EPTThe Thor: Identity Crisis - Page 4
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
Waves and waves of zerglings would be churned into pulp as the Thor, in true terran slow-push style, grinded up to zerg ramp. Behind it would be floating barracks/factories/command centers (to protect production vs mobile counterattacks). And the nearby protected seige tanks would roll to a halt, siege up, and proceed to shell the sunken line. And at the same time the CC would land and take over Zerg's natural right under their nose. It would produce such a BRACE FOR EPIC feeling watching zerg launch everything at it in desperation. Of course, i dont know how practical that is in balance, but its just a wet dream of mine. EDIT: oh and the Thor should be progressively more IN FLAMES as it reaches closer to red HP. Nothing like a flaming, shooting, bombing, blasting inevitable doom. And if/when it explodes the audience would go apeshit, and the terran supporters should feel their liver on their toes. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Concerning customization, doesn't anyone remember that the BC already has nearly that exact same thing? You know, you can pick a shield, AoE missiles, or Yamato Cannon? Honestly, it had COMPLETELY slipped my mind >_< Indeed, though at first I balked at the idea of the Thor as a melee unit, I realized that as long as you put some sick flamethrowers on (or something like that) and kept it slightly less mobile than an ultralisk than Thors could make fairly heavy metal style viable by shielding tanks due to their sheer size Sounds good. | ||
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Lysis
United States147 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
Battlecruisers could upgrade either Yamatoe or Defensive matrix. | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
A third form more tank-like would be nice that eschews all ranged damage for more armor/or dmatrix, and a very slow melee range AoE with some sort of effect vs. light units such as 1 second stun. Slow, like siege mode slow so it's not like you can totally lock down a light unit army. It would be useful situationally vs. endgame cracklings or MnM. I think it would be awesome and fear-inspiring to see an animation of maybe a giant hammer pounding the ground every 3-4 seconds. ^^ also a great counter mid-late game for zealots with charge and it forces the opponent to target the Thor because no one wants to get stunned. It would also encourage the terran player to send more scv's with his push to repair the tanking thor. I also like the idea that if in AtA mode, it can fire unidirectionally, and throw in that you can fire while moving, esp. if you are giving up all GtG attacks for the one ability. | ||
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Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
On October 22 2009 02:22 da_head wrote: holy shit. i agree 100% with everything you said. someone should DEFINITELY bring this to blizzard's attn. the sc2 team lurks here all the time man | ||
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Equaoh
Canada427 Posts
The thor being a 'building' is conceptually great - a terran push where thors are built out on the field as reinforcements sounds neat. The balance issues with walling off + teching thors could be a problem, though - if you cant muta harass before one or two thors come out... though this might be remedied by the rear armor idea and turning speed - which would also really make positioning and flanking important in dealing with thor armies moving out (banelings, blink?). I think the bunker idea would be imbalanced, though, even if like a normal bunker you cant cast/repair from inside. 4 marauders shooting the stuff behind the thor? Also, I hope TvTs don't turn into huge Thor-fests | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Example Scenario: terran player scouts protoss massing stargates. factories are busy making tanks? no problem, build them Thors using scvs pulled off mineral line. after you destroyed the protoss carrier fleet with Thors, the Terran player sees Protoss making really fast switch to zealot/goon? No problem, transform all the Thors into GtG mode or seige mode or w/e. Thor and the tanks that were being pumped out of the factories earlier eat up that ground army. Oh wait, the Protoss somehow still has resources and switches to air again? No problem! Just turn Thors back to AtA and annihilate that carrier fleet one more time. Repeat. See the potential abuse here? By allowing SCVs to just build Thors in the field you free up the factories to continue pumping Tanks/Hellions, which is pretty imba in itself (dont' forget about the Terran Reactors!). Add to that a Thor ability to transform at will make the Thor a true monster. Don't get me wrong, I love the Thor idea, it's just all those little abilities will make it very imba. | ||
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
And yes, the Thor should definitely be produced from the factory or all these ideas are trash. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 22 2009 02:13 Musoeun wrote: While you've got a point, I'd like to point something out: Zerg has ultras - but also has guardians. They're just too weak to be real ultimates. Protoss has carriers - but also has arbiters which are equally game-breaking, but distinctly casters rather than attackers and so fit in just nicely. Now, Terran has BCs - but also has nukes. Nukes are just too expensive to be a real ultimate weapon. And hey, you don't even see BCs in TvP. Really Terran doesn't have a powerhouse unit at all except in TvT. I'm not sure what that says about the Thor's viability as a concept - clearly there's a niche the Terrans just don't have filled at the moment in SC:BW, but do they really need it? - but I think it's worth noting. You're comparing Guadians to the ultimate units of each race? That's like... "Terran has BCs. But also has Siege Tanks", although tanks are probably even more ultimate than guardians, still. And there's been quite a few instances where BCs have been used vs Z. | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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Wire
United States494 Posts
3 scvs repairing a supply depot can fend off 6 speedlings (correct me if I'm wrong). Now given that a bunker holds 4 if each thor carries 4 scvs and say there are 3 thors charging the front line...with defense matrix...that's kind of unbreakable. Especially considering if you ever do get 3 thors like that you'd probably have a decent sized army composed of other units as well. As far as modules, I really think that swapping specs need to cost more than what you seemed to propose. from a swift read i can see you projecting the cost to be like 50/50 or say 100/50 for ground and 50/100 for air (again correct here if I'm mistaken). In all honesty I'd like to see better adaptation over switching what your thor's armed with. a proper sc2 game i feel at the moment should have about maybe 5 thors max out at once at late game, and keeping the modules cheap might increase turtling as well. As far as armor I'm not sure how I feel about that. It does seem like a good idea, especially since I can totally see a cinematic of a group of zerglings running up the back of a thor and ripping all of its wires out from the back and then the thor exploding. but i digress. Overall in the current state thors should be fixed so that its not overly produced. I do think if they toned it down a bit (350 hp, 25 atk?) and redid the size then an thor vs ultralisk army battle would be very entertaining to watch. on a side not though, notice the size of the ultralisks now kind of match the size of thors. they're just more boxy where the thor is more rectangular. wonder if blizzard is trying to get the units to match up? | ||
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MrRey
183 Posts
Something similar to that mobile bunker idea emerged in WC3. When back during the beta, riflemen could enter into siege machines, but it really turned out to be completly retarded. It's just too strong of a tactic for something that require basically no skill at all. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
Conversely, if you are defending with the thor, either your thor dies and your army is destroyed anyways or your thor lives/is wrecked after you just dominated their forces so it wouldn't matter much if it had lived or died. Something along those lines. If someone can find the official post (probably a Karune post I believe or a panel interview), that would be a lot better than me trying to recollect what they said a few months back. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17254 Posts
On October 21 2009 07:21 Manit0u wrote: My thoughts on Thor: 1. Either make it smaller and massable. ![[image loading]](http://www.geocities.com/battyboy20012000/newsarchive_files/image025.jpg) 2. Or bigger and more unique. ![[image loading]](http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/3/27/24764_md-Apocalypse,%20Titan,%20Warhammer%2040,000,%20Warlord.jpg) | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 22 2009 07:03 MrRey wrote: Exept the "Mobile Bunker" idea, that is crap, everything is damn brillant. Something similar to that mobile bunker idea emerged in WC3. When back during the beta, riflemen could enter into siege machines, but it really turned out to be completly retarded. It's just too strong of a tactic for something that require basically no skill at all. Ah it's good you brought that up, I didn't know the Siege Engine had ever been able to have the transported units fire from it =] On October 22 2009 06:32 Ryuu314 wrote: although allowing it to transform would be cool, that and the scv field building are two things i really don't think should be implemented. the balance issues regarding those two are enormous. Example Scenario: terran player scouts protoss massing stargates. factories are busy making tanks? no problem, build them Thors using scvs pulled off mineral line. after you destroyed the protoss carrier fleet with Thors, the Terran player sees Protoss making really fast switch to zealot/goon? No problem, transform all the Thors into GtG mode or seige mode or w/e. Thor and the tanks that were being pumped out of the factories earlier eat up that ground army. Oh wait, the Protoss somehow still has resources and switches to air again? No problem! Just turn Thors back to AtA and annihilate that carrier fleet one more time. Repeat. See the potential abuse here? By allowing SCVs to just build Thors in the field you free up the factories to continue pumping Tanks/Hellions, which is pretty imba in itself (dont' forget about the Terran Reactors!). Add to that a Thor ability to transform at will make the Thor a true monster. Don't get me wrong, I love the Thor idea, it's just all those little abilities will make it very imba. Can we all keep in mind that the Thor isn't supposed to be able to counter carriers? At least not according to what we've been told. I mean, valkyries don't work very well vs carriers right (tho god knows I have spent many games trying to make them work... success rate was quite low, I am afraid to say, lol)? Wreckage is meaningless in SC, a extremely high damage per second RTS game. Units and engagements lasts seconds before one side is destroyed. Unless the wreckage has a lot more hp than the actual unit, it would too be destroyed very quickly during/after battle. The read effect of the mechanic is to block zealots and zerglings for a few split seconds before they could destroy/bypass that and push onto the next target, or that terran gets to recover some units after winning a battle. (which just means the winner wins more, and the game ends faster) I forgot to address this - I think it's a good point, and might be enough to convince me the idea is just downright not very good. | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
Just imagine a proxy Thor or something too, that'd be pretty interesting strategically. The tech tree might have to be adjusted for this to be balanced but I think this, if anything, should be a defining feature of the Thor. | ||
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Knee_of_Justice
United States388 Posts
To be honest, I really feel like the Thor needs to turn into primarily a melee unit to become a point-man, which is the main thing missing from the terran arsenal I think, like Zealots and Ultralisks. There is something to say for this idea. I mean, give it a giant hammer of destiny (mijolnir anyone?) and just send it to the front lines to smash shit into little pancakes. "Terratron, Terrorize!" I really think that the thor should be scrapped in favor of a more mobile anti-air unit (hopefully not like the goliath). Maybe a cruise missile battery with an ability like the point defense drone: it can shoot air units, but if its not being used for that, it can convert into a point defense drone and shoot down enemy missiles. Offense vs. Defense. I was always a firm believer (don't take out the torches and pitchforks, please!) that the Siege Tank should be taken out of the game, and replaced with the Thor. It's model screams ass-kicking, so why can't it have that role? In SC1 tanks took 2 supply. In Starcraft 2, they take up 3 supply. Blizzard said themselves they beefed up the tank and made it cost more food, so the battlefield will see less of them. Why not take it a step further but replace the CrucioST with the Thor? Another interesting post that got me thinking. What if the siege tank was replaced with a tanking tank (surprise surprise!). Tanks initially started out as the ones that took damage, so why not give them that role? Then the thor could become the base assault unit that comes behind the meatshield and does the real damage, especially with the 250mm cannons. The thor would be big, scary and powerful, but a glass cannon in some way that blizzard would have to decide. And if people want a constructable thor, why not do this: make an SCV "activate" a factory. The factory would then be "building" the thor (ie: producing materials that will go into the thor). That way, it mimics the assembly line mentality. While the factory is in the active state, only then can you build a thor. If you cancel the assembly line, your thor will stop being built. If you kill the SCV, the factory continues to be out of commission (unless you tell it to stop too). Review: 1) SCV goes to factory and "activates" it > while in this state, factory cannot do anything else. 2) 1 thor can now be built. If you want 5 thors, you need 5 factories. 3) SCV goes to build the thor. If you cancel the factory's activation, the thor cannot continue to be built 4) if the SCV cancels construction or doesnt construct the thor, the factory will still continue to be unable to produce other things unless the player tells it to stop. 5) when the thor is built, the factory can do stuff again (comes back online autmatically) Maybe too complicated? | ||
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