Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
Here is another 5 games (4 zvp with one of them doing immortal all in, 1 zvt vs mech).
All right guys next 5 games of swarmhost action! This one features 4 zvps Abomb is the only notable I believe and 1 zvt verse a bio player! You will notice that verse the bio is a work in progress, I am trying to optimize the build so look forward to it getting more and more optimized. So far I am 1-3 doing this, but this one was where I made a modification in getting infestors first. still a work in progress .
This one has by far the best games. The zvt ones I recommend all 3 especially the bio one on daybreak. That one was a crazy game. The 2 zvp's feature babyknight and Dbling. I have given up on swarmhosts zvz as I think their shit. I won once but lose most of the time when going them in zvz. So don't expect anymore zvz's.
zvt bio I am liking the swarmhosts for the most part but their definitely a lot harder to use. Requires really good multi tasking to deal with drops + him trying to sneak in and kill them. It's pretty tough but I think their viable.
I will add these replays to Siege Mushroom guide, okay? Nice games.
Also can you post here tips how to use Swarm Hosts? What you think need to know when using SH? How to better use them in cooperation with other units? Like reposition more often or don't rely only on Swarm Hosts and use them as powerfull support? What you think is uneffective when playing with Swarm Hosts? Etc
How do you know when he has no observer in mid game fights? especially with everything going on i dont see how you could notice/not notice the blur, or were you just getting lucky sometimes when your army died but you left your SH there even though he still had an army?
On January 31 2013 15:59 Existor wrote: I will add these replays to Siege Mushroom guide, okay? Nice games.
Also can you post here tips how to use Swarm Hosts? What you think need to know when using SH? How to better use them in cooperation with other units? Like reposition more often or don't rely only on Swarm Hosts and use them as powerfull support? What you think is uneffective when playing with Swarm Hosts? Etc
Yeah that's fine :D.
For tips vs toss I would almost always get them and you want to be active. Don't leave them in one spot unless you know you can safely. If you see him moving up throw down a wave and run back.
I always use them zvp and vs mech their good as well.
With toss I would go ling/corruptor/swarmhost - into late game ultra/ling/bane/infestor/corruptor.
Haven't really had any problems or weaknesses yet in zvp anyway zvt only done it vs mech and won both so no problems as of yet.
On January 31 2013 17:28 sharepass11 wrote: How do you know when he has no observer in mid game fights? especially with everything going on i dont see how you could notice/not notice the blur, or were you just getting lucky sometimes when your army died but you left your SH there even though he still had an army?
You should have an overseer with your army. Guess I dont' really understand the question could you be a little more specific?
Awesome replays! I only quickly skipped thru them but I cant wait to go back and watch them all in more detail. I'm so glad to see that these really are not all-in, gimmicky or relying on bad decision making from the opponent. I was sceptical of host play till now.
Edit: I also gave up on hosts vs bio a while back. Not that it means much coming from someone as unskilled as me
On January 31 2013 21:28 doggy wrote: Nice work, thanks man! I will definately check them out this evening. Still havent found a really comfortable way to play zvp.
Btw, is your winrate using SH in zvp quite good or could u only make them work in a few games?
In zvp since I have been doing this in near undefeated. I have only lost twice out of 15 or so zvp and those games I made a huge mistake and lost.
Decoup me to it took a lot of me messing around to get this build as good as it is now :D.
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
He is using SH against mech. Just not against bio.
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
He is using SH against mech. Just not against bio.
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
I am watching these games now, I must say first game of you vs. Neeb(Star Station) was awesome! And seconds game between you two was cool as well, I really liked a lot of Hydras, Roaches, Broodlings and Locusts going vs. Hellions and Thors on Howling Peaks, that felt like the true Zerg Swarm, even though a lot of units were spawned units.
On February 01 2013 05:42 JonIrenicus wrote: I was able to notice that mech is not strong against swarm host. I had always to tech to bc when the zerg opponent made the swarm host. Am I the only one who use to have so many problems agianst SH when meching?
Mass tanks are a good vs it so that the locusts never reach your army. And that's what mech in hots is atm is literally pure siege tank .
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
Why don't you like rar things?
Totally off-topic: rar is the betamax of the compression wars!
And on topic: how have protoss been responding to your swarm host play? In the swarmhost cloud reply, the protoss stays turtled at their third. Some of this is forced by your pressure, but what's stopped me from keeping up host play in zvp is the protoss that builds up just enough at home to parry hosts and then backstabs with blink stalkers or prism play. This might be more of a map/positioning thing, though.
(The zvp swarmhost cloud replay seems to be corrupted or otherwise not playable in the current client.)
On January 31 2013 13:21 blade55555 wrote: Hey guys I figured this would be a good place to post these replays that feature only swarmhost type of play. This will feature mainly in zvp and 2 games of zvt (vs mech, I will never do them vs bio as I am like 0-15 or so with it lol) and 1 game of zvz.
I will update this with some more for zvz and what not in the future and will bump this thread so keep an eye on that.
This also has my replay of me vs seed as well.
You guys will notice this is all macro oriented swarmhosts and not all in or anything. Hope you guys enjoy!
This will also feature transitioning. You don't want to remain on swarmhosts all game that's never a good idea you should be teching + expanding and all that while using swarm hosts effectively.
You're having the opposite experience than me, Blade. I've found swarm hosts effective against mech (as a cover into brood lords). Host/hydra/corruptor was working well in zvp for me until Protoss figured out how to either punch through it or go around host lines with blink stalkers. In zvz, I've never found a way to be comfortable with hosts as zerg armies are too mobile. =/
(EDIT: and goddamnit blade, don't rar things! >_<)
Why don't you like rar things?
Totally off-topic: rar is the betamax of the compression wars!
And on topic: how have protoss been responding to your swarm host play? In the swarmhost cloud reply, the protoss stays turtled at their third. Some of this is forced by your pressure, but what's stopped me from keeping up host play in zvp is the protoss that builds up just enough at home to parry hosts and then backstabs with blink stalkers or prism play. This might be more of a map/positioning thing, though.
(The zvp swarmhost cloud replay seems to be corrupted or otherwise not playable in the current client.)
Hm not sure why that would be might have put a bad one in on accident. As for the reply most are contained and you need to be very minimap aware because yes backstabs and stuff can be a pain.
A few replays show case them trying this (blink stalker run around, warp prism drops) watch me vs TT1 as an example for warp prism most tosses do try this.
Oh btw, I really suggest all of you to watch replay named "Immo all in 1" vs. XionS. Great game, with constant action, and when you killed both Nexuses at once, he proceed to kill your 4th and 3rd, and then when you did all those Lings, Swarm Hosts and Locusts flanks and surrounds, as Artosis would said, nerd chills man. :D
I really like how is the Zerg shaping in the middle game at the moment. Seen a lot of different strategies lately, Swarm Hosts, Roaches with Hydras, Mutalisks, Infestors, basically every tech is viable(not in all situations of course), and late game, Ultras are a lot better thanks to the buffs and Vipers.
I just hope that we have a lot of viable strategies like this, would really not like something like Swarm Hosts to become mandatory, what happened to Infestors in WoL...
Still didn't finish all of the replays, keep them coming!
I personally found SHs best in ZvZ if zerg goes into ground army. I open muta (<10), and harass him while building SH army. When he moves out it's usually quite one sided, but it can be because i am playing little bit weaker opponents so not sure.
On February 01 2013 18:53 Alpina wrote: Gonna check those reps.
I personally found SHs best in ZvZ if zerg goes into ground army. I open muta (<10), and harass him while building SH army. When he moves out it's usually quite one sided, but it can be because i am playing little bit weaker opponents so not sure.
I'm still not sure how good they are zvz. I have won most of the time I did it and so far 1-0 when i did it again but it wasn't verse a really good zerg so I am not sure.
How do you deal with Good toss on the beta who go into sky toss? Tempest/void/storms stream roll the swarm/corrupter/infestor like no other. And as above said alot of the toss I play on the beta go into blink stalker avoid the swarm lines, turtle up with cannons, then tran into a sky deathball that rolls over you in the late game.
I seen LZ make it work, but he pushes and ends the game before toss can get his 3rd up, pretty early push with mass lings/swarm/mutas
Sup blade, Zodex44 from your stream here . Just held an mmortal all in trying this for the first time. Didn't check out any replays or really know what your general build is, just did stand 15p/16h with 2 gas at 6:00 as per usual. Worked out really well though .
This sounds great. Really wanted Swarm hosts to be viable in at least some match-ups and versus certain compositions. Going to watch these when I get home (next week T_T). Thanks for uploading!
On February 01 2013 23:09 Orzabal wrote: Always enjoying your replays Blade !
So are you fedup with the ground ball + viper style ? Or do you try some SH play to learn every aspect of the game ?
Well I was strugggling zvp really bad. So I started experimenting with swarmhosts and and found out their really good. Of course you don't want to open swarmhost vs 2 stargate voidray or anything and do mutalisks instead.
Swarmhost/muta are both fun strats that I have pretty good success with.
On February 02 2013 00:33 LingBlingBling wrote: How do you deal with Good toss on the beta who go into sky toss? Tempest/void/storms stream roll the swarm/corrupter/infestor like no other. And as above said alot of the toss I play on the beta go into blink stalker avoid the swarm lines, turtle up with cannons, then tran into a sky deathball that rolls over you in the late game.
I seen LZ make it work, but he pushes and ends the game before toss can get his 3rd up, pretty early push with mass lings/swarm/mutas
There is a replay of it with seed where he gets the mass sky toss (although he stopped going voids and went pur etempest/templar which isnt' as hard to deal with as pure voids xD).
Also as I said as well some of these replays (a lot) show case the protoss going around and trying to avoid the swarmhosts all together. They blink and try to go snipe bases, etc. YYou will see how I handle those with the reps as so far they have never been very successful.
Sky toss though once they get a high supply count of voidray/templar is unbeatable. No idea how a zerg can ever beat it but thank god most tosses I play either don't know best methods to do it or know it's broken as shit and will get patched or just don't realize how strong it is.
On February 02 2013 03:57 blade55555 wrote:Of course you don't want to open swarmhost vs 2 stargate voidray or anything and do mutalisks instead.
Mutas vs. 2 stargate? :O Sounds like suicide XD
I should rephrase what I meant xD. If it's 2 stargate phoenix then obviously not going to go mutas and going swarmhost/corruptor. If he is doing voidrays (this is what I meant) I will make mutas.
A lot of tosses will open up 2 stargates and go straight to voids. Mutas are best response as you can kill the voids (hopefully) and force him to make phoenix instead of voids so you can get swarmhosts out and corruptors and not have to worry about 20 voidrays by the time you attack.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
Yeah i get this, but maybe with missile upgrades you won't even need to go into ultras, cause you gonna kill toss. I mean zergling melt vs. toss anyways and ultras are strong either way, looks like improving locust damage would help a lot.
On February 02 2013 02:57 Alpina wrote: Noticed you never upgrade missile attack while locusts get huge boost in damage considering their fast attack speed.
Yes, he is upgrading melee attack because he is still using a lot of Zerglings, and because he is switching later to Ultralisks. Locusts are free, and are good with or without range upgrades anyway, armor upgrades help them survive more and do more damage, and if you are going for range upgrades, you will delay your melee upgrades by a lot. And btw, in some replays, he went for 1 range upgrade. In ZvT, he was getting 3-3 range upgrades as far as remember.
Yeah i get this, but maybe with missile upgrades you won't even need to go into ultras, cause you gonna kill toss. I mean zergling melt vs. toss anyways and ultras are strong either way, looks like improving locust damage would help a lot.
No you won't kill toss with them even if they do an extra 2 damage. The toss should eventually get that critical amount of colossi where locusts don't really do anything. No matter what upgrades your locusts have. Trust me it doesn't make as much of a difference then you seem to think cause I used to think the same way but you will have to transition to kill the toss if he is playing correctly.
Hm, did you try Swarm Hosts with Infestors vs. Bio? At GSL HotS showmatches(or was it GSL, don't know, it was streamed there), Leenock played with Swarm Hosts and Infestors against MKP. I know they were just testing stuff, and it doesn't have to be viable, but he crushed MKP with ease that game. You can maybe even start with Infestors, and get like 4-5 of them, and then start adding Swarm Hosts to the army.
On February 02 2013 07:19 Ramiz1989 wrote: Hm, did you try Swarm Hosts with Infestors vs. Bio? At GSL HotS showmatches(or was it GSL, don't know, it was streamed there), Leenock played with Swarm Hosts and Infestors against MKP. I know they were just testing stuff, and it doesn't have to be viable, but he crushed MKP with ease that game. You can maybe even start with Infestors, and get like 4-5 of them, and then start adding Swarm Hosts to the army.
Hm I have not tried that yet I will try that next time I play a terran who goes bio :D
Yeah, exactly that. I mean, those Videos are pretty old, but I don't see why it shouldn't work. He committed to them quite heavily though(he had 30 at one point lol), but you don't really have to. You can make ~15, as that is the number that you usually use vs. Protoss, and go for Infestors, Lings and Banelings as support, while taking bases and tech to Ultras. Of course, this is all theory, but you can try it, solo Swarm Hosts can't do much because of mobility of Bio.
i had a 55 minute game where the enemy had 22 swarmhosts and 22 queens in the middle of this small map ... i had 10k 10k with protoss, 200 supply 3-3-3 carrier/tempest/voidray/colossi everything and had no chance to win ,... he later mixed in 30 corrupter to his hosts and won the game after 1 hour -_- i hate swarmhosts
On February 02 2013 17:17 CoR wrote: i had a 55 minute game where the enemy had 22 swarmhosts and 22 queens in the middle of this small map ... i had 10k 10k with protoss, 200 supply 3-3-3 carrier/tempest/voidray/colossi everything and had no chance to win ,... he later mixed in 30 corrupter to his hosts and won the game after 1 hour -_- i hate swarmhosts
Going to be honest no idea how that would work. Although tbh you should be going voidray/templar and that's it. Voids are what makes sky toss OP. Carrier/tempest is fightable. Next time go pure void/templar once it hits late game, trust me zerg army melts faster then butter in lava.
All right guys next 5 games of swarmhost action! This one features 4 zvps and 1 zvt verse a bio player! You will notice that verse the bio is a work in progress, I am trying to optimize the build so look forward to it getting more and more optimized. So far I am 1-3 doing this, but this one was where I made a modification in getting infestors first. still a work in progress .
On February 01 2013 23:09 Orzabal wrote: Always enjoying your replays Blade !
So are you fedup with the ground ball + viper style ? Or do you try some SH play to learn every aspect of the game ?
Well I was strugggling zvp really bad. So I started experimenting with swarmhosts and and found out their really good. Of course you don't want to open swarmhost vs 2 stargate voidray or anything and do mutalisks instead.
Swarmhost/muta are both fun strats that I have pretty good success with.
I was thinking about "the swarm host commitment" in general.
Dont you think make the SH a mutation for Hydralisk would be more interesting for the dynamic of the zerg race ? It would be more flexible, less "all-in". The composition of zerg army should be more varied and the strat overall, less readable by the enemie.
Just finished your ZvT SH vs. Bio replay. Of course, it wasn't the perfect showcase of Swarm Hosts vs. Bio, because it was just one game, but I must say that I am impressed how not so large number of them(You had 8-10) could make the difference and hold Bio, they controlled the Area pretty well together with Infestors. And later in the game, you only had 8, and they were making the difference in those engagements with Ultralisks. And with them, Widow Mines don't feel like huge problem. I like it.
On February 02 2013 21:54 Ramiz1989 wrote: Just finished your ZvT SH vs. Bio replay. Of course, it wasn't the perfect showcase of Swarm Hosts vs. Bio, because it was just one game, but I must say that I am impressed how not so large number of them(You had 8-10) could make the difference and hold Bio, they controlled the Area pretty well together with Infestors. And later in the game, you only had 8, and they were making the difference in those engagements with Ultralisks. And with them, Widow Mines don't feel like huge problem. I like it.
To be honest me to. I watched the replay and I have been struggling vs heavy tank play but the swarmhosts really made engaging it so much easier in every way possible.
Still has some work to be done on them in terms of using them since terran is very different with bio and their army is a lot more mobile then a protoss army. So getting used to it and using them correctly well take time and then having to deal with drops as well. Hopefully can have a better optimized version verse bio soon
Muta-ling-bane into ling-bane-hosts can be a deadly transition for terran.
1) Terran will waste minerals on anti-air defending 2) You always can snipe some tanks 3) You will slow enemy expansions 4) You can deal with drops 5) Switch to swarm hosts and start pressure
I think it may work, in theory of course, but you should try in practice too
On February 03 2013 04:19 Existor wrote: Muta-ling-bane into ling-bane-hosts can be a deadly transition for terran.
1) Terran will waste minerals on anti-air defending 2) You always can snipe some tanks 3) You will slow enemy expansions 4) You can deal with drops 5) Switch to swarm hosts and start pressure
I think it may work, in theory of course, but you should try in practice too
I did try muta/ling/bane into swarmhost. I figured in theory it would be good to but I kinda get stomped everytime. Swarmhosts come out a little to late and you can't get enough (have to get double upgrades + locusts upgrade) and yeah. Tried that don't recommend it.
Infestor on the other hand I like then adding in swarmhost.
I think that won't be hard, but the thing is, we are trying to make builds where SH work as pressure unit, but no all-in. That strategy is certainly all-in, and I think that it won't work in ZvT or ZvP. I think that this game need less all-ins, not more. :D
On February 03 2013 09:51 Ramiz1989 wrote: I think that won't be hard, but the thing is, we are trying to make builds where SH work as pressure unit, but no all-in. That strategy is certainly all-in, and I think that it won't work in ZvT or ZvP. I think that this game need less all-ins, not more. :D
This.
Until this thread showed up (Thanks Blade) pretty much the only opinions of Swarm Hosts you could find on the forums were either that they are useless unless massed, they are only viable as an all-in, or that other units is always a better choice. Finally someone has stepped up and proved that they can be used in standard play, can be used to hold off all sorts of pressure, are very mobile, and are very powerful offensively too. I am really enjoying the evolution of Swarm Host strategy.
@Blade. I feel like adding just 1-2 infestors (maybe also burrow if it fits) would make your vs Mech even stronger. Every time the Mech army starts to retreat from a Locust wave you could use just 1 fungal to lock down a small portion of the force. The Terran would be forced to either abandon those units or to engage the Locusts with his whole force. Thanks for the awesome thread!
Thanks for releasing these replays! They demonstrate that swarmhosts are useful in many different situations.
HDstarcraft recently cast your game against IM Seed. 30 minutes in you and another person took control of the game, so we weren't able to see the outcome. Can you release the full replay or say what happened after that point, if you and Seed did finish the game?
ah cool. I've been waiting for some vids because I don't know how to transition or what upgrades to get after picking a midgame toy...right now I just build stuff that don't make sense and die.
On February 04 2013 12:21 Discarder wrote: ah cool. I've been waiting for some vids because I don't know how to transition or what upgrades to get after picking a midgame toy...right now I just build stuff that don't make sense and die.
Well replays should be able to help you in that department.
Also I do plan on doing a couple youtube videos soon with these in action so stay tuned for that!
This one has by far the best games. The zvt ones I recommend all 3 especially the bio one on daybreak. That one was a crazy game. The 2 zvp's feature babyknight and Dbling. I have given up on swarmhosts zvz as I think their shit. I won once but lose most of the time when going them in zvz. So don't expect anymore zvz's.
zvt bio I am liking the swarmhosts for the most part but their definitely a lot harder to use. Requires really good multi tasking to deal with drops + him trying to sneak in and kill them. It's pretty tough but I think their viable.
On February 04 2013 18:02 Ramiz1989 wrote: I like units that are harder to use.
Btw, don't judge SH in ZvZ yet! You were saying that they are shit in ZvT vs. Bio too and that you gave up on them, and look how that turned out. ;D
We have to wait and see, I am pretty sure that there are certain timings where you can exploit them.
Well I am going to get my zerg practice partner to play with me so I can mess around with it more. I just dunno if their good or not yet, I feel like their shit xD.
But you are right I did say that about bio and i'm finding out I was wrong .
On February 09 2013 01:41 Foxxan wrote: so swarm work vs bio now? Swarm + masslings work?
You have any more replays?
I can upload some more. Yes I am finally winning Zvt a lot more with swarm hosts verse bio. Mech easy peasy lemon squeezy to. Vs toss I think some hydras are good with swarms and Zvt some banes.
On February 09 2013 09:48 Foxxan wrote: what do you think of hydras overall? And especially vs bio terran?
Hydras I feel have a place in zvp, zvt bio I do not like hydralisks at all. Late game I might add a few as anti-air to hit medivacs, but otherwise wont' make any.
zvt mech hydras are good, vs toss I think they are good as long as you have proper support. I personally think roach/hydra is a bad composition in zvp right now, but that is only my opinion that is the main reason i started focusing on swarmhost usage and I am very glad that I did.
The Zerglings swooping in everytime it looked like the slower Hosts were in trouble looked sick. I can't be the only one thinking "Siege Tank+Vultures."
Has anyone tried SH/queen contain with spines and spores? Like if you manage to make around 10 swarm hosts and the opponent hasn't IMMEDIATELY have the right unit composition to take them out, you can just start trading because it's in your favour. Then just start massing drones and build spine/spore. Queens transfuse and spread creep you slowly advance forward with locust and spine/spore. Add some infestor/corru if they go mass air. The reason this should work (at least in theory) is that when they first try to wipe the SH out and fail, they have to keep making more units to deal with them. You don't have to remake all the SH because they're not actually the ones fighting. This is where you start massing spines/spores. They're like high dps bulky units that don't take supply.
Saw this one game in antiga where zerg got the middle with SH, roaches and lings supporting. The game went on the protoss with 3 bases the zerg got maxed and floated over 4000 minerals at some point. I just thought what if that 4000 was in spines the game would prolly over?
EPT
.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8F6Lo.jpg)
