EPT
First of all, let me preface this by saying that I like the idea of the Thor. I like giant robots that are far too big and far too ridiculous to actually be realistic.
Oh and a warning: Wall of Text incoming.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/FrozenArbiter/taterconcept12a.jpg)
The problem
However the Thor is problematic. It's a big fuck-off robot that's good at anti-air and good at anti-ground, all while having a ton of HP and no real unique characteristics.
In short, I think it lacks an identity. It's a little bit of everything but there's really nothing that sets it apart or makes you think "wow, that's pretty cool". It's just big. Big, and from the looks of things, a bit too massable.
The current Thor
The Thor currently has the following specifications:
HP: 400
Energy: 200
Ground Attack: 30dmg x 2, range 6
Air Attack: 10x4 (+4 per attack vs Light units), range 10
Mineral cost: 300
Gas cost: 300
Supply: 6
Produced by: Factory
Abilities:
250mm Cannon:
The thor gains an ability which attacks ground troops using the cannons on its back. The thor can only target one unit, which it does continually, stunning the target(such as a building) for 5 to 6 seconds while inflicting 500 damage. The thor is otherwise rendered helpless while the ability is in use.
Looking back
When the Thor was first introduced, it had some interesting differences from what we have now:
The first difference was its method of construction. Initially, in order to produce a Thor you would have your SCV build it, much like it would a building. I am not sure why this was scrapped, but I personally think it was a fantastic idea, and really added some uniqueness to the Thor, while emphasizing its enormous size.
Secondly, we have Mechanical Rebirth:
The thor can self-repair. Once a thor "dies" in combat, its wreckage remains on the battlefield. The terran player can spend resources to rebuild it relatively quickly. The enemy player must decide either to destroy the vulnerable wreckage or to target other units. The ability must be researched.
Not a bad idea at all. Perhaps it should require an SCV or Raven to salvage the wreck, but definitely an interesting mechanic for something this big. Very terran.
If you ever played CnC3 you would recognize this ability from the Scrin Tripod. In my limited experience, it worked well enough in that game, and I wouldn't mind it returning in this game.
Again, I do not know why it was removed - perhaps it was with good reason. I am simply including it for completeness.
It also had a different version of the particle cannon:
250mm Cannons (Previous Version)
Bombardment cannons in action.Artillery Strike was a powerful long-ranged area-of-effect attack. To use the Artillery Strike, the thor had to expend energy, then it "stabilized" itself as the cannons on its back were lowered. The four 250mm bombardment cannons alternated raining damage upon the area. This ability needed to be researched. The ability was later removed.
Bombardment cannons in action.Artillery Strike was a powerful long-ranged area-of-effect attack. To use the Artillery Strike, the thor had to expend energy, then it "stabilized" itself as the cannons on its back were lowered. The four 250mm bombardment cannons alternated raining damage upon the area. This ability needed to be researched. The ability was later removed.
Last, we have the Thors old weakness - its turning speed. Back when it was first introduced to the public (Blizzcon 2007), the Thors main weakness was its inability to quickly turn (and it had to face its target to attack it). A speedy enemy unit could run circles (literally) around it, taking significantly less damage as the Thor would struggle to line up for shots.
I think this was a very interesting mechanic but I think there's a potentially better way to implement it (more on that later).
Terran Racial Identity
In order to deeper examine what's wrong with the Thor, I want to briefly discuss what two traits I think distinguishes the Terran race in Starcraft (and Starcraft 2).
- Synergy
- Adaptability/versatility
Synergy is simple: Terran armies combine to become more than the sum of their parts. Marines+medics are basically two parts of one unit, something that some people like, and others don't - but nevertheless it's a good example of Terran as a race. Alone they really do not do much, but together they are potent.
The same goes for tanks+vultures. Strong alone, but working together they reach undreamed of heights.
I think the second trait is something they've put some emphasis on in SC2 so far, with the added importance of add-ons and switching between them (tech lab vs reactor). The basic Terran buildings all being able to fly, and the newly introduced Salvage system are further examples of this.
V-Gundam's old TvP strategy was nicknamed the Bamboo Push. The reason, I was told, was that because it might bend but it never breaks. I think this is a pretty fitting description of the Terran race as a whole - no matter what you throw at them, they will overcome it (maybe).
Applying the Identity
This section will have some ideas for how to make the Thor feel more like a Terran unit and less like an all-purpose giant mecha. I don't necessarily think that ALL of these options would have to be included, it is merely brainstorming.
To begin with, I'll be leaving all the pricings intact, and keep all its attacks and abilites the same in terms of stats.
To start off, I want to examine the two abilities it once had but that were taken away. Let's start with its production method - the SCV:
Pros:
- Very unique, adds to the feeling that you are constructing a giant behemoth and not just an ordinary unit.
- Doesn't take up factory space.
Cons:
- Vulnerable during construction.
- Possibly tedious to produce Thors as you cannot easily queue them remotely (ie you can't just hotkey your production facilities and press T for Thor).
As far as the first weakness is concerned, I think that you can easily just tweak how much armor it has during construction, or allow non-building SCVs to repair it while it's being built. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have this as a weakness either.
The second problem is, in my view, fairly minor. If the Thor works as intended, I think it shouldn't be a unit you mass in Ultralisk like numbers.
Mechanical Rebirth
The thor lost this ability as of May 2009. Blizzard's internal playtesting showed the ability to be impractical.
I would like to know more about why this was found to be impractical, and if they experimented with a version where you'd have to use SCVs to re-activate the wreck. Personally I think it would fit the Terran theme very well.
Now for some ideas of my own:
Modules
It is possible that this has been suggested previously (a MaybeNextTime post perhaps?), but I'll bring it up anyway.
How about instead of having every Thor start with GtA, GtG and a special heavy artillery attack, you keep all three, but allow only one of them to be active at once?
The way I'd have it work is much like the add-on system for terran buildings, except you'd be able to refit the Thor. So let's say you need some close range GtG - you give him the Thor's Hammer module. You scan the zerg switching to mass mutas? No problem, you quickly refit (for a cost, and some upgrade downtime) your Thors with missile launchers.
Need to break some tough defenses? Switch to the 250mm cannon.
Another thing worth considering would be some kind of d-matrix type ability, allowing it to act as a true "tank" (its stated purpose is, afterall to act as the "tip of the spear" when assaulting heavily fortified locations).
A further module idea which is a little bit less fleshed out, would be some kind of support module. Perhaps allowing it to repair at a really quick rate, or adding a comsat station, or returning the ghosts "psi-sense" ability. Things like that.
Each module would cost a certain amount of minerals/gas, and would have a short re-fit time during which the Thor would be unable to attack (or perhaps even unable to move?).
Mobile Bunker
In the recent Battle Report 4 thread, a poster brought up the possibility of having the Thor act as a mobile bunker. If anyone remembers Caller's posts suggesting the same thing for the Terran Dropship (a Gunship upgrade, to be exact), you'll recall I was a vocal supporter of this idea then, and I still am.
An upgrade could allow the Thor to carry X number of infantry units, which could all attack from out of it, like a bunker. In addition, you could do things like let SCVs repair from inside the Thor if loaded up, or let Ghosts cast EMP - things like that.
Basically it would become a walking fortress. This idea could be used alone, or in conjuction with the Module idea above (in which case the Thor should perhaps have some form of basic weaponry while upgraded with the bunker module).
Rear Armor
As talked about earlier, the Thor used to have a weakness in its slow turning speed, something which has since been changed. I think the glacial turning speed of the original Thor might have been slightly annoying for players, but I think the idea was good, so here is what I propose:
If you are familiar with Warhammer 40k, you'll know that the facing of a vehicle is critical in determining its Armor Value. Attacking a Leman Russ from the front is a nigh futile task, whereas if you can get in from the back it's easy pickings.
For most SC2 units, I think this would be impractical. The units are small, it would be hard to keep track of where they are facing and I think it could potentially be rather annoying. Not so with the Thor - it has a very clear, wide front and an equally wide back.
You could easily have it so that its front is armor 8 and its back is armor 4, or even change armor types.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/FrozenArbiter/thorglory.jpg)
Lift-off
This last idea is just something that idly crossed my mind... Since the Thor shares so many characteristics with Terran buildings, why not let it lift-off like one?
It would, perhaps, require a short transformation, and I certainly don't think it should be able to fly very fast or be able to attack while in the air. It would, nonetheless, be an interesting alternative to transporting it with a dropship (considering it's about 3 times as big as one).
Jack of all trades, master of none
What I've tried to get through in my suggestions above is the feeling of being able to customize your Thor. One of the complaints I had was that it's too all-purpose, and it might seem that these ideas would only serve to make it more so, but I believe that all-purpose is fine... Just not all at once and with no price to pay.
Ideally I would see the Thor as a low-count, highly customizable support unit, very potent/versatile but not something you would (under normal circumstances) mass produce. I'm fine with if, say, TvT becomes mass Thor wars - not unlike BC battles in TvT today, but what I don't want to see is it becoming something akin to ultra/ling, where it's used all the time.
So, let me know what you think.
