EPTDay[9].tv Daily - Page 436
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Therealdevil
Netherlands1021 Posts
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cyoadventure
United States35 Posts
On August 06 2010 01:13 escruting wrote: anyone is getting "Rooster Teeth" on day9tv.blip.tv? WEIRD ya I'm getting that also. BUT NEVER FEAR http://blip.tv/file/3968078/ for that is the direct link to: Day[9] Daily #159 - OgreEli vs XLord enjoy! | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i38.tinypic.com/2mpbf2w.png) http://i38.tinypic.com/2mpbf2w.png | ||
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Patat0r
France142 Posts
On August 06 2010 01:20 Merikh wrote: Did someone hijack his page? lol http://i38.tinypic.com/2mpbf2w.png Yeah WTF ? | ||
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Merikh
United States918 Posts
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Darkside-
United States52 Posts
On August 06 2010 01:20 cyoadventure wrote: ya I'm getting that also. BUT NEVER FEAR http://blip.tv/file/3968078/ for that is the direct link to: Day[9] Daily #159 - OgreEli vs XLord enjoy! Fantastic, thanks a lot for that! | ||
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Warba
Austria16 Posts
And everyone needs to stop with this Nydus Worm crap. They're garbage offensively at high level play -- you won't win many games with a a Nydus Worm that you wouldn't have won otherwise. okok, i admit, the nydus worm argument is overused, but still, I can't shake off the feeling that they are the same is terran nukes and protoss motherships (or warp prisms if you want), very powerful tools, that need to be learned to use correctly, even by the top players out there, they have their role but executing them at the right moment needs a lot more knowledge and general game sense than building up a good army mix, expanding and then finishing the game in one epic clash Oh, so you want to turn every game into a ridiculous ending with random base-trading? no, not every game that involve zerg, but in this spot it would have been a viable option (taking into consideration what I wrote above). since... when your army can't beat his army in a straight up fight, what options do you have left? | ||
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Graven
United States314 Posts
On August 06 2010 02:28 Warba wrote: okok, i admit, the nydus worm argument is overused, but still, I can't shake off the feeling that they are the same is terran nukes and protoss motherships (or warp prisms if you want), very powerful tools, that need to be learned to use correctly, even by the top players out there, they have their role but executing them at the right moment needs a lot more knowledge and general game sense than building up a good army mix, expanding and then finishing the game in one epic clash no, not every game that involve zerg, but in this spot it would have been a viable option (taking into consideration what I wrote above). since... when your army can't beat his army in a straight up fight, what options do you have left? In regard to Nydus Worms, I don't think they're useless. In fact, just the other day I used them to great efficiency on Lost Temple. I was against a Protoss and we shared a side of the map (he was 3 o'clock and I was 6 o'clock)...he proxy Gateway'd in the middle of the map and came extrmely fast with a Zealot push, preventing me from FE'ing. He continued to swarm units below my ramp and my ling/Roach push wasn't breaking it. So, I made a Nydus to the 9 o'clock expansion and the top left island expansion and just as he was wiping out my main base, I was swarming around the map with 20+ Mutas. It actaully led to a very interesting game and I continued to use my Nydus Network throughout. My point is not that Nydus Networks are terrible, it's that they shouldn't be relied on offensively. It's immensely more important as Zerg to create a better army composition (something that "counters" your opponent's), secure expansions, etc., than it is to revolve gameplay around a gimmicky offensive tactic (that isn't nearly as effective as non-Zerg players think it is). So sure, Nydus Networks may prove useful in certain scenarios (just like a Mothership), but they're certainly not the secret weapon Zerg needs to unlock to win more games. In regard to base swapping, I used to paly random and now solely play Zerg in solo (still random in team games). Not once in a base-trading scenario have I been Zerg or seen Zerg come out on top. They're always at the biggest disadvantage in a base trade because in an end-game scenario, Zerg counts on having quick re-enforcements. If both players have 200/200 armies and all the buildings magically disappeared and were no longer relevant, the non-Zerg army would almost always have the advantage. Base trading is not a viable tactic for Zerg at all -- it simply delays the inevitable...and further more, IN EVERY CASE, Zerg would have been better off defending the opposing push in thier base with the opportunity of re-enforcements than they would counter-attacking the opponent's base. So, to answer your question: "when your army can't beat his army in a straight up fight, what options do you have left?" ...Not many. | ||
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Warba
Austria16 Posts
and to futher analyse this offensive nydus play, i am not saying you should use one nydus worm and swarm out of it and tryin to win right off the bat. It should more be used as a "1-2-punch" style, here's how: first, plant a nydus worm in a safe location in the center of the map, oder in a hidden spot somewhere near an enemy expo, then, once it is finished, load your army into the network and plant a second nydus worm into the enemy main base (or another expo for the sake of naming more possibilitys) then you unload your army with the first nydus while the second one builds, this leaves 2 possibilities a) the enemy splits his army to take on your army and kill the other nydus worm (chances of direct assault are rising) b) the enemy confronts you head on with everything, in this case you retreat and pop out inside his main, which will result in terrible terrible damage inside his main because his immobile army is way out of position, and by the time he arrives to save the rest of his base, you can once again retreat and build up even more, add on more expos, upgrade and so forth | ||
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AyJay
1515 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
What has been noted here or on another thread are mutalisks. They are SO MUCH DANG better against thors than I originally thought. You need just to micro them a little. The micro trick is extremely simple (big credit to who found it, I don't know who it was though  ): Select all your mutalisks, hit Stop, then MOVE behind enemy forces and when above them, Stop again. They will be spread out so thor will hit only one at a time. 16 DPS hardcounter? I don't think so! This is what allowed me to kinda easily defeat platinum and lower terran players. I do not play on pro-level, so I don't know about that. | ||
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st4rfox
Poland15 Posts
which is totally weird as i can run games :O anyone else got this? | ||
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Grettin
42400 Posts
On August 06 2010 03:33 st4rfox wrote: wtf, when i load up the countdown party videos i get some kinda graphic error, into a bluescreen, into a shutdown which is totally weird as i can run games :O anyone else got this? Are you using Chrome? I cant watch the videos either, shows only greenish and has a huge graphic errors, but the video runs fine. Worked perfectly in mozilla tho. | ||
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Graven
United States314 Posts
On August 06 2010 03:11 Warba wrote: but if that's all so true, and games are in fact big direct confrontations, and whoever wins those, will have the upper hand and eventually win, doesn't that mean the first player to make a decisive move towards a certain build has a disadvantage? since, the enemy can now start to "counter" that directly and win the game, that's more something we saw early beta, (mass roach vs. mass marauder...), but it sounds a little short sighted in the long run You're taking it to an extreme; I didn't write all games, I was referring to a base-trade scenario. Also, I think to some extent the person who has scouted most recently has the biggest advantage in the upcming battle. For Zerg, it's especailly true. To put everythnig on an even playing field, I'll use ZvZ and take it from the first person perspective. I'll send out my 10th drone to scout -- he's purely looking to see if there was an early pool, when gas is going down or if it's a FE. Assuming the opponent Zerg lays down a 14-gas/pool, the drone leaves. Let's say I also put down a 14 gas/pool. Now my first set of lings pop out and I throw down a Roach Warren and I send the lings back to my opponent. This time I'm looking to see if there's a Roach Warren or a Baneling Nest. Let's say there's a Roach Warren. Now, I know I don't have to worry about a Baneling bust at my ramp, so I expand and throw down some Spine Crawlers. If I saw a Baneling Nest, I'd macro up and stack Roaches and Queens at my ramp. That information I gained was invaluable...if my opponent wasn't donig the same to me, my scouting advantage is going to be a win since I'll soon have an economic advantage. Playing Zerg revolves around seeing what your opponent is doing and responding to it. If I see a ton of Marines, I'm throwing down a Baneling Nest. If I see a ton of Warpgates, I'm throwing down a Hydra Den, etc. Everything done as Zerg is a reaction to what the opponent does. The reason for that is Zerg cannot control the tempo of the game unless he goes for a Baneling Nest or a one-base Muta build. Zerg is dead last in bonus damage to certain types of units (there's another thread about this right now), so they can't afford to walk into a battle against a better composed army. If Terran is sitting in their base massing Mauraders, I can't sit in my base massing Roaches...I need a way to counter his build. Now, you might ask: Well, why doesn't the Terran or Protoss need to worry about countering the Zerg's units? The answer is that is in the early game, Zerg can't win (other than banelings). If I'm sitting in my base mindlessly produsing ling/Roach, I may or may not be able to defend the push coming my way, but no matter what, I won't be able to break through the Terran wall-in or the Protoss Gateway units/FF wall-in with that composition. Zerg need an expansion to gain an economic advantage to win games. Zerg play for the mid-game and in turn are always reacting to the opponent from the start. On August 06 2010 03:11 Warba wrote: and to futher analyse this offensive nydus play, i am not saying you should use one nydus worm and swarm out of it and tryin to win right off the bat. It should more be used as a "1-2-punch" style, here's how: first, plant a nydus worm in a safe location in the center of the map, oder in a hidden spot somewhere near an enemy expo, then, once it is finished, load your army into the network and plant a second nydus worm into the enemy main base (or another expo for the sake of naming more possibilitys) then you unload your army with the first nydus while the second one builds, this leaves 2 possibilities a) the enemy splits his army to take on your army and kill the other nydus worm (chances of direct assault are rising) b) the enemy confronts you head on with everything, in this case you retreat and pop out inside his main, which will result in terrible terrible damage inside his main because his immobile army is way out of position, and by the time he arrives to save the rest of his base, you can once again retreat and build up even more, add on more expos, upgrade and so forth What you're referring to is nothing more than convoluted harrassment. It's no different than telling a Protoss player to attack one place with their main force and another place with four to six DTs. It might be a good tactic, but that's all it is -- it's not something that you can lock yourself into from the start of the game. The issue I have is that non-Zerg players think it's alright for diversion tactics to be a sidebar for Protoss and Terran, but it's expected that they should be the sole option for Zerg. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
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Miraj
Germany30 Posts
(sry for my bad english and some laggs :/ ) reupload: | ||
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Qw4z1
Sweden55 Posts
On August 06 2010 05:13 Miraj wrote: someone asked for the stuff day9 made before daily 159. here it is: (sry for my bad english and some laggs :/ ) + Show Spoiler + Thats a great little vid. Btw whats the name of that album? I gotz 2 have it! =) | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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Qw4z1
Sweden55 Posts
On August 06 2010 03:33 st4rfox wrote: wtf, when i load up the countdown party videos i get some kinda graphic error, into a bluescreen, into a shutdown which is totally weird as i can run games :O anyone else got this? I think there is some solution in the countdown party thread. Page 186-187 or something like that. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Zerg is a gas whore.. often you just don't want to spend 300 minimum on a thing that can fail so easily. | ||
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