|
On March 02 2013 23:01 Zelniq wrote:
Dancing is a weird reward.. Who really uses dances in real games except to act like an ass to their opponent. It would be better if after your opponent leaves the game, your units automatically dance or something. Or perhaps if your units are idle for long enough, they randomly start dancing heh. Of course they'd have to fix it so the dancing wouldn't interfere with their responsiveness when action is needed.
It's exactly this attitude that is holding the game back from expanding it's audience and being more fun (and profitable)!
Zelniq is absolutely right — from a pro perspective. Zelniq is literally in the 97-98th percentile of players that sees no value and has no need for dances.
Now, for the millions and millions of potential customers that just might not become a grandmasters, masters, or even a diamond league players, dancing is a cool add-on feature. Hell, customers might even be willing to pay extra for cool and unique animations.
|
On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid.
If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game.
Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years?
|
Exactly. The idea is to give you some sort of reward if you keep playing. That's the same idea why games like mafia or farmville are so popular. They are nothing but just numbers moving around. They make you do something every now and then and give you reward every now and then. Just like how slot machine works.
Though I want to say I will never sit for hours to grind game after game after game to get these award. Then again, I did that for a few times at WOL LOL.
We like achievements. Even if it ain't just about improving skills or climbing the ladder or winning. We still enjoy the feeling when we get something for it.
These awards means nothing anyways.....it doesn't make me play better or make my race stronger....it is all look and feel.
Remind me of what Napoleon said...A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:
If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game.
Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years?
|
On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years?
Couldn't something similar to that be implemented through a custom map?
|
On March 08 2013 12:41 Proof. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years? Couldn't something similar to that be implemented through a custom map?
Sure, but I don't know if it would offer enough depth and variety.
Just to clarify, I'm not saying there should be any crossover between a fun, 'sandbox' ladder, and a real ladder suitable for esports. It's just that Blizzard is in the best position to implement and integrate meaningful bonus features.
Imagine if by playing on 'The Pro Ladder' you could earn XP you can uses to unlock items on 'The Fun Ladder' or the single-player campaign. Hey, if you wanted to provide incentive to play The Pro Ladder maybe the XP is worth more on that ladder. Maybe some items like skins and animations cross over from one Ladder to another, but others (like units) obviously don't.
There's a million ways to make SC2 more fun, IF you're able to separate 'the real game' from the fun one.
|
On March 08 2013 12:40 BigRedDog wrote:Exactly. The idea is to give you some sort of reward if you keep playing. That's the same idea why games like mafia or farmville are so popular. They are nothing but just numbers moving around. They make you do something every now and then and give you reward every now and then. Just like how slot machine works. Though I want to say I will never sit for hours to grind game after game after game to get these award. Then again, I did that for a few times at WOL LOL. We like achievements. Even if it ain't just about improving skills or climbing the ladder or winning. We still enjoy the feeling when we get something for it. These awards means nothing anyways.....it doesn't make me play better or make my race stronger....it is all look and feel. Remind me of what Napoleon said... A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:
If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game.
Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years?
Oh man, imagine a gambling mechanic introduced in SC2? Like if you could bet XP on yourself or other players on the outcome of the game?
So many more players would be on Battle.net JUST to gamble.
|
On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years?
Exchanging XP for currency and then turning in said currency in for more minerals and gas at the start of a match would ruin the game because people who play the game for hours and hours on end would have a clear advantage over those who don't.
If Blizzard should do something then it cannot affect the game/gameplay. Look at LoL. The things that they have and release is purely cosmetic unless you want to count hero's and it doesn't affect the gameplay.
Portraits, new skins, dances, etc, is more then enough to keep people interested. The problem that arises is that if Blizzard doesn't keep adding new skins, dances, portraits, then yes people can lose interest. Now, I can see exchanging xp for currency to get new skins work. Anything that affects the gameplay cannot.
|
On March 08 2013 12:55 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years? Exchanging XP for currency and then turning in said currency in for more minerals and gas at the start of a match would ruin the game because people who play the game for hours and hours on end would have a clear advantage over those who don't. If Blizzard should do something then it cannot affect the game/gameplay. Look at LoL. The things that they have and release is purely cosmetic unless you want to count hero's and it doesn't affect the gameplay. Portraits, new skins, dances, etc, is more then enough to keep people interested. The problem that arises is that if Blizzard doesn't keep adding new skins, dances, portraits, then yes people can lose interest. Now, I can see exchanging xp for currency to get new skins work. Anything that affects the gameplay cannot.
Trading XP for minerals is fucking broken. That's the point.
Think about it: the current ladder is really good at measuring and rewarding merit. The best players rise up the ladder and win.
But the current ladder is HORRIBLE at rewarding participation. It's absolutely radioactive to new or young players, or even average gamers that want to play for funsies.
I would never introduce a currency for The Pro Ladder, but for a separate ladder? Why not? If a poor noob loses six or seven games in a row, give him the power to trade in his crappy experience for a free win.
|
On March 08 2013 13:01 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:55 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years? Exchanging XP for currency and then turning in said currency in for more minerals and gas at the start of a match would ruin the game because people who play the game for hours and hours on end would have a clear advantage over those who don't. If Blizzard should do something then it cannot affect the game/gameplay. Look at LoL. The things that they have and release is purely cosmetic unless you want to count hero's and it doesn't affect the gameplay. Portraits, new skins, dances, etc, is more then enough to keep people interested. The problem that arises is that if Blizzard doesn't keep adding new skins, dances, portraits, then yes people can lose interest. Now, I can see exchanging xp for currency to get new skins work. Anything that affects the gameplay cannot. Trading XP for minerals is fucking broken. That's the point. Think about it: the current ladder is really good at measuring and rewarding merit. The best players rise up the ladder and win. But the current ladder is HORRIBLE at rewarding participation. It's absolutely radioactive to new or young players, or even average gamers that want to play for funsies. I would never introduce a currency for The Pro Ladder, but for a separate ladder? Why not? If a poor noob loses six or seven games in a row, give him the power to trade in his crappy experience for a free win.
Well, I think thats why Blizzard put in Unranked play so people that are afraid to ladder or for new or young people could play for fun and not fear of losing more then just a game. But it might not be enough but . . yeah
|
I like unrank mode. I use it to work on my games. Practice specific build. Or use it to play with race i am not familair with.
I like the little badgets, awrads, profiles, dances and unit skins.
For those who are laddering seriously, that stuff doesn't matter. But for majority of the crowd, it is fun. It is a nice little touch.
|
|
|
On March 08 2013 13:01 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 12:55 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years? Exchanging XP for currency and then turning in said currency in for more minerals and gas at the start of a match would ruin the game because people who play the game for hours and hours on end would have a clear advantage over those who don't. If Blizzard should do something then it cannot affect the game/gameplay. Look at LoL. The things that they have and release is purely cosmetic unless you want to count hero's and it doesn't affect the gameplay. Portraits, new skins, dances, etc, is more then enough to keep people interested. The problem that arises is that if Blizzard doesn't keep adding new skins, dances, portraits, then yes people can lose interest. Now, I can see exchanging xp for currency to get new skins work. Anything that affects the gameplay cannot. Trading XP for minerals is fucking broken. That's the point. Think about it: the current ladder is really good at measuring and rewarding merit. The best players rise up the ladder and win. But the current ladder is HORRIBLE at rewarding participation. It's absolutely radioactive to new or young players, or even average gamers that want to play for funsies. I would never introduce a currency for The Pro Ladder, but for a separate ladder? Why not? If a poor noob loses six or seven games in a row, give him the power to trade in his crappy experience for a free win.
So you want to give the carebears something? At the cost of players who are actually trying to become better? Sorry, that's a retarded idea. You should never give something that gives a statistical advantage in an RTS game. I could just lose a billion games in a row and then get extra minerals at the start of my next 50 games and 6 pool instantaneously and reach masters league. Obviously exaggerated but it displays how broken your idea is. You shouldn't be rewarded for losing. That's purpose defeating. It removes the goal all together.
|
Cool rewards, nice enough. One stupid question though: I am forced to see the modified units from my opponent or is the different skin only visible from his perspective?
|
United Kingdom14103 Posts
I'm actually really looking forward to the new levels now :3
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Updated picture, now with better images of unit skins
|
On March 08 2013 15:58 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 13:01 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:55 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:25 Defacer wrote:On March 08 2013 12:22 Disengaged wrote:On March 08 2013 12:12 Defacer wrote:
A much stronger loop would be to turn XP into currency, and allow players to trade in XP for minerals/gas at the start of the next game, unlock access to maps, or earn new units or hero characters that you can use in 1v1 or team games. It could exist on a separate ladder, or what I like to call my Imaginary Wood League.
I'm sorry but that is pretty stupid. If you knew anything about game development, you would know that it's not. It basically a way of turning the SC2 ladder experience into something closer to WoW, improving the stickiness of the product and given new users reason to continue to playing the game. Most people aren't even capable of playing at a Diamond level, and never will no matter how hard they try. Ask yourself, how do you keep those players interested and addicted to the game for the next five years? Exchanging XP for currency and then turning in said currency in for more minerals and gas at the start of a match would ruin the game because people who play the game for hours and hours on end would have a clear advantage over those who don't. If Blizzard should do something then it cannot affect the game/gameplay. Look at LoL. The things that they have and release is purely cosmetic unless you want to count hero's and it doesn't affect the gameplay. Portraits, new skins, dances, etc, is more then enough to keep people interested. The problem that arises is that if Blizzard doesn't keep adding new skins, dances, portraits, then yes people can lose interest. Now, I can see exchanging xp for currency to get new skins work. Anything that affects the gameplay cannot. Trading XP for minerals is fucking broken. That's the point. Think about it: the current ladder is really good at measuring and rewarding merit. The best players rise up the ladder and win. But the current ladder is HORRIBLE at rewarding participation. It's absolutely radioactive to new or young players, or even average gamers that want to play for funsies. I would never introduce a currency for The Pro Ladder, but for a separate ladder? Why not? If a poor noob loses six or seven games in a row, give him the power to trade in his crappy experience for a free win. So you want to give the carebears something? At the cost of players who are actually trying to become better? Sorry, that's a retarded idea. You should never give something that gives a statistical advantage in an RTS game. I could just lose a billion games in a row and then get extra minerals at the start of my next 50 games and 6 pool instantaneously and reach masters league. Obviously exaggerated but it displays how broken your idea is. You shouldn't be rewarded for losing. That's purpose defeating. It removes the goal all together.
Again, this is exactly the attitude that is hurting the growth of SC2's popularity, the community, and esports.
Read my posts. I'm suggesting the 'Pro' Ladder and the 'Fun' Ladder should be two separate things.
One should be a ladder with a tightly balanced game, that rewards skill with wins, spectators and recognition.
The other should be ladder with awards and achievements outside of winning the game.
Have you ever gone to the gym and watched guys play pick up basketball? They're competitive, but they're also trying to have fun. They're not calling every foul or travel. They're not trying to become pro's. They switch players whenever the game is getting out of hand, talk shit, throw behind the back passes out of bounds, and all go out to beer afterwards together— even the losers!
The SC2 Community is so diehard about e-sports they are actually forgetting what makes someone want to play a game for fun.
|
United States744 Posts
I think #8 terran might be a hellbat
|
United States7166 Posts
On March 08 2013 12:22 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 23:01 Zelniq wrote:
Dancing is a weird reward.. Who really uses dances in real games except to act like an ass to their opponent. It would be better if after your opponent leaves the game, your units automatically dance or something. Or perhaps if your units are idle for long enough, they randomly start dancing heh. Of course they'd have to fix it so the dancing wouldn't interfere with their responsiveness when action is needed. It's exactly this attitude that is holding the game back from expanding it's audience and being more fun (and profitable)! Zelniq is absolutely right — from a pro perspective. Zelniq is literally in the 97-98th percentile of players that sees no value and has no need for dances. Now, for the millions and millions of potential customers that just might not become a grandmasters, masters, or even a diamond league players, dancing is a cool add-on feature. Hell, customers might even be willing to pay extra for cool and unique animations.
Didn't say that. Just saying it would be better if there was some other way you'd see the dances except having to type /dance. Even for casual players, I imagine the majority of the players would mostly try out the dances after they unlock them, and in some rare occasions do more /dance, but otherwise seems unlikely it'd be a semi-regular thing they'd type in. I guess when they get bored at times midgame they may try it..still think it would be better if they tried something like I suggested in that post. I like the long-idle unit having a chance to dance, but not effect gameplay/responsiveness. And an option to disable it.
|
I think those unit skins are awesome. I just wish they had more if them for other units.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Just add hotkey command "Dance" or add button on the UI with it's own hotkey, somewhere under minimap buttons.
For example I've created macros "press enter - write /dance - press enter". Blizzards disallows macroses which are affecting gameplay, but /dance writing does not affects gameplay so it's okay
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
