EPTRight now Zerg seems to be the center of attention and rightfully so. Even though in WoL, Zerg seems balanced, its play and watchability is crap. The infestor is such a high versatility unit that it creates a very boring game. Blizzard needs to fix infestor versatility by nerfing it then start buffing hydralisks and ultralisks
Beta Balance Update #10 - Page 89
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zJayy962
1363 Posts
Right now Zerg seems to be the center of attention and rightfully so. Even though in WoL, Zerg seems balanced, its play and watchability is crap. The infestor is such a high versatility unit that it creates a very boring game. Blizzard needs to fix infestor versatility by nerfing it then start buffing hydralisks and ultralisks | ||
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Dynamitekid
United States55 Posts
SC1: marines: 40 hp, DPS: 6.2 (10.6 with stim) SC2: marines: 45 hp (55 hp with shield upgrade), DPS: about 7 ( about 11 with stim) SC1: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 9.6 (14 with adrenaline upgrade) SC2: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 7 ( 11 with adrenaline upgrade). Now i know some of you are thinking Starcraft 2 you can pump out much more units and put more units in control group. Well Terran can do that as well in a way. Plus in Starcraft 2 marines get free range upgrade. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
2. Oracle's pulse beam changed to a AOE damage spell that can only cast on itself. Enemy units near the oracle will take 7 damage per second. Kinda like Irradiate of Science Vessel. It's the spell that really make micro matter. And to be honest, current Protoss air has no AOE.. 3. Viper's blinding cloud changed to reducing attack range of ground units by 7. So tank is not completely useless (it will have a range of 6), and other units that have range less than 7 will have only melee range (just like the current blinding cloud). 4. Widow mine damage nerfed but changed to 1 supply. In this way, you will have widow mines, which means that you can control more areas and choke points, and won't cost you a huge amount of supply like the current ones do. 5. Hellbat movement speed changed to 2.81 (the same as DT and Warhound). | ||
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musai
Canada552 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:00 Dynamitekid wrote: Zerglings are going to be useless in ZvT with the new +5 healing buff. Seriously, wtf is wrong with blizzard. Lets compare marines and lings in sc1 and sc2. SC1: marines: 40 hp, DPS: 6.2 (10.6 with stim) SC2: marines: 45 hp (55 hp with shield upgrade), DPS: about 7 ( about 11 with stim) SC1: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 9.6 (14 with adrenaline upgrade) SC2: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 7 ( 11 with adrenaline upgrade). Now i know some of you are thinking Starcraft 2 you can pump out much more units and put more units in control group. Well Terran can do that as well in a way. Plus in Starcraft 2 marines get free range upgrade. so a T1 unit is unless against T1 + T2 units with a T3+ upgrade, why are you using pure lings again? | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On January 04 2013 15:21 musai wrote: so a T1 unit is unless against T1 + T2 units with a T3+ upgrade, why are you using pure lings again? Sorry Mr. Terran but the truth is that zerglings or roaches are the only thing they can mass now. Roaches suck. Now zerglings suck. What in the hell is zerg supposed to do? Broods? yeah because with the new fungal + HSM that's going to work. Everyone has always had an issue with efficiency of marines, we've just gotten over it. | ||
Falling
Canada11363 Posts
If someone wants to take a giant dump on BW it would be pretty easy to do. Watch: you celebrate the reaver as this great unit when it was programmed so poorly that its scarabs would often simply not hit the target, adding a bit of randomness that furthers no sensible aim at all. Whoever designed the reaver should be fired. It is the paradigm case of poor design and that's a fact. OK, is it a fact? No, of course not, because someone's asserting something as truth does not make it so. Now apply this important lesson to everything you write and say from now on and everyone will be better off. It's actually not random. The scarab is on a timer and the scarab itself is an object that must fit through buildings to hit it's target. If it cannot go through it must go around. If it takes too long too go around, the scarab's timer will make it dud. What this means is as a Terran, you could actually build your base in such a way to dance your workers away from incoming scarabs. Buildings had different spaces in between and so building placement had a lot of though for defensive purposes (anti-zealot supply depots come to mind.) But the same could be done for scarabs. If you ran your workers away you could run the timer out, but if you ran perpendicular the scarabs would catch up and explode. So while much of this was probably not intentional, it is actually very good design wise because there are so many options and counter options for both sides. If you know the scarab behaviour attackers and defenders can make moves and counter moves to account for it. It's not so simple as "it's random" and "it's poor design" | ||
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Glorfindel21
France51 Posts
So while much of this was probably not intentional, it is actually very good design wise because there are so many options and counter options for both sides. If you know the scarab behaviour attackers and defenders can make moves and counter moves to account for it. So your point is that bad design can turn good. Then what the hell are we doing here (sincerely) bashing something that is simply in test-phase right now ? I call it irony, that is, philosophy. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 04 2013 15:21 musai wrote: so a T1 unit is unless against T1 + T2 units with a T3+ upgrade, why are you using pure lings again? lol I just want to say this is awful logic. The marine is a tier 1 unit that gets better then any other tier 1 unit the longer the game goes on. | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On January 04 2013 19:14 blade55555 wrote: lol I just want to say this is awful logic. The marine is a tier 1 unit that gets better then any other tier 1 unit the longer the game goes on. It gets better than any Tier one unit to a certain point in the game and only when it is used properly. I also like how he talks about the units that don't do well anymore and completely ignores the unit that has been given a massive buff in hots, the ultralisk. Marines were already pretty bad vs ultras but now that ultras got a significant damage buff against them they are damn near useless unless zerg has a terrible engagement. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
And to be honest, current Protoss air has no AOE.. To be honest, no race has air AOE, so why should toss be special? Muta is at best pseudo-AOE, it barely scales with amount of enemy units in an area. | ||
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Glorfindel21
France51 Posts
It gets better than any Tier one unit to a certain point in the game and only when it is used properly. I also like how he talks about the units that don't do well anymore and completely ignores the unit that has been given a massive buff in hots, the ultralisk. Marines were already pretty bad vs ultras but now that ultras got a significant damage buff against them they are damn near useless unless zerg has a terrible engagement. Marines are the backbone dps of every mobile terran army. Have you ever seen a zerg keeping on 50% zergling as a T3 army ? No If marines are so good over time, it's because they have to, unless you can explain me on which maps terrans have time to get BC/full raven (metropolis excluded) without having godly control ? EDIT : so my point is the quote is right ! | ||
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
On January 04 2013 19:02 Glorfindel21 wrote: So your point is that bad design can turn good. Then what the hell are we doing here (sincerely) bashing something that is simply in test-phase right now ? I call it irony, that is, philosophy. The reaver was a tremendously well designed unit which got slightly dumber due to a flaw in the game engine. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work in reverse, you don't get magic bugs in your game engine that somehow transform all your poorly designed units into awesome, micro intensive badass units. The reaver is virtually immobile, has an aoe attack which is telegraphed and dodgeable, requires constant attention and micro to use well, needs to spend money on each shot and, due to the bw engine, has buggy attacks. The colossus is a mobile 1a unit that walks around herp derping out lasers and, due to the sc2 engine... walks around herp derping out lasers. See the difference? | ||
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baba1
Canada355 Posts
On January 04 2013 19:32 Fragile51 wrote: It gets better than any Tier one unit to a certain point in the game and only when it is used properly. I also like how he talks about the units that don't do well anymore and completely ignores the unit that has been given a massive buff in hots, the ultralisk. Marines were already pretty bad vs ultras but now that ultras got a significant damage buff against them they are damn near useless unless zerg has a terrible engagement. Ultralisk should destroy marines. That's how it should always have been. And marines are not useless wtf... you can get them 2-3 min in the game. Ultralisks takes about 15. That should be a big enough window for marines to do something usefull. | ||
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baba1
Canada355 Posts
On January 05 2013 02:02 Zahir wrote: The reaver was a tremendously well designed unit which got slightly dumber due to a flaw in the game engine. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work in reverse, you don't get magic bugs in your game engine that somehow transform all your poorly designed units into awesome, micro intensive badass units. The reaver is virtually immobile, has an aoe attack which is telegraphed and dodgeable, requires constant attention and micro to use well, needs to spend money on each shot and, due to the bw engine, has buggy attacks. The colossus is a mobile 1a unit that walks around herp derping out lasers and, due to the sc2 engine... walks around herp derping out lasers. See the difference? That's pretty accurate imo. The fast fire rate of the colo is what makes it so 1a Make colo attacks hit harder and slower and we might have something interesting. Also it's way to mobile for such a powerful unit. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:00 Dynamitekid wrote: Zerglings are going to be useless in ZvT with the new +5 healing buff. Seriously, wtf is wrong with blizzard. Lets compare marines and lings in sc1 and sc2. SC1: marines: 40 hp, DPS: 6.2 (10.6 with stim) SC2: marines: 45 hp (55 hp with shield upgrade), DPS: about 7 ( about 11 with stim) SC1: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 9.6 (14 with adrenaline upgrade) SC2: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 7 ( 11 with adrenaline upgrade). Now i know some of you are thinking Starcraft 2 you can pump out much more units and put more units in control group. Well Terran can do that as well in a way. Plus in Starcraft 2 marines get free range upgrade. I'd be more worried about BF hellbats if I was a mass ling user in ZvT. But, this comparison is one of the most pointless I've ever seen. Just pointing out unit DPS in games where units behave completely differently. I shouldn't have to tell you that these things are not comparable in any way or form. | ||
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Glorfindel21
France51 Posts
The reaver was a tremendously well designed unit which got slightly dumber due to a flaw in the game engine. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't work in reverse, you don't get magic bugs in your game engine that somehow transform all your poorly designed units into awesome, micro intensive badass units. The reaver was so awesome you admire it IN COMBINATION with the shuttle. I don't think that developpers had that in mind when they released the unit. The reaver is virtually immobile, has an aoe attack which is telegraphed and dodgeable, requires constant attention and micro to use well, needs to spend money on each shot and, due to the bw engine, has buggy attacks. The colossus is a mobile 1a unit that walks around herp derping out lasers and, due to the sc2 engine... walks around herp derping out lasers. Here we go again. The infamous "every unit should be copied in design in the exact same place where it was from BW". The dodgeable shot exists in sc2 : it's the seeker missile. For the fact that it costs mineral and no energy, well, the concept is not quite original in itself, even in BW (spidermine). Even if i like the concept (making it cost mineral), i don't think this withdraws THAT much from SC2 I don't think starcraft 2 needs less APM to be played, it's simply that APM is invested in other ways, in mechanics that did not exist in BW (creep-spread for example). | ||
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VPVanek
Canada238 Posts
As of right now, I think it heavily favours protoss in all stages of the M/U. | ||
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Nizes
Finland27 Posts
On January 05 2013 02:17 baba1 wrote: That's pretty accurate imo. The fast fire rate of the colo is what makes it so 1a Make colo attacks hit harder and slower and we might have something interesting. Also it's way to mobile for such a powerful unit. I think you forgot that the way Colossus attacks also punishes good postioning and forming concaves. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On January 04 2013 12:00 Dynamitekid wrote: Zerglings are going to be useless in ZvT with the new +5 healing buff. Seriously, wtf is wrong with blizzard. Lets compare marines and lings in sc1 and sc2. SC1: marines: 40 hp, DPS: 6.2 (10.6 with stim) SC2: marines: 45 hp (55 hp with shield upgrade), DPS: about 7 ( about 11 with stim) SC1: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 9.6 (14 with adrenaline upgrade) SC2: Zerglin: 35hp, DPS: about 7 ( 11 with adrenaline upgrade). Now i know some of you are thinking Starcraft 2 you can pump out much more units and put more units in control group. Well Terran can do that as well in a way. Plus in Starcraft 2 marines get free range upgrade. As a toss player that played broodwar, don't forget speed please ^^ At SC2 beta we all thought zerglings were OP cause of the surround capacity. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
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