought process of the player AT THAT SPECIFIC MOMENT.
So, If it was all on me, I'd drop Newbday, make Monday once every 2 monday's and get Friendsday Wednesday rolling again!
Just my cents 
Love you Day[J],
Toastie
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On January 02 2011 03:04 ToastieNL wrote:The really cool thing about the Fun day's is that it encourages very original play and thus creates new strategies. Newbie Tuesday is redundant to what we already learn from him in his pro-game analysis, Friendsday Wednesday is probably the most awesome as it gives you insight in the thought process of the player AT THAT SPECIFIC MOMENT. So, If it was all on me, I'd drop Newbday, make Monday once every 2 monday's and get Friendsday Wednesday rolling again! Just my cents Love you Day[J], Toastie
Well you´re wrong :D
Strategies Can evolve from constraints, these constraints are however not ridiculous constraints. First Funday was pretty decent but nothing amazing at all, name 1 viable strat we´ve seen since then that has sprung out from the Fundays.
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What I ment is that it promotes thinking "out-of-the-box". While the doubles Dailies where pretty useless, actually, like the halfsies or the useless FFA on alphabet, the Carrier Rush or the No Queens where very, very interessting, as was the Battlecruiserrush we had a while ago. There are however a few problems with this. With the Queens Funday it wasn't a really big issue, but the players we see have terrible, terrible macro, with the exception of HuK with his Carrier Rushes. This makes the idea cool, but the actual in-game effects won't work with proper macro.
What we need is some dailies like... Well, I got some.
- Zerg must kill XX units/structures with Nydus/Drop before getting an 3rd/4rth/etc'd expo (Like, 15 for the 3rd expo, 20 for 4rth expo). This will promote the testing with drop and nydus which are very unexplored and offer a lot of potential.
- Terran sends out an SCV to scout every time Calldown MULE is being used, but cannot send an SCV out at any other moment. This will make Terrans scout more efficiently and might promote map- awareness, as well as making Terrans less depended on Scan.
- Protoss uses Warp Prisms to attack, either as a moveable Pylon or as a dropship to launch an attack in- base (which is quite costly).
- Zerg is only allowed to get one tech structure per Expand, with the exception of the Spawning Pool as well as setting up an attack with this new unit included in the arsenal. (So you get 1 more unit option per base, decreasing the tech- switch potential of Zerg and might give us insight in some cool timing windows that get discovered by more aggression, but it disables Hatch First builds.)
- Terran sends at least 5 SCVs with every attack with the purpose of repairing or building Turrets and Bunkers to make the push a lot stronger, at the cost of being slower. This might promote Mech play.
Just some ideas.
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some people just cant afford to have fun 
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We call those people 'the minority'
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On January 02 2011 03:08 Sl4ktarN wrote:
Well you´re wrong :D
Strategies Can evolve from constraints, these constraints are however not ridiculous constraints. First Funday was pretty decent but nothing amazing at all, name 1 viable strat we´ve seen since then that has sprung out from the Fundays.
Why do you assume there's an obligation to generate a viable strategy every daily? I don't think you "get" entertainment.
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I'm not a big fan of Funday Monday myself, but I really like Newbie Tuesday, being a newbie. High Diamond players get three dailies a week of high level analysis, let us newbies keep our one day!
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i only watch the funday mondays. most of his casts take too long, and i feel i'm at the point where it's better to learn from my own mistakes than watch others'.
personally, i kinda want to see no warp gate upgrade as a funday (which would force using limitted gateway units to back up mass high tier armies, i'm thinking mass immortals or mass phoenix which could be really cool), or maybe no tech labs (which would likely force highly creative and aggressive drop play as well as allowing terran to get great air control but very limitted ground control).
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On January 02 2011 03:58 ToastieNL wrote:
What I ment is that it promotes thinking "out-of-the-box". While the doubles Dailies where pretty useless, actually, like the halfsies or the useless FFA on alphabet, the Carrier Rush or the No Queens where very, very interessting, as was the Battlecruiserrush we had a while ago. There are however a few problems with this. With the Queens Funday it wasn't a really big issue, but the players we see have terrible, terrible macro, with the exception of HuK with his Carrier Rushes. This makes the idea cool, but the actual in-game effects won't work with proper macro.
What we need is some dailies like... Well, I got some.
- Zerg must kill XX units/structures with Nydus/Drop before getting an 3rd/4rth/etc'd expo (Like, 15 for the 3rd expo, 20 for 4rth expo). This will promote the testing with drop and nydus which are very unexplored and offer a lot of potential.
- Terran sends out an SCV to scout every time Calldown MULE is being used, but cannot send an SCV out at any other moment. This will make Terrans scout more efficiently and might promote map- awareness, as well as making Terrans less depended on Scan.
- Protoss uses Warp Prisms to attack, either as a moveable Pylon or as a dropship to launch an attack in- base (which is quite costly).
- Zerg is only allowed to get one tech structure per Expand, with the exception of the Spawning Pool as well as setting up an attack with this new unit included in the arsenal. (So you get 1 more unit option per base, decreasing the tech- switch potential of Zerg and might give us insight in some cool timing windows that get discovered by more aggression, but it disables Hatch First builds.)
- Terran sends at least 5 SCVs with every attack with the purpose of repairing or building Turrets and Bunkers to make the push a lot stronger, at the cost of being slower. This might promote Mech play.
Just some ideas.
Lol. Those sound like fantastically fun mondays. I don't think you get the point
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On January 02 2011 04:43 TERRANLOL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2011 03:58 ToastieNL wrote:
What I ment is that it promotes thinking "out-of-the-box". While the doubles Dailies where pretty useless, actually, like the halfsies or the useless FFA on alphabet, the Carrier Rush or the No Queens where very, very interessting, as was the Battlecruiserrush we had a while ago. There are however a few problems with this. With the Queens Funday it wasn't a really big issue, but the players we see have terrible, terrible macro, with the exception of HuK with his Carrier Rushes. This makes the idea cool, but the actual in-game effects won't work with proper macro.
What we need is some dailies like... Well, I got some.
- Zerg must kill XX units/structures with Nydus/Drop before getting an 3rd/4rth/etc'd expo (Like, 15 for the 3rd expo, 20 for 4rth expo). This will promote the testing with drop and nydus which are very unexplored and offer a lot of potential.
- Terran sends out an SCV to scout every time Calldown MULE is being used, but cannot send an SCV out at any other moment. This will make Terrans scout more efficiently and might promote map- awareness, as well as making Terrans less depended on Scan.
- Protoss uses Warp Prisms to attack, either as a moveable Pylon or as a dropship to launch an attack in- base (which is quite costly).
- Zerg is only allowed to get one tech structure per Expand, with the exception of the Spawning Pool as well as setting up an attack with this new unit included in the arsenal. (So you get 1 more unit option per base, decreasing the tech- switch potential of Zerg and might give us insight in some cool timing windows that get discovered by more aggression, but it disables Hatch First builds.)
- Terran sends at least 5 SCVs with every attack with the purpose of repairing or building Turrets and Bunkers to make the push a lot stronger, at the cost of being slower. This might promote Mech play.
Just some ideas. Lol. Those sound like fantastically fun mondays. I don't think you get the point
Excuse my stupidity, but I don't understand your answer. The first half of it is positive, the second half is negative. Care to elaborate?
If I'd want to see some stupid play I'd just get myself a constraint and lose 5 games and lol at them, as long as the monday still had a function, I'd be fine with it, but some of the ones we had are just plain stupid, a waste of time. Why don't combine fun and usefulness, like you'll ever only make one unit in the entire game!?
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People who are saying that Fundays increase diversity, I have to say, really? Pretty much every funday monday I've gone "Oh, I'll whip out Build X I refined a few months back but abandoned because it wasn't stable and send it in when I have a kickass game of epicness". And then he doesn't chose it but rants for like 5 minutes about how every game he got just had people sitting in their base until they attack moved at 20 minutes. And then he just chooses the guy who uses nukes.
I wouldn't mind so much but it seems like his "normal analysis" days aren't even really insightful lately, do we just not have really insightful games in SC2? I would like him to really get into all the details of a game.. I used to just learn even just one thing from a day9 episode but now I do not even learn that.
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I don't know. Recently he's done a lot of casting, and quite frankly he gives a lot of really good analysis there to help people out. So I can't really fault him for having more fun on his dailies.
Certainly he lost out on a lot of normal daily analysis when he was casting and fundaying and newbieing practically nonstop. But it seems to me like before he left for break he finally found a better groove for both analyzing and having fun. Personally, I think day9 recognized how much fewer straight dailies he was doing.
So yea, keep up with the fundays and newbies. It's important to take a break from being serious. But of course that assumes we were serious to begin with.
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To everyone who is complaining about Day9 dailys. HE IS DOING IT FOR FREEEE!!! SO STFU AND ENJOY!! HOLY CRAP!!
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On January 02 2011 07:13 GoldenH wrote:
People who are saying that Fundays increase diversity, I have to say, really? Pretty much every funday monday I've gone "Oh, I'll whip out Build X I refined a few months back but abandoned because it wasn't stable and send it in when I have a kickass game of epicness". And then he doesn't chose it but rants for like 5 minutes about how every game he got just had people sitting in their base until they attack moved at 20 minutes. And then he just chooses the guy who uses nukes.
I wouldn't mind so much but it seems like his "normal analysis" days aren't even really insightful lately, do we just not have really insightful games in SC2? I would like him to really get into all the details of a game.. I used to just learn even just one thing from a day9 episode but now I do not even learn that.
Otherwise known as a learning curve, you are obviously going to learn 'less' each additional time you watch one.
In addition, he does them for free, six days a week, and you are complaining that on two of these days he does something that you dont enjoy? Seems a bit self-involved.
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I think there will be a lot less complaining once he gets back to his normal schedule. I just ask that everyone recall Day's goal: for E-Sports to make it in the West. That means catering to a wider audience. Newbies find it really cool that a tip-top player legitimately finds interest in their play. As a BW newbie, I had to work REALLY, REALLY hard to get B on iccup, but that doesn't mean I have to look down on how "good" SC2 newbies "have it."
That said, sprinkle in some BW, Day! Analyses of BW could really shed light on SC2!
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I personally don't watch Newbie Tueday but I dont bash the show because I dont like it. Even if I don't find it interessing some others may. We are more than one watching Day9 and we got to keep that in mind.
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tbh the truth is that funday monday gets more viewers than the others, so obviously there must be SOMETHING good about it :D. its entertaining! no need to be so serious all the time, and theres still 3 days out of the week for the more serious analysis if thats what you desire as well
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EPT
