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On February 11 2013 13:51 Zelniq wrote:
that's not my experience with this patch, Lingblingbling. it seems like spores are very effective at shutting down muta harass. and when your muta ball gets big enough to 1 shot spores, it's so late that he's got a bunch of hydra/infestor and you'll just get fungaled if you try that
Yeah I had a theory before patch that 2 spores at each base should screw the muta timings long enough to get hydras for shutting down the Hydras, especially if you use the queens for healing. By the time they have enough Mutas, Hydras have a significant upgrade lead on the Mutas, and both range/speed Hydras are finished.
Seems to be working fairly well so far, although I only ran in to 3 or so ZvZ at this point.
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Wonder if blizzard wants to do something with tempest, or they consider useless broodlords in ZvP a normal thing.
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On February 11 2013 16:08 Alpina wrote:
Wonder if blizzard wants to do something with tempest, or they consider useless broodlords in ZvP a normal thing.
I dunno what they're trying to do with the Tempest. It started as a megascout that fired ball lightning, but then they turned it into a siege unit that slowly wore down an enemy from an absurd range. Thing is, Protoss already had a sort-of indirect-fire unit that honestly was much better designed and engaging, so it's just bleh.
They'll probably ignore the broodlord / battlecruiser problem until the 1.1 or something. They're more likely to screw with oracles again, since David and friends think we're just not using our heads when it comes to fighting skytoss.
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I think the next change will say that turrets will do bonus damage to medivacs with more than one hellbat in it....
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Anyone else think that with the addition of tempests, they could try removing energy bars from BCs?
All it really does is give BCs another hard counter in TvP, whereas the tempest is probably already the best counter for them in the game. They might actually have a place in the match-up this way as a surprise tech switch whereas maxed BC armies would still get owned by tempests.
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On February 11 2013 20:26 iRon aka bananajuice wrote:
I think the next change will say that turrets will do bonus damage to medivacs with more than one hellbat in it....
Slippery slope.
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On February 11 2013 16:08 Alpina wrote:
Wonder if blizzard wants to do something with tempest, or they consider useless broodlords in ZvP a normal thing.
funny i still see gm and hig hmaster play broodlords VERY successfull ...
for some zergs it seems to hard to ONLY build like 5-6 of them having them as SUPER STRONG support and not mass 20 and have a freewin
so: broodlords are totaly fine even vs tempest if you have a nice combo etc ... stop plz saying stuff you guys not really tested -.- so frustrating read all zergs cry because there mass 1-2 units a move win not work anymore ...
zergs now in hots really successfull so far but still alot zergs cry vs skytoss etc just cause they not switched to hots strategies
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On February 10 2013 20:38 DeCoup wrote:
Theres nothing unfair about that. Bunkers are intended as a defensive structure. The game should not be rebalanced just so you can use bunkers more offensively. Creep needs to receed slowly to allow time for queens to replant tumors after they have been wiped out. Terran make so many command centres that they can mule and scan all day. If Terran hes the ability to scan and wipe out screen after screen of creep, I dont think its too unfair for them to have to consider doing a second pass of the area shortly after to take out any queens or new tumors moving in.
Well, if I am not mistaken it takes about 30 seconds for creep to completely recede which is well enough time to plant new tumors. I think a minor decrease of the time it takes for creep to recede would not be unfair considering how fast creep spreads.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
On February 11 2013 21:18 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 20:38 DeCoup wrote:
Theres nothing unfair about that. Bunkers are intended as a defensive structure. The game should not be rebalanced just so you can use bunkers more offensively. Creep needs to receed slowly to allow time for queens to replant tumors after they have been wiped out. Terran make so many command centres that they can mule and scan all day. If Terran hes the ability to scan and wipe out screen after screen of creep, I dont think its too unfair for them to have to consider doing a second pass of the area shortly after to take out any queens or new tumors moving in. Well, if I am not mistaken it takes about 30 seconds for creep to completely recede which is well enough time to plant new tumors. I think a minor decrease of the time it takes for creep to recede would not be unfair considering how fast creep spreads.
Were they not planning to do that in a patch once? Then after whatever event it was that MVP won they cancelled the patch for some reason.
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On February 11 2013 21:07 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 16:08 Alpina wrote:
Wonder if blizzard wants to do something with tempest, or they consider useless broodlords in ZvP a normal thing. funny i still see gm and hig hmaster play broodlords VERY successfull ... for some zergs it seems to hard to ONLY build like 5-6 of them having them as SUPER STRONG support and not mass 20 and have a freewin so: broodlords are totaly fine even vs tempest if you have a nice combo etc ... stop plz saying stuff you guys not really tested -.- so frustrating read all zergs cry because there mass 1-2 units a move win not work anymore ... zergs now in hots really successfull so far but still alot zergs cry vs skytoss etc just cause they not switched to hots strategies
Buidling BLs when toss has tempests? You should be kidding me. They snipe BL like nothing from 15 range. It's super hard counter to BLs, and it's just not worth building anymore at all. Better invest into any other unit.
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On February 11 2013 21:26 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 21:18 Baum wrote:On February 10 2013 20:38 DeCoup wrote:
Theres nothing unfair about that. Bunkers are intended as a defensive structure. The game should not be rebalanced just so you can use bunkers more offensively. Creep needs to receed slowly to allow time for queens to replant tumors after they have been wiped out. Terran make so many command centres that they can mule and scan all day. If Terran hes the ability to scan and wipe out screen after screen of creep, I dont think its too unfair for them to have to consider doing a second pass of the area shortly after to take out any queens or new tumors moving in. Well, if I am not mistaken it takes about 30 seconds for creep to completely recede which is well enough time to plant new tumors. I think a minor decrease of the time it takes for creep to recede would not be unfair considering how fast creep spreads. Were they not planning to do that in a patch once? Then after whatever event it was that MVP won they cancelled the patch for some reason.
Nah, they planned to nerf creep tumor range by 1. They've never adjusted the way creep recedes as far as I can remember.
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Hey guys, is there any online source (kept up to date) where we can read the current unit stats / spell effects / cost / etc.. of HotS beta units (including WoL revamped units)?
Going back through all the patch changes to see what holds now and what doesn't is a bit bothersome.
Anyway, what's the state of current Raven's seeker missile in beta patch #13? I remember that it costs 75 energy and is AoE again, but how much damage does it deal? Cooldown? Time to release the missile? Missile speed? etc..
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On February 11 2013 21:57 ZenithM wrote:
Hey guys, is there any online source (kept up to date) where we can read the current unit stats / spell effects / cost / etc.. of HotS beta units (including WoL revamped units)?
Going back through all the patch changes to see what holds now and what doesn't is a bit bothersome.
Anyway, what's the state of current Raven's seeker missile in beta patch #13? I remember that it costs 75 energy and is AoE again, but how much damage does it deal? Cooldown? Time to release the missile? Missile speed? etc..
4th post in this thread + Liquipedia for new units stats.
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On February 11 2013 22:00 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 21:57 ZenithM wrote:
Hey guys, is there any online source (kept up to date) where we can read the current unit stats / spell effects / cost / etc.. of HotS beta units (including WoL revamped units)?
Going back through all the patch changes to see what holds now and what doesn't is a bit bothersome.
Anyway, what's the state of current Raven's seeker missile in beta patch #13? I remember that it costs 75 energy and is AoE again, but how much damage does it deal? Cooldown? Time to release the missile? Missile speed? etc.. 4th post in this thread + Liquipedia for new units stats.
Oh missed it, nice.
I think Liquipedia should have a HotS section in each modified WoL unit's page.
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On February 11 2013 22:10 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 22:00 Alpina wrote:On February 11 2013 21:57 ZenithM wrote:
Hey guys, is there any online source (kept up to date) where we can read the current unit stats / spell effects / cost / etc.. of HotS beta units (including WoL revamped units)?
Going back through all the patch changes to see what holds now and what doesn't is a bit bothersome.
Anyway, what's the state of current Raven's seeker missile in beta patch #13? I remember that it costs 75 energy and is AoE again, but how much damage does it deal? Cooldown? Time to release the missile? Missile speed? etc.. 4th post in this thread + Liquipedia for new units stats. Oh missed it, nice. I think Liquipedia should have a HotS section in each modified WoL unit's page.
Yeah it would be nice, or even better whole separate page for all old and new Hots units.
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why do so many NON terrans complain about hellbat drop? Everyone Over gold level should have the time to take the probes/drones away... AND do you hear us terran MOAN and cry about baneling drops? which are 10 times better? instant kill... WE terran learn to use the minimap and multitask... Now in hots all zergs cry and moan when i drop 3 plases at once.. JUST be better.. WE terran are always lower ranked than we should be, if you compare the skill.. I got the mechanics as a top master protoss/zerg but im stil just top dia.. WE cant A move to win.. we HAVE to multitask alot to even have a chance to win.. about time other races have to do the same..
Ultraisk is stril to strong vs bio. No one goes bio vs zerg anymore.. soo we have 1 strat vs zerg.. funn.... AND toss is stil to op if u cant kill them whit ur first push
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On February 11 2013 22:27 MiCroLiFe wrote:
why do so many NON terrans complain about hellbat drop? Everyone Over gold level should have the time to take the probes/drones away... AND do you hear us terran MOAN and cry about baneling drops? which are 10 times better? instant kill... WE terran learn to use the minimap and multitask... Now in hots all zergs cry and moan when i drop 3 plases at once.. JUST be better.. WE terran are always lower ranked than we should be, if you compare the skill.. I got the mechanics as a top master protoss/zerg but im stil just top dia.. WE cant A move to win.. we HAVE to multitask alot to even have a chance to win.. about time other races have to do the same..
Ultraisk is stril to strong vs bio. No one goes bio vs zerg anymore.. soo we have 1 strat vs zerg.. funn.... AND toss is stil to op if u cant kill them whit ur first push
I'm sorry? Terrans are the worst whiners about hellbat drops because its ruining TvT more than anything else. Do your research please. I think its fair to say that once a race starts complaining about its own units, something is wrong.
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On February 11 2013 21:07 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 16:08 Alpina wrote:
Wonder if blizzard wants to do something with tempest, or they consider useless broodlords in ZvP a normal thing. funny i still see gm and hig hmaster play broodlords VERY successfull ... for some zergs it seems to hard to ONLY build like 5-6 of them having them as SUPER STRONG support and not mass 20 and have a freewin so: broodlords are totaly fine even vs tempest if you have a nice combo etc ... stop plz saying stuff you guys not really tested -.- so frustrating read all zergs cry because there mass 1-2 units a move win not work anymore ... zergs now in hots really successfull so far but still alot zergs cry vs skytoss etc just cause they not switched to hots strategies
Whenever I read a race accusing another race of a-moving, I become instantly aware that that players has no idea how other races are actually played. Even if you think it's balanced, it doesn't mean that other players are losing to Skytoss because they aren't trying to think of strategies and want to instantly win. Necessary unit compositions have changed drastically, and you're bound to see people disagree about balance. So I agree with you that players have not yet adequately adjusted to HotS strategies, but I disagree that it's because they just want to "mass 1-2 units a move win."
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I've been hellbat dropped a few times, but if you react fast enough, it doesn't kill much because hellbats are sluggish. The problem is having units to actually deal with those things healed by the speed medivac :D
Though I've never had any trouble winning because my own hellbat drop comes earlier than my opponent's so I kill his army producing capabilities earlier.
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