On February 02 2013 03:57 blade55555 wrote:Of course you don't want to open swarmhost vs 2 stargate voidray or anything and do mutalisks instead.
Mutas vs. 2 stargate? :O Sounds like suicide XD
I should rephrase what I meant xD. If it's 2 stargate phoenix then obviously not going to go mutas and going swarmhost/corruptor. If he is doing voidrays (this is what I meant) I will make mutas.
A lot of tosses will open up 2 stargates and go straight to voids. Mutas are best response as you can kill the voids (hopefully) and force him to make phoenix instead of voids so you can get swarmhosts out and corruptors and not have to worry about 20 voidrays by the time you attack.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
Yeah i get this, but maybe with missile upgrades you won't even need to go into ultras, cause you gonna kill toss. I mean zergling melt vs. toss anyways and ultras are strong either way, looks like improving locust damage would help a lot.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
Yeah i get this, but maybe with missile upgrades you won't even need to go into ultras, cause you gonna kill toss. I mean zergling melt vs. toss anyways and ultras are strong either way, looks like improving locust damage would help a lot.
No you won't kill toss with them even if they do an extra 2 damage. The toss should eventually get that critical amount of colossi where locusts don't really do anything. No matter what upgrades your locusts have. Trust me it doesn't make as much of a difference then you seem to think cause I used to think the same way but you will have to transition to kill the toss if he is playing correctly.
Hm, did you try Swarm Hosts with Infestors vs. Bio? At GSL HotS showmatches(or was it GSL, don't know, it was streamed there), Leenock played with Swarm Hosts and Infestors against MKP. I know they were just testing stuff, and it doesn't have to be viable, but he crushed MKP with ease that game. You can maybe even start with Infestors, and get like 4-5 of them, and then start adding Swarm Hosts to the army.
On February 02 2013 07:19 Ramiz1989 wrote: Hm, did you try Swarm Hosts with Infestors vs. Bio? At GSL HotS showmatches(or was it GSL, don't know, it was streamed there), Leenock played with Swarm Hosts and Infestors against MKP. I know they were just testing stuff, and it doesn't have to be viable, but he crushed MKP with ease that game. You can maybe even start with Infestors, and get like 4-5 of them, and then start adding Swarm Hosts to the army.
Hm I have not tried that yet I will try that next time I play a terran who goes bio :D
Yeah, exactly that. I mean, those Videos are pretty old, but I don't see why it shouldn't work. He committed to them quite heavily though(he had 30 at one point lol), but you don't really have to. You can make ~15, as that is the number that you usually use vs. Protoss, and go for Infestors, Lings and Banelings as support, while taking bases and tech to Ultras. Of course, this is all theory, but you can try it, solo Swarm Hosts can't do much because of mobility of Bio.
i had a 55 minute game where the enemy had 22 swarmhosts and 22 queens in the middle of this small map ... i had 10k 10k with protoss, 200 supply 3-3-3 carrier/tempest/voidray/colossi everything and had no chance to win ,... he later mixed in 30 corrupter to his hosts and won the game after 1 hour -_- i hate swarmhosts
On February 02 2013 17:17 CoR wrote: i had a 55 minute game where the enemy had 22 swarmhosts and 22 queens in the middle of this small map ... i had 10k 10k with protoss, 200 supply 3-3-3 carrier/tempest/voidray/colossi everything and had no chance to win ,... he later mixed in 30 corrupter to his hosts and won the game after 1 hour -_- i hate swarmhosts
Going to be honest no idea how that would work. Although tbh you should be going voidray/templar and that's it. Voids are what makes sky toss OP. Carrier/tempest is fightable. Next time go pure void/templar once it hits late game, trust me zerg army melts faster then butter in lava.
All right guys next 5 games of swarmhost action! This one features 4 zvps and 1 zvt verse a bio player! You will notice that verse the bio is a work in progress, I am trying to optimize the build so look forward to it getting more and more optimized. So far I am 1-3 doing this, but this one was where I made a modification in getting infestors first. still a work in progress .
On February 01 2013 23:09 Orzabal wrote: Always enjoying your replays Blade !
So are you fedup with the ground ball + viper style ? Or do you try some SH play to learn every aspect of the game ?
Well I was strugggling zvp really bad. So I started experimenting with swarmhosts and and found out their really good. Of course you don't want to open swarmhost vs 2 stargate voidray or anything and do mutalisks instead.
Swarmhost/muta are both fun strats that I have pretty good success with.
I was thinking about "the swarm host commitment" in general.
Dont you think make the SH a mutation for Hydralisk would be more interesting for the dynamic of the zerg race ? It would be more flexible, less "all-in". The composition of zerg army should be more varied and the strat overall, less readable by the enemie.
Just finished your ZvT SH vs. Bio replay. Of course, it wasn't the perfect showcase of Swarm Hosts vs. Bio, because it was just one game, but I must say that I am impressed how not so large number of them(You had 8-10) could make the difference and hold Bio, they controlled the Area pretty well together with Infestors. And later in the game, you only had 8, and they were making the difference in those engagements with Ultralisks. And with them, Widow Mines don't feel like huge problem. I like it.
On February 02 2013 21:54 Ramiz1989 wrote: Just finished your ZvT SH vs. Bio replay. Of course, it wasn't the perfect showcase of Swarm Hosts vs. Bio, because it was just one game, but I must say that I am impressed how not so large number of them(You had 8-10) could make the difference and hold Bio, they controlled the Area pretty well together with Infestors. And later in the game, you only had 8, and they were making the difference in those engagements with Ultralisks. And with them, Widow Mines don't feel like huge problem. I like it.
To be honest me to. I watched the replay and I have been struggling vs heavy tank play but the swarmhosts really made engaging it so much easier in every way possible.
Still has some work to be done on them in terms of using them since terran is very different with bio and their army is a lot more mobile then a protoss army. So getting used to it and using them correctly well take time and then having to deal with drops as well. Hopefully can have a better optimized version verse bio soon
Muta-ling-bane into ling-bane-hosts can be a deadly transition for terran.
1) Terran will waste minerals on anti-air defending 2) You always can snipe some tanks 3) You will slow enemy expansions 4) You can deal with drops 5) Switch to swarm hosts and start pressure
I think it may work, in theory of course, but you should try in practice too
On February 03 2013 04:19 Existor wrote: Muta-ling-bane into ling-bane-hosts can be a deadly transition for terran.
1) Terran will waste minerals on anti-air defending 2) You always can snipe some tanks 3) You will slow enemy expansions 4) You can deal with drops 5) Switch to swarm hosts and start pressure
I think it may work, in theory of course, but you should try in practice too
I did try muta/ling/bane into swarmhost. I figured in theory it would be good to but I kinda get stomped everytime. Swarmhosts come out a little to late and you can't get enough (have to get double upgrades + locusts upgrade) and yeah. Tried that don't recommend it.
Infestor on the other hand I like then adding in swarmhost.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8F6Lo.jpg)
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