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Can all you whiny turds please realize that these patches ARE NOT:
blizzards next tiny step towards the perfect sc2
but they ARE:
pushing selected units over some edge, so you can get data to see where they finally need to be
Blizzard learned their lesson from WOL beta and onwards where they were trying to put units in the right place balance wise, and by doing that, changed their designed roles, and created imbalancable overlaps.
with that said. Fuck this fungal shit. Fuck zerg in general. I don't want fungal to get balanced, i hate the spell on such a massable unit. Ofc all units are massable for Z, that's why they can't have nice things. Really, it's a huge mistake to give Z a massable caster. The viper is great, it's a flying inverted defiler, close enough. Getting tens of them are completely useless against all serious composistions. The other massable(as in easily obtainable infrastructure) casters, ghosts and HT, has needed to be nerfed into the ground as having their previously extremely strong spells en masse is just too strong. The same unnerfed spells on units that you cannot get a thousand off, no problem.
Z can mass any unit; thus they can not have "combat casters". The infestor belongs nerfed into the ground along with it's pals, ghost and HT.
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What blizzard should do, is for one patch, just remove fungal entirely and replace it with some kind of support spell, like an aoe stim, or an aoe that caused your units attacks to slow the target. Something to make infesters a support caster, rather then a unit that kills entire armies.
This would primarily break up inferster broodlord synergy as well as provide a disincentive to mass infesters.
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Im sorry but this patch is ridiculous...there was a freaking reason that they nerved FG...what is Blizz thinking? Do they think the data they gathered was bogus and now buffed infestors will not cause the very same problems they did before? that makes no sense at all.
and by the way.....im i the onlyone who is astonished that they never buffed the movement speed of hightemps? why do ghosts and inf have 2.2x and temps 1.8 ? i think high temps are the bane of every fast armie movement for toss....its sort of the immobilizing treat the siegetank is for terrans. or im i just plain wrong?
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Well hopefully, at least part of this change will be reverted in the next patch.
It's just distressing that Blizz is wasting time on the same units when we only have till March.
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Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails.
Edit: Also, was any action taken against the mod who overstepped? Really, really shady thing to do.
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Infestor
Fungal Growth
Range increased from 8 to 10.
Missile speed increased from 10 to 15.
Goodbye Blizzard, I'll go lol.
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Russian Federation81 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails.
Beta is not there to impress anyone. Beta is there to test different things and find the best possible balance between them. All the crying going on in this thread is stupid and won't affect HotS sales in any way. If you can't handle following the balancing process then I suggest you simply stick to WoL until march.
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On December 19 2012 18:34 Atthasit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails. Beta is not there to impress anyone. Beta is there to test different things and find the best possible balance between them. All the crying going on in this thread is stupid and won't affect HotS sales in any way. If you can't handle following the balancing process then I suggest you simply stick to WoL until march.
And where is the exact point of buffing Fungal again (Fungal range > marine sight range)? Please light my dumb (zerg playing) mind. I don't get the point of doing this in beta except sending a message: "Hello, this is blizzard. We made fungal dodgeable. So now, you won't see the infestors. Have fun, little marine."
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Oh, wow. Fungal now outranges the marine sight range. WHACK, literally never knew what hit you.
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On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails.
Edit: Also, was any action taken against the mod who overstepped? Really, really shady thing to do.
Thats just wrong, sorry. 95% of the buyers don´t care at all about beta or balance because a lot of them never even think about the multiplayer.
And at the end its a Beta, yes we can discuss and complain about it but its better to do stupid things now then at release.
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nvm I shall have faith and patience. xD
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On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails.
Edit: Also, was any action taken against the mod who overstepped? Really, really shady thing to do.
Actually i am fairly sure the number of potential buyers will stay almost unchanged. Never underesstemate the silent majority.
Besides they don't need to have a reason. Wow is going to make over 5 times the income they could expect from HOTS every year at the current numbers of subscripers. That is where they got their cashcow. SC2 and Diablo is really just a hobby. They don't got any financial reasons for caring about those games.
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Russian Federation81 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:37 boxerfred wrote:
And where is the exact point of buffing Fungal again (Fungal range > marine sight range)? Please light my dumb (zerg playing) mind. I don't get the point of doing this in beta except sending a message: "Hello, this is blizzard. We made fungal dodgeable. So now, you won't see the infestors. Have fun, little marine."
You can't seriously suggest this is exactly what blizzard are trying to tell us, can you? Also you shouldn't ask ME or anyone else HERE what are they trying to achieve. They're obviously doing it for a reason, not just because someone in the balancing team decided overnight that he wants to screw with terrans for the sake of it. Personally I believe they're trying to get rid of muta domination in ZvZ matchup. Are they doing it wrong? Maybe. Is this final? I'm sure as hell it's not. But they have to test it. Once again, if you can't handle the process, just buy the game when it's out and THEN blame them for whatever reasons you can come up with. But not until then.
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They don't got any financial reasons for caring about those games.
But they should care. Blizz is having a kind of very good reputation on behalf of pushing e-sports to the next level.
To keep that reputation, David Kim should be replaced. I think that changing the type of fungal to a bullet (which really makes it dodgeable) is a great thing to re-establish broken ZvX matchups. Maybe also reduce the damage. But not increasing range. I am still not sure if Blizz wants to troll the community - I can't believe they are that stupid.
Edit:
Where do you see "Muta domination" on ZvZ? I see 6-8 Mutas harrassing for about 2-5 minutes, then mass roach/hydra/infestor battles. I'm even not seeing mass mutas vs protoss anymore, though it's hard to counter without a second stargate. So what are you saying?
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On December 19 2012 18:34 Atthasit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails. Beta is not there to impress anyone. Beta is there to test different things and find the best possible balance between them. All the crying going on in this thread is stupid and won't affect HotS sales in any way. If you can't handle following the balancing process then I suggest you simply stick to WoL until march.
what balancing proces? Buffing the unit everybody hates is really not a very good proces.
On the other hand buffing mech tvp is what most people want, and yet they just made widow mines useless vs protoss.
I say I am getting closer and closer to cancelling my preorder.
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On December 19 2012 18:40 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails.
Edit: Also, was any action taken against the mod who overstepped? Really, really shady thing to do. Thats just wrong, sorry. 95% of the buyers don´t care at all about beta or balance because a lot of them never even think about the multiplayer. And at the end its a Beta, yes we can discuss and complain about it but its better to do stupid things now then at release.
That might be the case for a new game, but hots is an extension and I reckon the majority of people who will buy it have a decent idea about the state of the game.
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Beta is not for "figureing out balance issues". You dont balance a game in 3 months or so. Beta is for finding bugs, for fixing small things. Not for "Huh, let's try stuff that completely switches the game" - but Blizz does (Warhound in, warhound out, massive nerfs, massive buffs...). I am probably going to cancel pre-order too, if Blizzard continues to ruin the game.
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Russian Federation81 Posts
On December 19 2012 18:47 boxerfred wrote:
Where do you see "Muta domination" on ZvZ? I see 6-8 Mutas harrassing for about 2-5 minutes, then mass roach/hydra/infestor battles. I'm even not seeing mass mutas vs protoss anymore, though it's hard to counter without a second stargate. So what are you saying?
Mutas against protoss is a joke. 5 reactive phoenixes kill infinite amount of mutas, what are you even talking about.
I didn't mean mass muta, I meant that players now are forced to open muta in ZvZ, because muta is the only thing that counters muta. Hydras don't work against mutas, range 8 slow projectile didn't either. People used to have a choice in ZvZ, now they don't. Blizz are giving us our choice back. Be grateful.
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On December 19 2012 18:34 Atthasit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 18:28 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Does Blizzard not realize that a huge portion of their potential buyers are watching this very closely, and almost unanimously hate the state of WoL right now? They are so damn worried about not making BW 2.0....might I suggest that they also get as far away from WoL 2.0 as possible? Blizzard needs to do better in this beta, end of story.
People are watching. If this beta fails, HotS fails. Beta is not there to impress anyone. Beta is there to test different things and find the best possible balance between them. All the crying going on in this thread is stupid and won't affect HotS sales in any way. If you can't handle following the balancing process then I suggest you simply stick to WoL until march.
In what way does discussing and evaluating balance, design, and recent changes in a patch thread equate to "not handling the process"? Anything involving Infestor-centered Zerg is bad design, and it's what's ruining WoL right now. I can't exactly go back to a game that I currently hate, either. I had hopes for HotS, but if it ends up looking like WoL, I'll be pursuing my other games and leaving SC2 for good. I don't think I'm the only one.
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Without wishing to offend - why are so many of us throwing an epileptic Chicken Little based on changes that are:
1. Thus far untested
2. Tentative
Just like the previous N patches have been? What happened to learning? Basic pattern-recognition, even? Changes get made, ideas get tried, stuff that doesn't work gets dialed back or forward or axed entirely. How many times does that cycle need to repeat before we stop acting like Blizzard just pissed on the one tray of chips we're ever going to get to eat?
Is the fungal change actually bad? How many of those flipping tables in the thread have actually logged in, thrown fifty games at the issue, and established that two extra range and a faster projectile is bad for the game? Or is it just that any change that isn't a further nerf to fungal is auto-wrong?
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EPT
