EPTDay[9].tv Daily - Page 1062
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11108 Posts
Maybe divide it into 3 sections section 1: The end game mech army: What it consists of, why it is effective, what are its weaknesses section 2: Openings that lend themselves to mech mid/late games section 3: Variants on midgame mech (Air or tank or thor based armies) possible examples: Thorzain MC, Jijjakji's awesome build against Puzzle (the guy before oz). | ||
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LagT_T
Argentina535 Posts
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DopeSick93
Netherlands8 Posts
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Rainofpain
United States125 Posts
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Kresnik02
Brazil36 Posts
The graph you showed at the stream today about the food X time with your oponent expanding isn't right, since the food will not drop. The relation between army suply/drone suply will on the first 2 expansions, but the thing you was talking about was this one: ![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/17u93p.jpg) The "right" graph isnt that right too, since the food from the guy who doen't expand will not reach the food after the first big boost on army. | ||
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Shindo
United States22 Posts
On December 29 2011 13:23 Kresnik02 wrote: Hey Day[9], i dunno if you read all of the posts on this thread, but doesn't hurt trying. The graph you showed at the stream today about the food X time with your oponent expanding isn't right, since the food will not drop. The relation between army suply/drone suply will on the first 2 expansions, but the thing you was talking about was this one: The "right" graph isnt that right too, since the food from the guy who doen't expand will not reach the food after the first big boost on army. Something about that doesn't feel right. The first graph implies you completely stopped producing while your expansion was building which isn't the case. If you had to cut production to build that expansion then we should see a short-term dip in the rate of production but the rate shouldn't equal zero. Even then, most builds never even require you to cut production. Specifically with zerg, which is the race I have most experience with, expanding never has an affect on production rate. You continue building at a continuous rate based on larva spawn time. The moment the expansion pops, rate of production should immediately double, assuming your econ is already strong enough to support that rate which is usually the case if you are macroing effectively and haven't suffered against harassment. I understand this might not be the exact case for all races and respective builds. When T and P expand, they're production obviously doesn't immediately double. However, it still holds true that expanding never stops anybodies production completely. | ||
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ensign_lee
United States1178 Posts
This is less true for Zerg, since their hatch is both their expansion AND their production facility. But for Protoss, for example, putting the 400 minerals into a Nexus means that you have 4 fewer zealots than you could have / or fewer gateways, etc. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
Usually when you expand you do not cut probe/drone production immediatly (why would you?) so the cost to get an expansion up and running is much higher than 400 minerals. Let's use protoss since they gain "the least" from an expo: You drop 400 mins on a nexus. So far you have gained nothing except some more chronoboost. Now let's say you had optimal saturation in your main (usually you don't by the time you expand, but maybe you did) so sending some over doesn't gain you a lot. So to increase your income and get back the cost you build another 10 probes. So your expense is now 900 so you would need to mine nearly 2 minutes with those 10 probes for it to pay off. Note you still haven't had any net gain, only broken even. On the other hand the guy who didn't expand and who cut probes at optimal saturation has most likely spent all his money on units, so at that point his army must be bigger than yours. So no, you wouldn't completly stop producing units, but the other guy definitly is producing more of them. If you use zerg as an example you could consider the 2-3 cycles of drones you'd produce a "stop" in unit production. Yes drones are units but they obviously aren't good fighters. Every race has a 1base build which uses every single shred of ressources you can gather and cuts workers. If you compare those builds to any kind of expansion build they must by definition have higher army values. Simply imagine that for every worker you build he is building a unit, the initial expansion cost was invested into more production facilities by him (3 more rax, gates e.g.). Note that the situation obviously isn't as clear cut as it looks above. Nothing stops a player from cutting workers and producing as much as he can while he feels unsafe. The point i am trying to make is that too many players (not only zergs) discount how much ressources they put into workers and how unsafe that makes them against properly timed one base all-ins. I am sure everyone has seen at least 100 games where a Zerg opponent produced just one round of drones too many. The same thing happens to Terrans except it isn't as visible. When i analyze my replays to see where i lost after fast expanding the production bar usually speaks a clear message. My opponent was building units non-stop from 4+ production facilities, whereas i started building units from 5-6 approx 1 minute before he came to attack me. Simple math usually means that he will have more shit  Obviously some builds are the exception. Terrans e.g. have the mule which increases mineral income fast from their expansion. 1 rax into 4 rax gasless FE can amass a marine ball almost at the same speed a dedicated 3rax 1 base play can. But aside from that example almost every true fast expand sacrifices early game numbers for a midgame eco advantadge. That is in a nutshell what the "right" graph says. Even if it is a bit too general since the different FE builds would look differently. | ||
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Shindo
United States22 Posts
To be clear, I don't disagree with you. Those minerals could have indeed been spent on units/production facilities. It's just a point separate from my own. Edit: I agree with Tula's assessment completely, as well. | ||
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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Flying Potato
United States77 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:35 crown77 wrote: tvp mech plz! Yea this would be interesting, have a daily maybe from both viewpoints, if enough ppl request it, maybe he'll do it -_- | ||
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413X
Sweden203 Posts
I wish day9 made an episode of countering 1-1-1. There are diffrent kinds of 1-1-1 and with that said some strats may not be as effective as others. Some are just plainly attacking at an earlier timing, like 9 or 10 minutes. Others include having thors instead of siege tanks. Other include cloaked banshees and some is not even so all-in. An entire episode of "only dealing with 1-1-1 crap." So that in the future, no newbie shall die to this ridicolously strong strat. | ||
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FederigoEU
Germany50 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:40 413X wrote: I have a request for the Thought Hammer. If day9 has gone through this earlier, plz post episode thnx. I wish day9 made an episode of countering 1-1-1. There are diffrent kinds of 1-1-1 and with that said some strats may not be as effective as others. Some are just plainly attacking at an earlier timing, like 9 or 10 minutes. Others include having thors instead of siege tanks. Other include cloaked banshees and some is not even so all-in. An entire episode of "only dealing with 1-1-1 crap." So that in the future, no newbie shall die to this ridicolously strong strat. Even if you know the 1-1-1 is coming it is still hard to hold it , so in my opinion it really depends on your unit management and not really on your BO. But if you early expanded and scouted a 1-1-1 , stop probe production and pump out zealots and immortals. Also there is a really nice guide on the TL Forum here made by QTIP if i recall correctly just use the search function  | ||
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JFlynn
United States7 Posts
http://calnewport.com/blog/2010/01/06/the-grandmaster-in-the-corner-office-what-the-study-of-chess-experts-teaches-us-about-building-a-remarkable-life/ http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/11/11/if-youre-busy-youre-doing-something-wrong-the-surprisingly-relaxed-lives-of-elite-achievers/ http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/12/23/flow-is-the-opiate-of-the-medicore-advice-on-getting-better-from-an-accomplished-piano-player/ There's some interesting ramifications here for Starcraft. But it's not clear to me what deliberate practice looks like in SC2. It's probably not laddering all day, although laddering DOES meet some of the requirements for deliberate practice. In particular, if you go over your replay every time so you have immediate feedback on any mistakes, that probably helps. But it just doesn't feel hard enough to quality fully. Other notes on the topic: http://www.amazon.com/Talent-Overrated-Separates-World-Class-Performers/dp/1591842247/ref=pd_sim_b_6 http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/ericsson/ericsson.exp.perf.html | ||
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
To me it seems like day9 is trying to make himself appeal more to the lower level sc2 community (kinda like husky and hd did in the past) to gain more viewers, his youtube channel is labelled "startcraft 2 and skyrim".. really skyrim? skyrim isn't even an online game man.. skyrim isn't esports.. seems like your using your popularity to gain more viewers from different games, its no longer about sc2 or esports its about how many viewers you get. I know this sounds like a rant, but I have been following day9 since sc2 beta and I just don't like the way hes going with things, every time I watch him playing other games in his daily I just alt+f4, maybe he lost his passion for sc2, I don't know.. at least try another competitive game like dota2 or something instead of single player games. Either way, I'm always a fan. | ||
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BritWrangler
United Kingdom120 Posts
On January 03 2012 06:17 SuperFanBoy wrote: I have kind of lost a lot of respect for day9, he streams himself playing other games like skyrim and amnesia but doesn't stream himself laddering on sc2, yet 99.9% of his fan base are from sc2. Artosis has put his pride/ego on the side and started streaming his ladder, he doesn't care if it makes him look bad but he does it for the sc2 community anyway, and the community has responded well to this and are very appreciative of it, I wish day9 would do the same, stop hiding behind smurfs and show us your skills day9.. I became your fan through sc2, not skyrim.. If you play other games at least play multiplayer competitive games instead of single player games. To me it seems like day9 is trying to make himself appeal more to the lower level sc2 community (kinda like husky and hd did in the past) to gain more viewers, his youtube channel is labelled "startcraft 2 and skyrim".. really skyrim? skyrim isn't even an online game man.. skyrim isn't esports.. seems like your using your popularity to gain more viewers from different games, its no longer about sc2 or esports its about how many viewers you get. I know this sounds like a rant, but I have been following day9 since sc2 beta and I just don't like the way hes going with things, every time I watch him playing other games in his daily I just alt+f4, maybe he lost his passion for sc2, I don't know.. at least try another competitive game like dota2 or something instead of single player games. Either way, I'm always a fan. He's trying to expand his business to make more money, you ungrateful dipshit. Day9 doesn't have to continue to make videos that ONLY appeal to a very niche market; by including other games in his daily he will draw in more viewers from different games, and more viewers = more money. This is not some hobby that Day9 does to satisfy the hardcore fans; this is his life, his full-time occupation. The daily is no longer something that runs alongside Day9's education - this is his life, it pays the bills. Christ some people are SOOOOO fucking ungrateful. User was warned for this post | ||
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BritWrangler
United Kingdom120 Posts
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Witten
United States2094 Posts
On January 03 2012 06:17 SuperFanBoy wrote: I have kind of lost a lot of respect for day9, he streams himself playing other games like skyrim and amnesia but doesn't stream himself laddering on sc2, yet 99.9% of his fan base are from sc2. Artosis has put his pride/ego on the side and started streaming his ladder, he doesn't care if it makes him look bad but he does it for the sc2 community anyway, and the community has responded well to this and are very appreciative of it, I wish day9 would do the same, stop hiding behind smurfs and show us your skills day9.. I became your fan through sc2, not skyrim.. If you play other games at least play multiplayer competitive games instead of single player games. To me it seems like day9 is trying to make himself appeal more to the lower level sc2 community (kinda like husky and hd did in the past) to gain more viewers, his youtube channel is labelled "startcraft 2 and skyrim".. really skyrim? skyrim isn't even an online game man.. skyrim isn't esports.. seems like your using your popularity to gain more viewers from different games, its no longer about sc2 or esports its about how many viewers you get. I know this sounds like a rant, but I have been following day9 since sc2 beta and I just don't like the way hes going with things, every time I watch him playing other games in his daily I just alt+f4, maybe he lost his passion for sc2, I don't know.. at least try another competitive game like dota2 or something instead of single player games. Either way, I'm always a fan. Umm, ok. Day9 totally makes himself appeal to the lower level of sc2. Hence Noobie Tuesday and Funday Monday. His daily's are supposed to be learning tools. He doesn't stream himself playing games because he does the Daily. That's the point of his stream. Artosis doesn't do Daily's. Instead, he streams. Sean prepares a lot for each and every one of his Daily's which is why he doesn't have much time to actually play the game. And we've seen him play before. He joins in on monobattles and stuff like that, and shows us his play in mechanics focused Daily's. If you want to watch a stream, watch a stream. If you want to watch a Daily, watch a Daily. Day9 doesn't have to do all of them. And you don't have to watch Amnesia or Skyrim. I sure didn't. And lost his passion. Hahahahahaha. That was funny. | ||
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CerpinTaxt
United States208 Posts
On January 03 2012 06:17 SuperFanBoy wrote: I have kind of lost a lot of respect for day9, he streams himself playing other games like skyrim and amnesia but doesn't stream himself laddering on sc2, yet 99.9% of his fan base are from sc2. Artosis has put his pride/ego on the side and started streaming his ladder, he doesn't care if it makes him look bad but he does it for the sc2 community anyway, and the community has responded well to this and are very appreciative of it, I wish day9 would do the same, stop hiding behind smurfs and show us your skills day9.. I became your fan through sc2, not skyrim.. If you play other games at least play multiplayer competitive games instead of single player games. To me it seems like day9 is trying to make himself appeal more to the lower level sc2 community (kinda like husky and hd did in the past) to gain more viewers, his youtube channel is labelled "startcraft 2 and skyrim".. really skyrim? skyrim isn't even an online game man.. skyrim isn't esports.. seems like your using your popularity to gain more viewers from different games, its no longer about sc2 or esports its about how many viewers you get. I know this sounds like a rant, but I have been following day9 since sc2 beta and I just don't like the way hes going with things, every time I watch him playing other games in his daily I just alt+f4, maybe he lost his passion for sc2, I don't know.. at least try another competitive game like dota2 or something instead of single player games. Either way, I'm always a fan. In one breath, you criticize him for trying "to gain more viewers," and the other you want him to stream SC2 games? No offense to Artosis, but "putting aside his pride/ego," is a lot easier when you run an ad every 10-15 min and make significant chunks of change for this. Clearly this has never been what Day[9] was about, as is evident in the fact that his daily is still free, along with every piece of content he's ever released. Yet, Day[9] is a bad guy for having fun with other games, so he's "trying to gain more viewers." Trust me, if all he cared about was viewership, he WOULD stream some SC2 games. These are such conflicting ideas it's sickening. Day[9] is human (i think...) and wants to enjoy playing other games like we all do. He's no longer a professional player, and frankly we are all to thank for that. If he were, we wouldn't have all the awesome content he has produced, and frankly he wouldn't be the same person at all. Honestly, who care's how good he is? I would be interested to watch him play as well, but I'd rather have the alternative (the person we have now) 1000X over. The reason we love Day[9] is not because of his abilities, but because of his personality, morals, and ideologies. | ||
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