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adogh345
3 Posts
Warpin on Ramp....wow. What about Highground warpin? Probably still gone. Blizzard is patching really strangely. Making already op stuff like battle hellion vs lings even more op and and now making tempest vs capital ships/broodlrods broken as hell. Now every zerg has to go ultralisk vs toss for the late game for sure. | ||
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Mudkipnick
Korea (South)241 Posts
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:19 Fig wrote: Exactly! This is actually a blessing in disguise for the PvZ matchup. It creates a greater incentive for mutalisks vs protoss, and at the same time creates more incentive to go phoenixes, which absolutely destroy mutas now. The +1 range encourages more people to use the micro, because it is now doable without the extra range upgrade. Plus the new passive healing doesn't change how fast mutas get eaten alive by phoenixes. And while most other toss options don't do well against mutas, this means that there are more times when toss will want to go for air units in the matchup, which is good news in my opinion, especially with the fungal change to a projectile. Now the whole air tech path is no longer instantly countered when infestors come out. It again plays to the strengths of people with good multitask and micro, who can keep an eye on their phoenixes all the time. And finally, active units like the mutalisk and the phoenix are just more interesting units, and make the matchup much more fun to watch and play than turtle into colossus, or turtle into broodlord/infestor. Blizzard: Hey Protoss players! We know you hated having to do 2 years of Robo play with Stargate only for some gimmicks, so with the Muta buff, we swapped that for you! Enjoy the next 2 years of Stargate only with little possibility of any variation! | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:35 Mudkipnick wrote: I still don't understand why Dark Shrines are more affordable. Are they trying to make DT harass more viable than it already is? Only thing that's been bothering me with this patch note. They wanted to encourage more DT use in the late game. 3. Buff DTs not necessarily for the DT rush case, but to have DTs more often in the late game. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5966979955 Dark Shrine cost reduction We wanted the Dark Shrine to feel like a more desirable tech option for players. By reducing the cost of the Dark Shrine, Dark Templar can be utilized in more late game scenarios. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452623 | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:41 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Blizzard: Hey Protoss players! We know you hated having to do 2 years of Robo play with Stargate only for some gimmicks, so with the Muta buff, we swapped that for you! Enjoy the next 2 years of Stargate only with little possibility of any variation! Blizzard: Hey Protoss players! We know that you don't like playing against mutalisks, so we keep on buffing phoenixes. We know that you hate playing vs Infestors, so we nerf them. We know that you don't like to play against Broodlords, so you get Tempests. We know that roaches are kind of hard to kill if you don't go robo, so we buff the shit out of voidrays. We know you had a hard time harassing in WoL, so we created the Oracle. Protoss: WTF, to do those things I have to do something different then mass robo and gateway units? | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:54 Big J wrote: Blizzard: Hey Protoss players! We know that you don't like playing against mutalisks, so we keep on buffing phoenixes. We know that you hate playing vs Infestors, so we nerf them. We know that you don't like to play against Broodlords, so you get Tempests. We know that roaches are kind of hard to kill if you don't go robo, so we buff the shit out of voidrays. We know you had a hard time harassing in WoL, so we created the Oracle. Protoss: WTF, to do those things I have to do something different then mass robo and gateway units? The point is they are just trading one forced tech tree for another. Between Muta buffs, Vipers, Swarm hosts, Robo play is not nearly as viable as it was before and you pretty much have to go Stargate, now. It's even worse now because with Muta speed + health regen, Storm is about a billion times less effective vs Mutas. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:58 KrazyTrumpet wrote: The point is they are just trading one forced tech tree for another. Between Muta buffs, Vipers, Swarm hosts, Robo play is not nearly as viable as it was before and you pretty much have to go Stargate, now. It's even worse now because with Muta speed + health regen, Storm is about a billion times less effective vs Mutas. In WoL, "only" 1-2 Robo (+Archon) play is so viable that Zerg must go full air against it, because there is nothing on the ground to combat it. I really don't think those changes will make it suddenly "not viable". | ||
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maniac1122
United States111 Posts
Too many units overlap (in roles) and the matchups already seem like we know whats going to happen. Will say i do like my plethora of options as a zerg player now, however. | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
Well it was nice to not see mass roach at least... I wonder if we will eventually get tired of mass Muta ZvZ... | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On December 14 2012 03:38 freetgy wrote: mutas will be so OP in PvZ Stalker already only do 6.9 dps to mutas this will be now further reduced to 5.9 dps due to the healing. ONE Stalker will do 5.9 DPS. Each additional one attacking the muta will do 6.9. Think. | ||
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Mudkipnick
Korea (South)241 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:50 eviltomahawk wrote: They wanted to encourage more DT use in the late game. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5966979955 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7320452623 DTS are already used late game, I don't see why they're encouraging this even more... | ||
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Elp
Netherlands86 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:24 adogh345 wrote: LoL. Blizzard always with these ninja changes and they are often huge. Warpin on Ramp....wow. What about Highground warpin? Probably still gone. The warp in on ramps isn't such a big change since you can only warp in on ramps when you have a pylon on the high ground. So you can't use it offensively (bypassing forcefields), which was the reason it was removed in the first place, afaik. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On December 14 2012 06:03 Big J wrote: In WoL, "only" 1-2 Robo (+Archon) play is so viable that Zerg must go full air against it, because there is nothing on the ground to combat it. I really don't think those changes will make it suddenly "not viable". If Zerg goes for Mutas and you've opened Robo, you're already in some trouble in WoL. Not an autoloss, but you're definitely playing from behind. If Robo units are significantly weakened against standard Zerg (reducing the benefit of playing Robo) and Mutas are strengthened (increasing the risk of playing Robo), can you be surprised that players will move from Robo to Stargate? You're also ignoring that Protoss literally can't do anything BUT go Gateway/Robo. What Stargate units are we supposed to use against Zerg? Phoenix are good until Infestors come out. Void Rays are good never. Carriers are only "good" against Infestor/Broodlord. The Mothership is already used. The only units that a Protoss player can possibly bring to the table against a Zerg are Gateway and Robo units. That's nine different units! That's the MAJORITY of the Protoss units! Why are you being so obstinately ignorant? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On December 14 2012 06:57 hugman wrote: ONE Stalker will do 5.9 DPS. Each additional one attacking the muta will do 6.9. Think. Realistically, it's going to be somewhere in the middle because not all the Stalkers will attack the same Muta. It's kind of irrelevant anyway, because this buff is most important against Storm. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
since tempest own BC's even harder now i think they should remove energy and put yamato and a timer. | ||
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eot
146 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 14 2012 07:15 eot wrote: 30 + 50 vs massive for the Tempest seems a bit silly because that basically means you're just supposed to use it against BCs, BLs and Colossi, so in practice you're only going to use them vs BLs. The unit just seems a little piegon holed. I think it should have a different ground attack, maybe some kind of AoE. Oh hell no this unit should not recive a buff . If they recive a ground attack with Aoe , it should at max be 7 range. Tempest already force engagements with their long range they don't need a stronger one against ground | ||
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K_osss
United States113 Posts
On December 14 2012 02:54 ShamW0W wrote: Ignoring balance for a second (hard to do, I know  ) it's exciting to me that Blizzard is trying to push the game away from it's current deathball state with the latest series of changes. They're boosting harass options for all races which means slow deathball armies should be able to be fought with competent harass.Still a lot of work to do but the last 2 patches have me more excited than I was a few short weeks ago. Well said. I completely agree. These design decisions are what's critical at this point! They can use their balancing tools and win/loss analysis stuff to get the stats/damage/whatever right. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 14 2012 05:54 Big J wrote: Blizzard: Hey Protoss players! We know that you don't like playing against mutalisks, so we keep on buffing phoenixes. We know that you hate playing vs Infestors, so we nerf them. We know that you don't like to play against Broodlords, so you get Tempests. We know that roaches are kind of hard to kill if you don't go robo, so we buff the shit out of voidrays. We know you had a hard time harassing in WoL, so we created the Oracle. Protoss: WTF, to do those things I have to do something different then mass robo and gateway units? WTF are you even blabbering about. Robo was never good vs muta. The muta vs. blink stalkers/HT dynamic was already very good in WoL, both from a play and spectating standpoint. You ideally want both stargate and twilight tech to be viable vs mutas. HT defense may not even be viable anymore with Muta regen. | ||
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