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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 05 2013 17:29 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: Yes it is clearly imba that terran cannot defend against oracle builds that cost 300/300 with 5 unupgraded marines costing 250 minerals. Oracles cost 150/150. Don't mislead people | ||
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_vk_
219 Posts
On February 05 2013 17:41 Ramiz1989 wrote: Holy crap, so much complaining going on. I still didn't lose hope. I think that Blizzard will have it done, and even if it is imbalanced at the start, they will fix things later. So far from watching VODs, HOTS is a lot more interesting than WoL, and WoL was solid game imo. The funniest thing is how some people complain about units being "useless" or "uninteresting" when it is just their opinion. It's hard not to lose hope when you see the HOTS beta repeating WoL's mistakes. The community may have strong-armed Blizzard into fixing some of the most egregious problems, but it seems that they're learned very little in the process. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51491 Posts
EDIT: Spore buff won't affect ZvZ so much, because when people have a big enough muta flock they basically oneshot spores anyway. Envision is rarely used. Could see more use with that change but I doubt it. Well no..because they want that to not happen. They want sports to replace the mass fungal of the mutarisks. Pretty sure that is a big deal to ZvZ. Like he was saying the 100/100 and 100 second wait for Overlord speed is still pretty long, i guess it makes getting creep highways even quicker. Guess will have to see what the likes of NesTea and the innovative players do with this one. I wanna see how OP these spores are going to be ^_^ | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
Classic Blizzard timing to balance the obvious. | ||
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mongoose22
174 Posts
On February 05 2013 13:47 Patate wrote: You are missing the point of 95% of the complaints. This is not about balancing the game, this is about asking Blizzard to take the opportunity to FIX the game. The problem is that they think HoTS is good enough to be launched.. it is almost the same thing as WoL with a few more build orders available. Why not try to decrease the income per base (to make the game more than a "sit on 3 bases and max out")? why not try to make the deathballs move in lines (to create a defender's advantage)? They are missing the only chance that they have to actually save this game. If things keep up like this, there will be no one to care about LoTV. Now if only Riot would make a worthy successor to BW :/ EDIT: And as long as we're talking about the changes.. I'm calling it right now. This is gonna screw PvZ entirely. The timing in which a zerg will be able to mass drop into a toss base will be accelerated by 140 seconds. Have your natural's hatchery upgrade speed while your lair is building, as soon as lair is done, begin overlord drop and build a ton of roaches. There we go... "FOR SCOUTING PURPOSES HUEHUEHUE" As if Zergs need scouting in the first place, and as if this will not affect timings.. :X IMO you're missing the point of why Mr. Kim makes these posts. He's specifically asking for user feedback about those specific changes. All these other suggestions about what Blizzard should or should not be doing is, one, completely off topic to what was being asked, and two, not going to make much of a dent with the designers when accompanied with such fatalistic predictions. It's like someone asking you, "Do you have the time?" and you respond with "Do I have the time?! Does anyone have the time?! Why didn't you kill that black cat walking in front of me?! We're all going to die! Where's your shotgun?! The Zombie Apocalypse is upon us!!!!" At which point the guy with the question backs away slowly. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 05 2013 13:47 Patate wrote: You are missing the point of 95% of the complaints. This is not about balancing the game, this is about asking Blizzard to take the opportunity to FIX the game. The problem is that they think HoTS is good enough to be launched.. it is almost the same thing as WoL with a few more build orders available. Why not try to decrease the income per base (to make the game more than a "sit on 3 bases and max out")? why not try to make the deathballs move in lines (to create a defender's advantage)? They are missing the only chance that they have to actually save this game. If things keep up like this, there will be no one to care about LoTV. Now if only Riot would make a worthy successor to BW :/ EDIT: And as long as we're talking about the changes.. I'm calling it right now. This is gonna screw PvZ entirely. The timing in which a zerg will be able to mass drop into a toss base will be accelerated by 140 seconds. Have your natural's hatchery upgrade speed while your lair is building, as soon as lair is done, begin overlord drop and build a ton of roaches. There we go... "FOR SCOUTING PURPOSES HUEHUEHUE" As if Zergs need scouting in the first place, and as if this will not affect timings.. :X Wait. How is overlord drop going to come out any sooner? It's still lair tech. No matter what the earliest drop tech will be the same now and after this patch. overlord speed finishes way before overlord drop and if you are going to do drops you get both upgrades at the same time lol. I don't get how you think overlord speed being re searchable at hatch tech = faster drops won't change it at all. Same timing no matter what. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On February 05 2013 17:11 T.O.P. wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Uh5rFQ2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0eJN5tT.jpg) Nobody thinks this is a problem? No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. | ||
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Dirkinity
Germany409 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:09 Belha wrote: So no hellbat and medivac nerfs? Classic Blizzard timing to balance the obvious. Hellbats and Medivacs are fine, there are other things wrong with HotS. Especially Medivac speed is a great thing for the game. Its not like its a auto-boost, you have to micro the shit out of it to make it worthless. For 95% of terrans the only use it to "sprint" in and out of the base. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On February 05 2013 13:47 Patate wrote: You are missing the point of 95% of the complaints. This is not about balancing the game, this is about asking Blizzard to take the opportunity to FIX the game. The problem is that they think HoTS is good enough to be launched.. it is almost the same thing as WoL with a few more build orders available. Why not try to decrease the income per base (to make the game more than a "sit on 3 bases and max out")? why not try to make the deathballs move in lines (to create a defender's advantage)? They are missing the only chance that they have to actually save this game. If things keep up like this, there will be no one to care about LoTV. Now if only Riot would make a worthy successor to BW :/ Very well said. I've also lost hope. At first I lost it, but then it returned with patch 8 (which the community unanimously agreed on), but since then we haven't had any good patches or any changes in the right direction (things we've been asking for and flaws we've been pointing out since WoL release) proving that it was likely dumb luck. Blizzard had a chance to fix this game which is blatantly disrespectful to it's predecessor in it's current state, but they don't seem to care as long as SC2 is profitable as beta is drawing to an end. They'll just milk it, and move on to the next big flashy new game after LotV is milked. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote: No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. If the Oracle is allowed to be that strong (beat 6 marines at the same time and live with a decent chunk of HP) then why are so many people crying for hellbat nerfs (despite mech as a whole still being bad in both matchups because of Viper and Skytoss)? This is called bias. As a random player it's pretty obvious that the Oracle seems a bit overly strong, and I think most reasonable people would agree. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:26 Belha wrote: No. Oracle is designed to beat only ground light units AND Oracle cost much more brute cost and tech than 5 marines. Ok. You guys know so much about the game. Give me a build to do vs protoss that opens with 2 gas. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On February 05 2013 17:35 IronyDK wrote: Overlord speed wont change drop viabillity at all. It's already the shortest upgrade, research time wise. If they changed the research times around I could see some viabillty in it, but that wouldn't make much sense either. Well I thought the oracle was supposed to be a support caster and harassment unit, not some combat unit that owns a lot of stuff cost efficiently? do you know what cost efficiently means? On February 05 2013 18:27 Dirkinity wrote: Hellbats and Medivacs are fine, there are other things wrong with HotS. Especially Medivac speed is a great thing for the game. Its not like its a auto-boost, you have to micro the shit out of it to make it worthless. For 95% of terrans the only use it to "sprint" in and out of the base. no they are not | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:36 T.O.P. wrote: Ok. You guys know so much about the game. Give me a build to do vs protoss that opens with 2 gas. Get an ebay. Scout: DTs -> Missile Turret Stargate -> Missile Turret Blink ->Sensor Tower (You will at all points in time know where his army is and when he decides to blink up without endangering a single unit Still have to lift natural CC obviously but once you got stim it is pretty much won) | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:36 DemigodcelpH wrote: If the Oracle is allowed to be that strong (beat 6 marines at the same time and live with a decent chunk of HP) then why are so many people crying for hellbat nerfs (despite mech as a whole still being bad in both matchups because of Viper and Skytoss)? This is called bias. As a random player it's pretty obvious that the Oracle seems a bit overly strong, and I think most reasonable people would agree. I have to say that I find it hilarious how you are talking about bias, when every post of yours is crying about how Terran is weak, while also saying that you are playing random. Yes, Terran should be buffed a lot and everything else should be nerfed into Oblivion, then it would be "fair" for you, I guess. | ||
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thezanursic
5489 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
(yes i'm terran) | ||
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doggy
Germany306 Posts
Shall i list them? Curropter, nydus, hellbat, infestor, etc. etc. I really dont understand why blizzard wastes so much time in making stupid changes like burrow at hatch tech or overlord speed at hatch tech. I mean maybe its nice, but it will have little or no impact on the game. At least there is some hope left for me that they may work on some obvious things and just ask for feedback about things which they arent sure about. But hell, honestly, its blizzard, looking back to the past 3 years steals me that hope. I bet money it takes at least a year until hots will be decently balanced.. | ||
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
On February 05 2013 18:36 DemigodcelpH wrote: If the Oracle is allowed to be that strong (beat 6 marines at the same time and live with a decent chunk of HP) then why are so many people crying for hellbat nerfs (despite mech as a whole still being bad in both matchups because of Viper and Skytoss)? This is called bias. As a random player it's pretty obvious that the Oracle seems a bit overly strong, and I think most reasonable people would agree. The tragedy of all of this is that the oracle was supposed to be a "smart" unit, as in a spellcaster that would harass, and not actually kill units, along with other non-deathballish spells. reality of the game is different however, you NEED to tech to an attacking unit Get this, and this is by far the most important critic I have of SC2: The "minutes" I will be referring to are actually blizzard minutes, so it is actually 0.66 real minutes for a blizzard minute IIRC. A zerg can max out in 11 minutes.. most non-cheesy builds will not involve any pressure whatsoever before 6 minutes. So the actual window for meaningful harassment is actually 5 BLIZZARD minutes. In other words, as opposed to BW, there is actually no time in SC2 to really develop a nice harassment strategy. SC2 has no deep harassment involved.. most of the times, the term " harassment" we use is just some multitasking situation.. while the enemy's deathball is away from mineral patches. SC2 also has no map control.. it has map awareness. You don't put 4-5 siege tanks and mines somewhere to defend a path, because the deathball would only take the other path and destroy your main army which is 4-5 siege tanls and mines short in supply. See where I'm getting at? Blizzard should work on THIS instead of balancing the same old shit. And then I see you guys arguing whether an oracle should kill 5 marines or they should kill the oracle. Are you kidding me? Do you really think this is gonna make the game a treat for viewers? do you think all the koreans who said "Fuck it" when kespa moved from BW to SC2 are suddenly gonna come back when we will finally balance the oracle-marines dynamism? Will we finally fill up all the stadiums from the BW OSL times because some Patchzerg will siege up a protoss with his mighty swarm hosts? Seriously... arguing about balance while the game has fundamental flaws is not going to solve anything.. forget it. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On February 05 2013 19:06 rEalGuapo wrote: Get an ebay. Scout: DTs -> Missile Turret Stargate -> Missile Turret Blink ->Sensor Tower (You will at all points in time know where his army is and when he decides to blink up without endangering a single unit Still have to lift natural CC obviously but once you got stim it is pretty much won) And scout it how exactly? With a scan? BOOM: tech is hidden somewhere else. With an scv? BOOM: stalker out. With a reaper? Then you opened gas, and chances are high that the toss will prevent the reaper to get in. | ||
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