• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:29
CEST 18:29
KST 01:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20258Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 793 users

Beta Balance Update #9 - Page 32

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
824 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 42 Next All
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
December 14 2012 03:04 GMT
#621
On December 13 2012 08:15 templar rage wrote:
Toss are gonna be pretty much forced to open SG from now on in PvZ I think. Storm as a counter isn't really going to do a great job since mutas regen so quick now. I can eat a full duration storm, fly away for a minute, and come back almost full health. And that's just a full duration storm, which shouldn't happen at all really. More likely scenario is I eat like 30-40 damage and come back in 20s to the same effect.

And I think ZvZ was already going towards the BW style of muta/ling all day every day with the FG projectile. It's so fucking hard to hit mutas now, and it won't even do as much as before now.


This


User was warned for this post
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
December 14 2012 03:17 GMT
#622
On December 14 2012 11:46 Dynamitekid wrote:
I am not to happy with the way this game is going. Every unit and their mother has an ability.


for sure. they should not be messing with the mutalisk at all. if your game has different 'rules' for every single unit, it's a mark of weak design. blizzard's team is currently attempting to fix one thing (mines shutting down muta in tvz) by breaking something else (buffing muta health, to the detriment of pvz and zvz).

the tempest's massive bonuses, rendering it a niche unit... terran air/mech armor being merged but not weapons... these are not intuitive changes. they're complex, which is off putting to casuals and just... reeks of messy, un thought out game design.

at least HoTS doesnt feel completely stagnant anymore, blizz did good by shaking things up in patch 8, but now i think they just need to slow down a bit and retool all those hasty changes... like, put the time and effort in to make stuff worthy of a final release. Changing ravens, mines, ultras, oracles etc was a good idea, now they just need to get them done RIGHT.
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
December 14 2012 03:28 GMT
#623
On December 14 2012 11:46 Dynamitekid wrote:
I am not to happy with the way this game is going. Every unit and their mother has an ability.


It's rather odd. Patch 8 was arguably one of the best, and Patch 9 is rather terrible.
imEnex
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada500 Posts
December 14 2012 03:35 GMT
#624
ZvZ will be similar to what the ZvZ in broodwar was. I excited for this change because it requires more multitasking which results in more APM.

Better players will now have an advantage. HoTS will truly determine the gosu players to less-gosu players
Program yourself to Success
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 03:46:01
December 14 2012 03:37 GMT
#625
As someone that can't micro at all, I kind of like that SC 2 has a crazy amount of abilities. I think it helps offset the lowering of skill needed in other areas. I'm not the biggest fan of spells/abilities that don't require any clicking, but I'm not sure how much that bothers me. P vs T is crazy. Too many hotkeys are needed. Phoenixes, oracles, templars, sentries, and the mothership core should all have their own hotkey. God forbid you got blink and you also need to find a way to micro that. If only it were as hard as Terran. 90% of units just requiring stim, and they even put medivacs in the same control group. Terran micro being insane, the biggest perpetuated myth. I'm afraid they might not be able to keep it up.

It would perhaps be nice if the "select all army" key could be set to w/e you wanted, be it remaining as is or simply used as another hotkey for the infinite number of units with spells.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
December 14 2012 03:39 GMT
#626
On December 14 2012 12:35 imEnex wrote:
ZvZ will be similar to what the ZvZ in broodwar was. I excited for this change because it requires more multitasking which results in more APM.

Better players will now have an advantage. HoTS will truly determine the gosu players to less-gosu players

However, I wish there was a way for a player with fewer mutas but better micro to beat a player with more mutas but inferior micro. BW had stacking mechanics and Scourge, but I wonder what could be tweaked in SC2 to achieve this.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
SolidZeal
Profile Joined October 2010
United States393 Posts
December 14 2012 03:51 GMT
#627
Actually, I kind of like the terran armory nerf. I know in a way it seems un-intuitive, but I like how it's giving a ground dominance vs air dominance aspect to the way you upgrade your tech. If you go Bio in earlygame, then you when you start to transition into late game, you can choose: am I going ground superiority with mech weapons, or do I get air superiority with air weapons?
At least the armor upg. makes switches between air and mech easier.

In the clearing stands a boxer and a figher by his trade
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
December 14 2012 04:24 GMT
#628
There's no way the tempest stays this way 80/85/90/95 damage is way too high especially for 15 range even if its just against massive.
mongoose22
Profile Joined July 2012
174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 04:33:35
December 14 2012 04:33 GMT
#629
80 massive air damage on the Tempest? Who's ever going to make Battlecruisers or Carriers against a Protoss opponent now (not that people did before, but still)? Methinks Blizzard seems to like the new toy a little too much.
ref4
Profile Joined March 2012
2933 Posts
December 14 2012 04:45 GMT
#630
argh Mutalisks are going to be even more difficult to deal with. 2-3 Turrets aren't enough when you have like 15-20 mutas, now you need like 2-3 widow mines per mineral line + dot the outer radius with turrets.
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 06:46:26
December 14 2012 06:44 GMT
#631
I'd like to see some changes made to

Battlecruiers - not as scary late game, give them an ability like warp drive in battlestar galactica (like stalker blink but slower), that would look really cool, and increase their damage output

Nydus - make this more HP so that it can withstand worker attacks, and less resource requirement.

Carriers - buff this also so we see more carrier play

Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
December 14 2012 06:55 GMT
#632
On December 14 2012 12:28 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:46 Dynamitekid wrote:
I am not to happy with the way this game is going. Every unit and their mother has an ability.


It's rather odd. Patch 8 was arguably one of the best, and Patch 9 is rather terrible.


Patch 9 was probably to balance the stuff they put in Patch 8.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
December 14 2012 07:25 GMT
#633
On December 14 2012 15:44 dgwow wrote:
I'd like to see some changes made to

Battlecruiers - not as scary late game, give them an ability like warp drive in battlestar galactica (like stalker blink but slower), that would look really cool, and increase their damage output

Nydus - make this more HP so that it can withstand worker attacks, and less resource requirement.

Carriers - buff this also so we see more carrier play



Buffing nydus would suck. Nydus is already a gigantic gimmick that is too similar to drops, making it too strong would make all ins really dumb.
Sweetfrost
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden211 Posts
December 14 2012 07:50 GMT
#634
I'm glad they are buffing the mutas so we can see more variance in zerg play, but damn.. it's going to be a bitch to deal with.
Before practice, we ate Kimchi soup made my MMA. His cooking has made me so depressed that I think we may lose GSTL." -Miya
Sweetfrost
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden211 Posts
December 14 2012 07:55 GMT
#635
On December 13 2012 07:42 Kenny_oro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Terran

Medivac
Caduceus Reactor
The Medivac’s healing beam now changes color once the Caduceus Reactor upgrade is complete.


Only one question - What color is it?? :D


Hopefully a cool blue colour! :D Like neon blue or something!
Before practice, we ate Kimchi soup made my MMA. His cooking has made me so depressed that I think we may lose GSTL." -Miya
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 14 2012 08:07 GMT
#636
On December 14 2012 15:44 dgwow wrote:
I'd like to see some changes made to

Battlecruiers - not as scary late game, give them an ability like warp drive in battlestar galactica (like stalker blink but slower), that would look really cool, and increase their damage output

Nydus - make this more HP so that it can withstand worker attacks, and less resource requirement.

Carriers - buff this also so we see more carrier play



The carrier was already buffed secretly in the last patch and is actually a lot stronger now. Voidray/carrier/tempest/templar will kill any army and is probably the strongest composition in hots at least in pvz. If zerg lets a toss get that army the zerg will never kill it.

When I think of something else, something will go here
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
December 14 2012 08:19 GMT
#637
I think they should just scrap Tempest and fix Carrier to take it's role so that units like BCs/Broodlords have their place in the game. Right now, you just don't build them, period.
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
December 14 2012 08:20 GMT
#638
Really hope they do something to the Widow Mine to help Muta play. Just played a game where Terran scanned my spire and hid 3 widow mines in his mineral line as a nice little present. Went down from 10 Mutas to 7 weak mutas before killing any SCVs.

I've even tried going in with an Overseer to lead me except that it takes 2 shots to kill an Overseer from a Widow Mine meaning that in addition to worrying about keeping my Mutas alive while harassing, I'm also worried about my Overseer too while also keeping up with my macro and controlling my main army.

I'm not saying Widow Mines shouldn't be allowed to hit air, but something needs to be done so that 100/100/2 units aren't instantly one shot with 40 AoE damage by a 75/25/2 unit. That's just way too cost effective, especially when Zerg has no real way to counter it when harassing with Mutas. It's simply, "Oh I got hit with a Widow Mine. Minus one Muta I guess. Oh here come the marines/thor, time to run away while the Terran player is trading with me cost effectively every single time I try to harass with Mutas."
yo yo yo
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
December 14 2012 08:21 GMT
#639
On December 14 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 15:44 dgwow wrote:
I'd like to see some changes made to

Battlecruiers - not as scary late game, give them an ability like warp drive in battlestar galactica (like stalker blink but slower), that would look really cool, and increase their damage output

Nydus - make this more HP so that it can withstand worker attacks, and less resource requirement.

Carriers - buff this also so we see more carrier play



The carrier was already buffed secretly in the last patch and is actually a lot stronger now. Voidray/carrier/tempest/templar will kill any army and is probably the strongest composition in hots at least in pvz. If zerg lets a toss get that army the zerg will never kill it.



If history has shown us anything, it's that people WILL figure out a way to safely get that army. Then there'll be much complaining about Protoss having an unbeatable lategame composition, and Protoss players saying it's payback for Infestor/Broodlord.

I'm not looking forward to it.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
December 14 2012 08:30 GMT
#640
On December 14 2012 08:37 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:10 Umpteen wrote:
Between you and me, I have my fingers crossed for one last seismic change:

Burrow moved to Hatchery / Evo Chamber.

If Terran can have reusable super-banelings with burrow after barracks/factory, I don't see why I shouldn't have plain old burrowed banelings after spawning pool/research.


You really should try to think more critically when you make suggestions — "another race has it so I don't see why my race can't have it" isn't a valid reasoning in asymmetric design. By your reasoning Terran should also have the ability to conveniently insta-remax from their Command Center.

I'm not saying your suggestion itself is fundamentally bad, but that your thinking is a bit blind-sided. If you think burrow deserves to be a T1 tech then you need to provide something more insightful other than "he has something I don't".


Sorry, should have elaborated. Burrow was moved to Lair because of banelings. Clearly that move is no longer justified, because Terrans get the same kind of capability much earlier. Hence burrow could and should be returned to hatch tech. It's not "he has something I don't", it's "he has something that proves I could have back what was taken off me."
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 42 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs Lambo
RotterdaM2773
ComeBackTV 2162
IndyStarCraft 663
WardiTV483
CranKy Ducklings221
Rex163
3DClanTV 162
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2773
IndyStarCraft 663
Rex 163
BRAT_OK 71
MindelVK 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38873
Barracks 1141
EffOrt 1106
Larva 896
Nal_rA 583
BeSt 516
firebathero 354
Shine 346
Stork 317
Rush 182
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 174
Dewaltoss 148
Hyun 92
sorry 68
Movie 59
zelot 35
sSak 27
Free 26
Terrorterran 18
yabsab 18
IntoTheRainbow 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7145
qojqva3840
420jenkins406
Counter-Strike
fl0m3080
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor600
Liquid`Hasu279
Other Games
Beastyqt1379
Hui .326
Fuzer 190
KnowMe117
QueenE112
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 39
• StrangeGG 26
• Legendk 7
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV770
League of Legends
• Jankos1520
Counter-Strike
• Nemesis1792
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1h 31m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
18h 31m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
WardiTV European League
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.