EPTVery action packed, definiately was fun to watch but things that seemed iffy were the high templar movement animations and the ghost's hp being too high or the medivac healing it too fast. Thors seemed like they should have been more useful and its kind of weird that they are anti air units, THEY HAVE HUGE FUCKING CANNONS.
New Battle Report (10/19/2009) - Page 5
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Whiplash
United States2929 Posts
Very action packed, definiately was fun to watch but things that seemed iffy were the high templar movement animations and the ghost's hp being too high or the medivac healing it too fast. Thors seemed like they should have been more useful and its kind of weird that they are anti air units, THEY HAVE HUGE FUCKING CANNONS. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
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SiDX
New Zealand1975 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
I like everything, the only think I disliked were the army battles. It really felt like just pure attack-ground. Think of an army vs army battle in SC1 TvP and now watch TvP armies clashing in that battle report... Yea it does look like the players had to do nothing in SC2.... No mine/sieging, no shuttle bombs, positioning didn't look nearly as important, etc. Thors look big and clumsy... are they nothing but robot ultralisks?  Imitate High Templar movement animation from SC1, now! I'll never like the Hellion, I think. It's a Command & Conquer unit. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
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PyroDog
United States59 Posts
I play toss. And I'm going to play toss in SC2. And I love the storm animation... it's just so badass. But it looks IMPOSSIBLE to dodge. I dunno why people are excited by this. The storms come down so fast for such a short duration, that the opponent really has no chance to dodge it adequately. There's no skill when it comes to storming now - either in dodging it or casting it. Just target the biggest clump of units for an instant-hit. I feel this removes a lot of skill when it comes to storms. My other concern are the nukes, the other thing people are excited about. I dunno, they scream imba. I have no idea how many silos David Kim had, and how much his unit production was reduced in order to accomodate all those nukes. Maybe it is balanced. But from my perspective, he dropped nuke... after nuke... after nuke... in like two minutes. Who cares if the damage has been decreased, they can still rape a wide area of effect, making them perfect to rape workers and low tier units, and severely damage buildings and high-tier ones. He just built nukes uber-fast. Also... it seems like the duration to cast a nuke has been decreased? I didn't feel there was adequate time to hunt down a ghost and kill it - The protoss player needs to locate where the nuke is being cast, bring an observer to the right location, and then blink in stalkers or other units, while trying to kill the ghost asap while it's being healed by a medivac. This can be similar to SC1, except it feels like you have LESS time to do it. Does someone know the casting time for nukes in SC2? It feels less than in SC1, making it extremely deadly. Especially since you can build nukes now very quickly, and then drop them quickly. Yes yes it's badass, but it seems overpowered. They quickly turned the tide - the match felt fairly even until the nukes just totally raped the toss player. Weird that reapers can move to high ground without a spotter, but that Stalkers can't blink to high ground unless they have one. Plus blink costs energy, doesn't it? Hellions look retarded. They're like weird off-road cars. Not exciting at all. I thought the Thors were fine. Siege tanks look like they have an increased rate of fire, as well as the ability to be picked up in siege mode? Or did I see that wrong? It makes for some interesting harassment, I suppose. Most unit animations looked nice. I was worried about not being able to tell what unit is what in SC2 (cause I thought they looked too similar), but I'm not so worried now. These are all minor details though. My two big concerns are: Storm seems to lower skill levels Nukes build outrageously fast and seem to drop fast. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On October 20 2009 00:59 zazen wrote: Great BR, although BR 3 was even more impressive in my opinion. I like everything, the only think I disliked were the army battles. It really felt like just pure attack-ground. Think of an army vs army battle in SC1 TvP and now watch TvP armies clashing in that battle report... Yea it does look like the players had to do nothing in SC2.... No mine/sieging, no shuttle bombs, positioning didn't look nearly as important, etc. Thors look big and clumsy... are they nothing but robot ultralisks? Imitate High Templar movement animation from SC1, now! I'll never like the Hellion, I think. It's a Command & Conquer unit. I agree with pretty much everything you said, with the small caveat that I guess we should wait for the game to be released before judging how a matchup is going to play. But I agree, from what we saw, battles do look a little dull. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17727 Posts
My thoughts: Nukes - a bit too low cooldown. I don't mind them being re-usable more often than in BW, but not every 5 seconds... Hellions - somehow I still think that grenade launcher > flame thrower. Thors - they look odd when moving (especially turning) in a clump of units. Looks like they're trying to cut/move around some invisible corners. Protoss didn't use a single Immortal  I want to see Immos so bad... | ||
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Infectum
United States19 Posts
On October 20 2009 01:15 Manit0u wrote: Nice game. My thoughts: Nukes - a bit too low cooldown. I don't mind them being re-usable more often than in BW, but not every 5 seconds... Hellions - somehow I still think that grenade launcher > flame thrower. Thors - they look odd when moving (especially turning) in a clump of units. Looks like they're trying to cut/move around some invisible corners. Protoss didn't use a single Immortal I want to see Immos so bad... I thought the same thing about nukes, but i think he may have had more then 1 silo(or whatever its called now). I also thought thors were supposed to be made by scvs? It looked like they we just produced normally from factories. | ||
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numberThirtyOne
United States294 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On October 20 2009 01:15 Manit0u wrote: Nice game. My thoughts: Nukes - a bit too low cooldown. I don't mind them being re-usable more often than in BW, but not every 5 seconds... Hellions - somehow I still think that grenade launcher > flame thrower. Thors - they look odd when moving (especially turning) in a clump of units. Looks like they're trying to cut/move around some invisible corners. Protoss didn't use a single Immortal I want to see Immos so bad... You can see Immortals in action in BR #3. | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
As for immortals i believe they were moved to robotics facility (?) which could render them not as useful since you won't have production capabilities without committing fully to immortals. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On October 20 2009 01:19 Infectum wrote: I also thought thors were supposed to be made by scvs? It looked like they we just produced normally from factories. It was like that at one point. It turned out to be imbalanced and was scrapped ("La dee da, here I have my mass marauder force, with 6 barracks and one factory... OMG it's mass carriers! I need anti-air! Who needs factories- I'll just build 6 Thors right away!"). Thors are now produced in Factories. | ||
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Gryffindor_us
United States5606 Posts
The macro seemed completely off from my experience with the game. The massive amount of minerals you accrue off of only two base obelisk(appears the P didn't get obelisk immediately at expo which is something I did every time since I first used the obelisk) allows you to pump continuously off of nearly 10 gates and I counted only 8 gates off 3-4 base. I usually started with a 1 gate obelisk build that went into a cyber/twilight council fast expo and used the stalkers I made to transition into zeal/ht/stalker. The sheer amount of minerals you have allows you to make a huge amount of zealots that overwhelm anything left over after PSI-storm. Also, he made far too many stalkers (stalkers are good but he needed more zeals because they're extremely powerful with the way auto-surround works and charge upgrade) considering kim's unit choice especially near the end. Immortals would have been more prudent than colossi despite how difficult they are to obtain. With my limited experience the ideal unit combo against Kim would have been Zeal/Stalker/HT/Archon (because of the new selection size units tend to bunch together as you saw which makes it easier for splash damage units to excel) with a few immortals (immortals are not easy to get and not extremely viable but I would have suggested them over colossi at that point since you would already have enough splash from HT / Archon and colossi die awfully fast, they are not reavers; they are much more expensive too at 345/200 I think) The battle at 13:50 - ~14:08 is what should have happened throughout the game but the protoss should have had even more by that point. To me Zeal/HT was stronger than Zeal/Stalker. Off of two base I didn't have enough gas to go Stalker/HT but Lee was going on 4 bases (he had the potential to have 8 gas) so there was no reason for him not to have plenty of HT at all times. Even given the seemingly gas starved nature of SC2 you should be able to alleviate some of that with the number of zealots you can make to stall/fight while you get more gas. In my games it usually ended up with me having a 12:6:3 ratio of Zeal/Stalker/HT off a max of 3 bases(I don't think I ever had a game that got to 4 bases simultaneously). The key was to get storms off before the Terran EMPed your HTs and army. Maybe my criticism of the protoss is unrealistic (and it is a battle report) but I feel he did not macro to the full potential of 2 base obelisk protoss. Also, you can see high mineral counts several times throughout the game. Finally, I could understand the argument that he was being constantly harassed by helions/reapers/tanks/ghosts but for the helions and reapers a cannon or two would have completely stopped that and given the sheer amount of minerals you'd have you could easily afford to equip that at all of your bases. Some other comments: Two thor can level a nexus in seconds with barrage. I personally did not use the Thor as much as Kim did mainly because it felt like it limited my mobility. I played around with nullifiers hallucination which was improved from SC because it allows you to hallucinate any protoss unit of your choice (meaning you don't have to have a carrier to hallucinate a carrier). This would allow for some awesome mind games and of course I utterly regret that I didn't play around with more builds that involved hallucination in the days after when my mind was going nuts with theorycrafting and such. Also, I find it interesting that the ghost seemed so powerful in conjunction with the medivac. When I played bionic I felt that the medivac was vastly inferior in healing power to two medics. I would sometimes have 3 medivacs and it just didn't feel the same as 6 medics at all. That could be because of how the other races were tweaked though. I wish they would showcase the banshee and void ray! The banshee is ridiculous in TvT. I liked to go tank/banshee (+ viking if they went viking to counter). I could easily see the banshee being used in TvP. The void ray would have probably stopped the ghost too given the amount of damage it does and that's just a basic stargate unit. The game is fun as hell. Edit: Also at first I didn't like the way Psi-Storm looked while playing since it obfuscated my ability to see the units under it. It's beautiful from a spectator point of view but it seemed annoying to me when I played it. | ||
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AeTheReal
United States108 Posts
Those high templars look funny to me too. Not leaning in the direction they're going at all makes them look like floating statues. I think the afterimages should be added back in too if they aren't already. It gives them a much more mystical look. | ||
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pR0gR4m3R
Spain1446 Posts
On October 19 2009 22:06 Kennigit wrote: Ahhh yeah this was the game they showed us at fan site summit. Really cool :D HAHAHAHA as soon as I saw the first 5 secs, I knew I had a DEJA VU BTW hi Kennigit  .. remember our talk with David Kim?? | ||
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