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United States4883 Posts
On December 15 2012 01:39 avilo wrote:
I don't think you can go mech reliably without siege tanks (you need the splash) because a Protoss that actually knows what they're doing is going to build zero zealots and go pure blink stalker or chargelot/archon/immortal into tech switches.
Just thought I'd point out this little bit of consistency error in your post. But yes, you're right lol.
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On December 15 2012 08:31 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 01:39 avilo wrote:
I don't think you can go mech reliably without siege tanks (you need the splash) because a Protoss that actually knows what they're doing is going to build zero zealots and go pure blink stalker or chargelot/archon/immortal into tech switches.
Just thought I'd point out this little bit of consistency error in your post. But yes, you're right lol.
zero zealot and pure blink stalker OR chargelot/archon/immortal.
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On December 15 2012 06:57 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 06:35 avilo wrote:
Well, just played some mech TvP games...some similar to what you're trying pookie, but i get demolished by people that actually build armies lol. Immortal/archon/zealot.
Played a guy that failed a 4 gate, and I tried to punish him with 2 base mech and somehow he holds it off...lol. The funny thing is I made tanks with siege off 2 facts, I think if i'd just made pure hellions off 3-4 factories i may have actually won LOL. The reason that's sad when you think about it is because it shows just how bad tanks are that someone can fail a 4 gate, and you're actually punished for building tanks and can't punish them back.
But if you just mass herrion it might actually be better than making any tanks at all...so counter intuitive that tanks suck this badly.
Played another game, and thors even without energy bar get demolished hardcore once there's enough immortals + other stuff.
I've just about given up on playing mech TvP. If even 1 warp prism gets thru to your base you lose the game because you can't send back half your army to deal with an infinite sized army being warped into your base. And if you move out of position even once, tanks are so bad against immortals that you can't even hold a position with 10 tanks already in siege mode - protoss just 1A's into you and laughs and you are left wondering "what the fuck did i do wrong?"
The buff then nerf to the armory split upgrades made it even worse because any time you build vikings just as before...you have 0/3 vikings vs 3/3/3 protoss ground. Which is just inherently punishing you for even attempting mech. I like this part very much. As i see it, the biggest problem in Mech TvP right now is that it is very unforgiving if Terran is making even the slightest mistake. Protoss on the other hand can make more mistakes and still manage to stabilize.
Arbiters weren't forgiving either, but at least we had spider mines and cheaper turrets. Turrets, everywhere 
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On December 14 2012 06:38 Acritter wrote:
Kind of sad to say, but tankless mech isn't mech. It's just slower bio with factory upgrades and Widow Mines, and if this is the only way to have your factory units be viable, then Blizzard has seriously messed up.
On December 14 2012 06:53 Sissors wrote:
The hellbat flag has nothing to do with it, the tankless part is the reason it isnt mech. When people talk about mech they generally mean the positional play only inherent to tanks in SC2. So not a significant part of the army tanks, no mech.
This would then be factory play, also fine, nothing wrong with it, but it is not what is meant with mech.
it's still mech. you have to invest in mech upgrades at an armory. it's tankless mech, if it was just called mech then tanks would presumably be included.
going to watch the replays.
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On December 15 2012 10:38 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:38 Acritter wrote:
Kind of sad to say, but tankless mech isn't mech. It's just slower bio with factory upgrades and Widow Mines, and if this is the only way to have your factory units be viable, then Blizzard has seriously messed up. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:53 Sissors wrote:
The hellbat flag has nothing to do with it, the tankless part is the reason it isnt mech. When people talk about mech they generally mean the positional play only inherent to tanks in SC2. So not a significant part of the army tanks, no mech.
This would then be factory play, also fine, nothing wrong with it, but it is not what is meant with mech. it's still mech. you have to invest in mech upgrades at an armory. it's tankless mech, if it was just called mech then tanks would presumably be included. going to watch the replays.
Yes it seems those guys have given up, they tried to turn this into a "why tanks suck in SC2" QQ thread and the rest of us weren't having it. There are already threads for that stuff open right now.
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How can it be mech without 1) using tanks 2) happening in BW?
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On December 15 2012 02:47 MattBarry wrote:
Give the tank a shield piercing passive so it does 50 damage to shields like BW tank. Make it do like 35 to hardened shields so immortals can still deal with mass tanks
I must agree here. Make tanks deal 3.5x more vs immortals so immortals can still handle tanks. lol.
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On December 15 2012 12:48 NeMeSiS24 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 02:47 MattBarry wrote:
Give the tank a shield piercing passive so it does 50 damage to shields like BW tank. Make it do like 35 to hardened shields so immortals can still deal with mass tanks I must agree here. Make tanks deal 3.5x more vs immortals so immortals can still handle tanks. lol.
just nerf the immortal's hardened shield then... it's only really doing much against tanks and occasionally ultralisks anyway.
For example hardened shield could just be removed but immortals be given around 30 more hitpoints, they would be roughly the same against roaches, stalkers, marine/marauder, ling/ultra etc. but would be weaker against tanks especially.
As for this tankless style, I think it works pretty well now. Banshee/thor/hellbat is quite a potent combination. I still think you need a few tanks because tanks are the safest way to open if you want to go mech and without them blink play can screw you up.
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On December 15 2012 08:31 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 01:39 avilo wrote:
I don't think you can go mech reliably without siege tanks (you need the splash) because a Protoss that actually knows what they're doing is going to build zero zealots and go pure blink stalker or chargelot/archon/immortal into tech switches.
Just thought I'd point out this little bit of consistency error in your post. But yes, you're right lol.
There's points of time in games where you build pure stalker vs mech. Later on you get chargelots etc.
On December 15 2012 08:40 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 08:31 SC2John wrote:On December 15 2012 01:39 avilo wrote:
I don't think you can go mech reliably without siege tanks (you need the splash) because a Protoss that actually knows what they're doing is going to build zero zealots and go pure blink stalker or chargelot/archon/immortal into tech switches.
Just thought I'd point out this little bit of consistency error in your post. But yes, you're right lol. zero zealot and pure blink stalker OR chargelot/archon/immortal.
Yes, that.
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On December 15 2012 13:21 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:48 NeMeSiS24 wrote:On December 15 2012 02:47 MattBarry wrote:
Give the tank a shield piercing passive so it does 50 damage to shields like BW tank. Make it do like 35 to hardened shields so immortals can still deal with mass tanks I must agree here. Make tanks deal 3.5x more vs immortals so immortals can still handle tanks. lol. just nerf the immortal's hardened shield then... it's only really doing much against tanks and occasionally ultralisks anyway. For example hardened shield could just be removed but immortals be given around 30 more hitpoints, they would be roughly the same against roaches, stalkers, marine/marauder, ling/ultra etc. but would be weaker against tanks especially. As for this tankless style, I think it works pretty well now. Banshee/thor/hellbat is quite a potent combination. I still think you need a few tanks because tanks are the safest way to open if you want to go mech and without them blink play can screw you up.
I have a replay against blink stalkers Thors deal with them well enough, i actually have tried opening tanks and a blink MSC opening just rolls over it really bad because tanks take the same amount of time to build as thors but are far less deadly in small numbers. As i told Avilo the thor opening is why i dont die before the 12 minute mark, ever.
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On December 15 2012 19:32 Pookie Monster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:21 Markwerf wrote:On December 15 2012 12:48 NeMeSiS24 wrote:On December 15 2012 02:47 MattBarry wrote:
Give the tank a shield piercing passive so it does 50 damage to shields like BW tank. Make it do like 35 to hardened shields so immortals can still deal with mass tanks I must agree here. Make tanks deal 3.5x more vs immortals so immortals can still handle tanks. lol. just nerf the immortal's hardened shield then... it's only really doing much against tanks and occasionally ultralisks anyway. For example hardened shield could just be removed but immortals be given around 30 more hitpoints, they would be roughly the same against roaches, stalkers, marine/marauder, ling/ultra etc. but would be weaker against tanks especially. As for this tankless style, I think it works pretty well now. Banshee/thor/hellbat is quite a potent combination. I still think you need a few tanks because tanks are the safest way to open if you want to go mech and without them blink play can screw you up. I have a replay against blink stalkers Thors deal with them well enough, i actually have tried opening tanks and a blink MSC opening just rolls over it really bad because tanks take the same amount of time to build as thors but are far less deadly in small numbers. As i told Avilo the thor opening is why i dont die before the 12 minute mark, ever.
As a protoss player, I am way more scared of Thors than tanks. Tanks are the thing that makes me back off or rethink my attack. Thors just scare the crap out of me because a bad engagement will ruin me. The mass repair, high DPS vs all units and the fact that they outrange most protoss units makes them really scare.
I don't know where tanks fit in against protoss right now. I think they can be scary as shit, but not in an open field and not massed. But it feels like there is a very specific number of tanks that will improve any mech build. Much like colossi are great in vs Bio, but the protoss is best only getting 3-4. There has to be a number that makes the AOE damage worth it in the back of a factory based army.
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some of the replays arent working anymore.
the last 5 of the OP post
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On December 16 2012 03:02 Tppz! wrote:
some of the replays arent working anymore.
the last 5 of the OP post
The top 5 are the same relays as the bottom five just put them on different sites.
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EPT
