• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:07
CEST 21:07
KST 04:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202529RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Corsair Pursuit Micro? Pro gamer house photos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread BWCL Season 63 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 800 users

The Thor: Identity Crisis - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 Next All
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17254 Posts
October 21 2009 22:40 GMT
#81
On October 22 2009 07:37 Knee_of_Justice wrote:
I really think that the thor should be scrapped in favor of a more mobile anti-air unit (hopefully not like the goliath).

Maybe a cruise missile battery with an ability like the point defense drone: it can shoot air units, but if its not being used for that, it can convert into a point defense drone and shoot down enemy missiles. Offense vs. Defense.


WH40K comes to the rescue again!

[image loading]


That's certainly something I'd like to see in SC. Mobile flak cannon.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
October 21 2009 22:41 GMT
#82
On October 22 2009 02:03 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote:
I just feel that you can only have 1 true powerhouse unit per race.
Zerg has big brothers
Toss has instawin carriers (reason why I don't like the mothership)
Therefore Terran should either have BCS or the thor. Not both.

Just my 2 cent




Well, that doesnt mean that Terran can just mass a ridiculous force of BC and Thor. Both require huge amounts of resources and food supply. Not only that, but you obviously (if in a high level game) are going to have enough money for both units upgrades. Both can also be countered by a foward thinking player. This is why blizzard has done such a great job with Broodwar over Westwood with C&C. There no massing one unit (or even 2) and walking over someone else.
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-21 22:51:33
October 21 2009 22:48 GMT
#83
On October 22 2009 07:31 FrozenArbiter wrote:

Can we all keep in mind that the Thor isn't supposed to be able to counter carriers? At least not according to what we've been told.

I mean, valkyries don't work very well vs carriers right (tho god knows I have spent many games trying to make them work... success rate was quite low, I am afraid to say, lol)?

Thors currently do a BASE damage of 40 (10 x 4), which also splashes. Factoring in armor (no upgrades), they do 32 (8 x 4). That's quite a lot of damage and they can definitely be used to counter carriers. http://www.sc2pod.com/wiki/Thor
Thors get bonus damage vers. light units, but they do plenty of damage already to all air units. Also, the Thor AA attack (range 10) outranges Carriers (range ~8), along with every other Air unit (not including BC's Yamato Cannon as it's a spell). So yes, Thors in the current build do counter Carriers.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-21 22:54:04
October 21 2009 22:53 GMT
#84
Remember that it's 4x10, and a carrier has 4 base armor, so it's actually 24 damage. But yeah, I dunno, it can all be tweaked.

EDIT: I dunno if a carrier has 4 or 2 armor, it says 2 on sc2pod and 4 in the wiki.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
October 21 2009 22:54 GMT
#85
On October 22 2009 07:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Remember that it's 4x10, and a carrier has 4 base armor, so it's actually 24 damage. But yeah, I dunno, it can all be tweaked.

carrier has 2 base armor, at least according to sc2pod and remember shields take full damage.
Kimera757
Profile Joined August 2007
Canada129 Posts
October 21 2009 22:54 GMT
#86
Carriers have an attack range of 12, according to many sources. I wonder if thors can kill interceptors easily.

On another note, Mechanical Rebirth never required SCV help, as shown in WWI 2008 videos.
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_Wiki ; a complete and referenced database on the StarCraft game series, StarCraft II, Lore, Characters and Gameplay.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
October 21 2009 22:54 GMT
#87
On October 22 2009 07:54 Kimera757 wrote:
Carriers have an attack range of 12, according to many sources. I wonder if thors can kill interceptors easily.

On another note, Mechanical Rebirth never required SCV help, as shown in WWI 2008 videos.

I know, I'm saying it should
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-21 23:05:20
October 21 2009 22:56 GMT
#88
On October 22 2009 07:54 Kimera757 wrote:
Carriers have an attack range of 12, according to many sources. I wonder if thors can kill interceptors easily.

On another note, Mechanical Rebirth never required SCV help, as shown in WWI 2008 videos.

If carriers have range of 12 that's jsut amazing :D

Interceptors currently have 50 shield and 50 hp with no armor. They're also considered light units. So Thors would do 56 damage against them that'd splash (base damage 10 x 4, then bonus of 4 x 4). Two or three Thors would easily wipe out a bunch of interceptors, thus rendering carriers useless. Again, Thors can counter carriers.

Also, if Thors could be built through SCVs not production buildings, then the Terran player could potentially raise an army of 12 Thors very very fast. Of course, economically it wouldn't make much sense but if the situation calls for it, it can be done.
H
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
New Zealand6138 Posts
October 21 2009 23:03 GMT
#89
This was a really good read. I really, really want the Thor to work and I agree with your opinion that it shouldn't be something that necessarily comes out in every game (although I will be trying my hardest to make it so in mine). Great ideas.
[iHs]HCO | のヮの | pachi & plexa ownz | RIP _
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
October 21 2009 23:06 GMT
#90
Even though i don't like theorycrafting and i think that most of theorycrafting on SC2 forum is nonsense (not all, but most, for example this guy with new race - that was pure gold, but i wouldn't call it theorycrafting) this topic is great.
Just prime example how should theorycrafting topic look like. Ideas that aren't stupid/weird/imba/good-only-on-paper. I support every idea here (except maybe liftoff, seems weird but argument with similarity to buildings wouldn't be that stupid, however when lifted Thor definitely shouldn't be able to attack - it would be too much Viking'ish)
251
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1401 Posts
October 21 2009 23:21 GMT
#91
On October 22 2009 04:54 Badjas wrote:
I was mostly irked by the fact that in the BR there were so many thors produced. I think it would be okay if there is a high powered general purpose unit. But using them should be a strategic choice, and not using them should be a viable option. I think the thors should move slower, coupled with costing more supply, in the range of 10-12. I know that sounds like a crazy amount of supply but it should be balanced against its abilities. This would force less thors and in combination with the thors being less mobile it will force more focus on positional play, when using them.

Of course this also makes it more viable for terran to not go thor. They will have a more mobile army with larger number of units. This will be similar to SC1's choice of going MnM.



I agree with this post a lot and is one of my primary concerns. I can't think of a time when Terran wouldn't want Thors and apparently it's "mid-game" (which seems funny to say considering the cost, but given the economic speed SC2 appears to move at, this is of no concern as David Kim appeared to make 2 easily with no budget constraints...then again his macro wasn't perfect). But the Thor doesn't feel like a strategic option to any particular matchup, it seems like an all-purpose ranged-ultralisk killing machine.

And then at the same time, I'm trying to picture myself using this unit and I can't. Anti-light air? What? So it's a 'hard' counter to Mutalisks and Phoenix? Why wouldn't I just go cost effective and have Barracks with Reactors pumping mass marines? Do these units have attacks that are going to devastate a marine ball more than my 1 huge target?

Right now TvT comes to mind where there's lots of strategic choice late game in BW. With the map split and excess resources one player can decide to produce mass BCs and another may choose to counter this with mass Goliath or Wraiths. The Thor seems strong enough to dual role and seems like the only viable late game SC2 TvT option. The HP amount to push front lines, combined with its ability to shoot down any incoming dropships and enough range to threaten BCs, makes TvT look like it will turn into purely a Siege Tank/Thor fight. (this is just speculation)

I don't know how to express this without it being received with mass groans and accusations of just wanting SC1 in 3d, but I feel like the Goliath was a pretty iconic unit to Terran and I'm going to sorely miss it. I know the Viking is some cover-all Goliath replacement but it just incites more doubt in me as to where the Thor fits. The Thor simply looks and reminds of a slow, bulky hero from WC3 that you're going to want to micro heavily in battle to protect, provided you're not 40 minutes into the game and have 12 of them.

I've always been the kind of player (albeit a bad one) to go for the mass smaller units vs the bigger ones (e.g. I'd rather get goliaths vs BCs in TvT) and the Thor...just doesn't look like much fun.
"If you can chill..........then chill."
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
October 21 2009 23:39 GMT
#92
I don't know how you can combine "slow and bulky" with "wc3 hero"... The majority of the WC3 heroes are really agile lol

The only ones that are really slow are like... the Pitlord and the Cryptlord?

Anyhow, that doesn't change anything about the rest of your post, just don't see the need to bring in a wc3 comparision.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
October 21 2009 23:40 GMT
#93
Really great suggestions, I like the idea of being able to kill a Thor mid-construction haha.

For the module idea however, I think it should just transform into three different forms like how a Siege tank transforms, instead of it costing money, and each form (GtG being default, GtA and Bunker/Tanking form being researchable) could have different armor values, attack values, range, and movement speed to make each form unique and balanced.

Blizzard better read this thread haha
Writerptrk
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19135 Posts
October 21 2009 23:48 GMT
#94
Nice article FA, good read and agree with the clueless but cool unitconcept.
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
Appendix
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden979 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-22 00:14:43
October 22 2009 00:04 GMT
#95
I think the Thor is flawed in so many ways.

First of all, lorewise, it is farfetched. Normally, lore isn't that big of a concern to me, but when the supposedly greatest terran scientists sat down and discussed the new alien threats, they could impossibly have concluded that the correct counter to the more mobile protoss armies and the much much more mobile zerg armies were to construct an even bigger and slower terran unit than we have ever seen before. I doubt anyone is that stupid.

Also, if we forget about the first little blunder, the Thor is supposed to be the ultimate terran weapon of war. It is big as hell and it moves slowly. For it to be this ultimate weapon it has to have a great amount of health and armor and a shitload of destructive power, turning the tide of the battle on its own. Anything else wouldn´t fit its visuals and background story. I don't see that being possible in a well balanced game such as starcraft, where the concept is strategical choice making and having a balanced unit mixture.

I also let Thor take credit for the robbing of terran´s identiy. Earlier, tanks were the height of the terran ground army, but now they are mere backup units. I'm not saying whether it is good or bad, but in BW terran held the role of the defensive team, both gameplaywise and lorewise. In BW, the movie was aliens, in SCII its starship troopers. Actually I like the emphasis moving away from the tanks, but not in favor of the Thor.

As for the topic, I like the initiative and it is a good read(even linking to my post) but fixing the Thor feels to me like spicing a burnt steak.

I don´t like much about the thor, and I also think the hellions are just "renewed" vultures. I would like to see some new ideas in the terran arsenal. Units that work well with the tanks, but not necessarily must be accompanied by them in every game. The units should be simple but dynamic, offering different solutions to different situations. For example I think some development of this idea would be interesting:
On October 22 2009 03:15 mucker wrote:
The mobile bunker idea I think would work better as a different vehicle. Maybe ditch the hellion, bring back firebat and have a bunkerbuggy buildable at the factory? Could even hold two units when driving around, transform into static bunker to hold 4 units or something...


EDIT: Haha, I just reread this post. Sorry for the lack of constructive thoughts, but I really dislike Thor. I would rather have them reintroduce the goliath.
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27148 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-22 00:11:11
October 22 2009 00:10 GMT
#96
I don't agree with people who say that scv-built thors will screw up terran macro. The argument seems to be that "you don't need more factories, you can just use scvs and still produce units". Well, if the thor costs 300/300 and 6 supply, you would already have to have terrible macro in order to build more than one or two, keep pumping factory units, and have an extra 30 supply sitting around.

Like this example:
then the Terran player could potentially raise an army of 12 Thors very very fast.
Really? You have 3600/3600 + 72 extra supply sitting aronud? That is nonsense.

I don't like mobile bunkers. I do like customizable thors. It makes a lot of sense. I am indifferent about armour types, but the fact that a thor moves the same as a hellion bothers me greatly. I agree with manitou. Either make it small and massable (essentially into goliaths) or huge and more unique.
ModeratorGodfather
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-22 00:19:48
October 22 2009 00:19 GMT
#97
On October 22 2009 08:39 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I don't know how you can combine "slow and bulky" with "wc3 hero"... The majority of the WC3 heroes are really agile lol

The only ones that are really slow are like... the Pitlord and the Cryptlord?

Anyhow, that doesn't change anything about the rest of your post, just don't see the need to bring in a wc3 comparision.

Pitlord isn't slow- it's relatively fast, actually. Crypt Lord could qualify as slow and bulky, as could the old Tauren Chieftain before he went on a massive diet on some patch that reduced his collision size.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
SouL)R(MizaR
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia111 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-22 00:25:56
October 22 2009 00:25 GMT
#98
Thor:

My idea is simple and in my opinion its the best one. It has a very slow attack speed but the attack is 200 damage but the shots its gives is rocket volley which the takes about 1.5 seconds to reach its target. the other player can micro against it if they are fast enough to move their units similar to a psi storm.

This way it actually adds the micro dimension for both the attacker and defender

Attacker would want to target the middle of the pack so it has he most chance of hitting the oponent

Defender would want to time the shots to know when attack then move.
www.izhere.webs.com Starcraft 2 Clan Website
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
October 22 2009 00:30 GMT
#99
liftoff sounds great.
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Sentient66
Profile Joined July 2009
United States651 Posts
October 22 2009 00:41 GMT
#100
The whole mobile bunker idea seems like it would be a little OP, especially with SCV's being able to repair from the inside, and Ghosts being able to cast.
seNsiX.421
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MindelVK 47
ForJumy 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Barracks 731
Larva 506
Mini 422
Stork 172
Aegong 78
Bonyth 55
scan(afreeca) 26
League of Legends
Grubby2554
Dendi1024
Counter-Strike
fl0m1847
byalli253
Foxcn245
oskar244
Stewie2K130
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu463
Khaldor312
Other Games
summit1g4813
FrodaN1500
ceh91333
Hui .261
C9.Mang0198
ToD166
Trikslyr52
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta71
• LUISG 31
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 23
• Michael_bg 10
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3055
• masondota21469
• WagamamaTV594
League of Legends
• Nemesis4906
• TFBlade1092
Other Games
• imaqtpie1308
• Shiphtur522
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
14h 54m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 14h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.