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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 05 2013 19:06 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 18:36 T.O.P. wrote:On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote:On February 05 2013 17:11 T.O.P. wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Uh5rFQ2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0eJN5tT.jpg) Nobody thinks this is a problem? No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. Ok. You guys know so much about the game. Give me a build to do vs protoss that opens with 2 gas. Get an ebay. Scout: DTs -> Missile Turret Stargate -> Missile Turret Blink ->Sensor Tower (You will at all points in time know where his army is and when he decides to blink up without endangering a single unit Still have to lift natural CC obviously but once you got stim it is pretty much won)
You're missing something with missile turret. You need to build at least 2 of them for full coverage. You're also forgetting something important. Protoss can expo while keeping your in your one base, just like in pvp where one guy blink expands. Terran however is stuck with no followup.
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On February 05 2013 19:16 Garmer wrote:
it's good that the oracle beat marines for cost(for mineral at least), stop thinking the marine should counter any air, actually they need to be nerfed, cuz they are too veratile, use viking turret and other stuff to kill air
(yes i'm terran)
Oh Viking turret? You mean like opening gas into FE into fact into starport, so a 1gate nexus into 4 gate can crush you? Or are we talking about a 1-1-1 into CC, that is behind vs a 1gate nexus?
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On February 05 2013 19:22 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:06 rEalGuapo wrote:On February 05 2013 18:36 T.O.P. wrote:On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote:On February 05 2013 17:11 T.O.P. wrote:Nobody thinks this is a problem? No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. Ok. You guys know so much about the game. Give me a build to do vs protoss that opens with 2 gas. Get an ebay. Scout: DTs -> Missile Turret Stargate -> Missile Turret Blink ->Sensor Tower (You will at all points in time know where his army is and when he decides to blink up without endangering a single unit Still have to lift natural CC obviously but once you got stim it is pretty much won) And scout it how exactly? With a scan? BOOM: tech is hidden somewhere else. With an scv? BOOM: stalker out. With a reaper? Then you opened gas, and chances are high that the toss will prevent the reaper to get in.
I am not sure how he will prevent the Reaper to come in with Reaper's 3.75 movement speed, while fastest unit for Protoss at that stage of the game, the Stalker, got 2.95 movement speed. Only if the map itself prevents Reaper from going into the base, which won't happen.
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On February 05 2013 19:25 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 19:16 Garmer wrote:
it's good that the oracle beat marines for cost(for mineral at least), stop thinking the marine should counter any air, actually they need to be nerfed, cuz they are too veratile, use viking turret and other stuff to kill air
(yes i'm terran) Oh Viking turret? You mean like opening gas into FE into fact into starport, so a 1gate nexus into 4 gate can crush you? Or are we talking about a 1-1-1 into CC, that is behind vs a 1gate nexus?
they also need gas for oracle, you can just build two turret in the minerals fields
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Ain't nothing changed ?
I'm struggling to see how this is going to make the game any better, its just bandage after bandage slapped onto it.
I'm confident that HotS will be enjoyable like WoL was a small year after release,
but I pray to god that it doesn't end in the same ol' 3base-max-and-go.
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On February 05 2013 19:08 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 18:36 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote:On February 05 2013 17:11 T.O.P. wrote:Nobody thinks this is a problem? No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. If the Oracle is allowed to be that strong (beat 6 marines at the same time and live with a decent chunk of HP) then why are so many people crying for hellbat nerfs (despite mech as a whole still being bad in both matchups because of Viper and Skytoss)? This is called bias. As a random player it's pretty obvious that the Oracle seems a bit overly strong, and I think most reasonable people would agree. I have to say that I find it hilarious how you are talking about bias, when every post of yours is crying about how Terran is weak, while also saying that you are playing random. Yes, Terran should be buffed a lot and everything else should be nerfed into Oblivion, then it would be "fair" for you, I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
On February 05 2013 18:02 _vk_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 17:41 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Holy crap, so much complaining going on. I still didn't lose hope. I think that Blizzard will have it done, and even if it is imbalanced at the start, they will fix things later. So far from watching VODs, HOTS is a lot more interesting than WoL, and WoL was solid game imo.
The funniest thing is how some people complain about units being "useless" or "uninteresting" when it is just their opinion. It's hard not to lose hope when you see the HOTS beta repeating WoL's mistakes. The community may have strong-armed Blizzard into fixing some of the most egregious problems, but it seems that they're learned very little in the process.
Yes, but that said just because Blizzard didn't learn I still think what happened in the past with #savehots and the community urging that brought about the removal of the Warhound and other relatively good changes for HotS set a good precedent in that Blizzard does listen somewhat if we're loud enough; despite how terrible this proposed patch is I think as a community, even if we lose hope, we still should keep pushing. I know it's grim; Browder has even recently said that there's "not a chance" that Warp Gate or Colossus would ever be revisited, but what can we do?
If all else fails then we'll just have to try our best to fix the game with community editing. The SC2BW and FWB projects have shown that we can get a lot done.
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#savehots needs another go, I agree. This current Hots is not good enough.
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I'm surprised they aren't addressing Medivac speed ability and VRs, because both are equally dumb. First one should be a research and second one has very limited use outside of PvP. PvZ seems fine from my experience, but I expect some korean toss to show us crazy new timings with the void rays or mothership core that will have to be nerfed into the ground.
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I know it's grim; Browder has even recently said that there's "not a chance" that Warp Gate or Colossus would ever be revisited, but what can we do?
Where did he say this?
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The Overlord Speed change is just as useless as the Burrow change. Why should I invest 100/100 for Overlord Speed, when I can just invest 150/100 to get a Lair and simply scout with Overseers plus have all of the additional advantages of the Lair tech? That's just never gonna work. You need to lower the resources _and_ research time for both Burrow and Overlord Speed for them to be useful on T1.
For the Spore Crawler change I think it's generally an interesting idea and will definitely help. I still fear that mass Muta might be too good. If the change allows you to get a safe third base against Muta, then this will help a lot to get a decent number of Infestors/Hydras to battle the Mutas. At least Blizzard realized that ZvZ is broken right now...
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No matter what you do in TvP and your opening,you must get ebay at 6:00 and turret in the mineral line+4 marines OR bunker+4 marines to prevent the oracle harass. IF you go 1rax FE you still can defend DTs keeping your scans near 6:30-7:00 mins.
Vikings are bad vs Oracle,because it takes an year to kill one of them,while they are going to crush 20 workers(if two of them are coming).
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Looks like the broad sweeping changes most people were hoping for arent going to arrive. Probably going to expect some significant day 1-3 patches before MLG.
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I still think HotS is really good and even though its not balanced at this time there are ways to deal with most things. As a zerg I love that hellbatdrops are strong for example. It adds excitement to the game to see some some good focus-firing and pickup micro in the early game. Burrow is strong aswell but with hellbat splash you can still kill things without scan. I am positive that good players will find ways to do amazing things with the new units and Im looking forward to seeing that.
As far as the changes proposed I think they are worth testing. Spore splash aeo against bio should be considered though or maybe even some queen aoe ability against bio air (muta).
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Zerg DOES NOT NEED A SCOUTING BUFF. This is the most preposterous change ever proposed for the beta. I am fully and wholeheartedly against it. If David Kim disagrees I am willing to write a full-length, hardcover book proving him wrong.
DEADSERIOUS :-O
As a Protoss player, though, I know it's early, but I am currently of the opinion that Void Rays break the PvP matchup. Stargate or die!
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I am losing my faith to ... the faith in the community.
Is anyone really expecting a fully balanced game at launch date?
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Overlord speed buff is almost irrelevant, the cost is huge for what you get and I dont feel like Z need a scouting buff at that timing, but that's more options for players willing to pay the price so why not
Fungal nerf, I dont understand, it doesnt feel that strong on the beta, I dont see why they'd want to nerf it more
Spore buff is a decent band-aid fix to muta spam in ZvZ but they are missing the opportunity of buffing Zerg general anti-air, as it feel very weak vs Sky deathball
I cant say about oracle's envision
Overall I'm not liking it much, missing some point like the hellbat issue
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On February 05 2013 21:28 [F_]aths wrote:I am losing my faith to ... the faith in the community. Is anyone really expecting a fully balanced game at launch date?
No, but why the hell do they spend weeks (yes, weeks) for stuff like moving burrow and ovi speed to hatch tech instead fixing some (just SOME^^) of the obvious problems?
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On February 05 2013 21:28 LF[Media] wrote:
Zerg DOES NOT NEED A SCOUTING BUFF. This is the most preposterous change ever proposed for the beta. I am fully and wholeheartedly against it. If David Kim disagrees I am willing to write a full-length, hardcover book proving him wrong.
DEADSERIOUS :-O
As a Protoss player, though, I know it's early, but I am currently of the opinion that Void Rays break the PvP matchup. Stargate or die!
With a 40 second build time increase it's a nerf if anything lol.
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What the is this? What the fock have they been doing past the 5 minutes coming up with this needed? It's been weeks and this is all? No change for corruptor, nothing done about fungal rooting, Oracle, mine, nothing changed at Terrans late game or thor either, and the gateway colossi is only not the most boring thing left without a change is now only because they are not doing anything about the messy skytoss either. We need changes and this is what they propose. What is wrong with you blizzard?
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EPT
