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On December 13 2012 12:07 SoFrOsTy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 11:53 wcr.4fun wrote:
I would buy hots if:
- removed thor
- added goliath (possibly with really small splash to air, reason see below)
- add air stacking (not as an ability obvious, but by using an overlord or larvae added to your group or via another method)
- add moving shot to game
- revert passive regeneration on mutalisk
- remove swarm host, make the lurker somehow work
(-remove collussus? Add other more interesting and skill requiring unit)
- remove widow mine
- add spider mine to reaper/hellion/... whatever fits best
- change fungal to plague
- change consume from absorbing builing heatlth to destroying a unit (bw version)
- change blinding cloud to dark swarm (toned down perhaps, percentage based damage reduction? like 80 percent or something)
- Make ultralisks smaller
- change general pathing of units to allow better control (see bw) and destroy deathball
- require less workers per base for saturation meaning less income per base and thus allowing more options (low econ games vs high econ games)
- significantly tone down spawn larvae/mule and chronoboost
- give cooldown advantage to gateways versus warp gates
I think this is everything.
Obviously balance any issues which may arise through these changes stacking wouldn't even help in sc 2. There is no benefit to it. In fact, it puts your units in more danger. that having been said, you should just keep playing BW. Sc2 obviously is not for you.
But SC 2 isn't even an additive sequel, to this point it's simply a step back. A game like that isn't "for" anyone. People like myself are critical because it has potential, but people having a fetish for units like the colossus just don't get why people complain about deathballs/boring gameplay.
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The changes seem pretty good imo :D
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On December 13 2012 12:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Haha, thought it would be blue. Hoped for pink tho 
I was hoping for red/orange/yellow so that it would be super obvious to a viewer. Depending on how bad a quality a stream ends up being, the blue might actually be somewhat difficult to distinguish from green.
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dislike all besides dt change
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can someone explain the difference in the widow mine?
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Pretty sure the Muta buffs (up regen and max speed) is to make the encourage muta play after the infestor projectile and range nerfs.
Certainly will make pressing "T" in Lair that much more fun :D
On December 13 2012 12:21 ETisME wrote:
can someone explain the difference in the widow mine?
posted earlier in thread, best reply I could find for you:
On December 13 2012 07:59 eviltomahawk wrote:As far as the unburrowed Widow Mine target priority change goes, according to the Liquipedia page for attack target priority, an attack priority of 19 will match the attack priorities of uprooted Spine and Spore Crawlers, rooted Spore Crawlers, burrowed Creep Tumors, Missile Turrets, and Bunkers. In comparison, almost all other units have attack priorities of 20, along with Cannons and PFs.
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pulsar beam "buff" was to be expected imo. When an oracle popped out you could barely use the beam at all
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They still need to buff hydra a bit. For example, 90HP and 7 range (upgraded).
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On December 13 2012 11:53 wcr.4fun wrote:
I would buy hots if:
- removed thor
- added goliath (possibly with really small splash to air, reason see below)
- add air stacking (not as an ability obvious, but by using an overlord or larvae added to your group or via another method)
- add moving shot to game
- revert passive regeneration on mutalisk
- remove swarm host, make the lurker somehow work
(-remove collussus? Add other more interesting and skill requiring unit)
- remove widow mine
- add spider mine to reaper/hellion/... whatever fits best
- change fungal to plague
- change consume from absorbing builing heatlth to destroying a unit (bw version)
- change blinding cloud to dark swarm (toned down perhaps, percentage based damage reduction? like 80 percent or something)
- Make ultralisks smaller
- change general pathing of units to allow better control (see bw) and destroy deathball
- require less workers per base for saturation meaning less income per base and thus allowing more options (low econ games vs high econ games)
- significantly tone down spawn larvae/mule and chronoboost
- give cooldown advantage to gateways versus warp gates
I think this is everything.
Obviously balance any issues which may arise through these changes
I like toning down larvae inject, but mule and chrono are both fine. Any master zerg can hit their injects pretty good nowadays anway, so "Zerg is the most mechanically difficult race" argument doesn't hold true anymore.
also lol'ed hard @ you saying bw pathing allows better control of your unit
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Personally I like the idea of Mutalisks being able to morph again (into a new type of capital ship).
Though health regen is not a bad idea. It fits with the reaper as harassing units (if you manage them well, you can do terrible terrible damage all game long).
Now there just needs to be Mutalisk stacking again.
Also for Protoss - Bring back the Reaver!
Terran - In TvT, the mech changes made mech too much used over bio (you can transition easily to air).
In other match ups (especially going mech against Zerg), it is definitely a bit too strong.
also lol'ed hard @ you saying [b]bw pathing allows better control of your unit
I think he meant it doesn't lead to death ball syndrome which leads to everything melting in 5 seconds instead of more gradual long drawn out fights. One of the reasons SC2 is more volatile (or that is, there are less consistent players than BW and WC3) is that battles are like a sword fight (sword fights IRL actually end 10 seconds or less). There are much more game costing mistakes in SC2 than BW and WC3. (If your deathball gets caught out of position once, you lose).
In BW and WC3, the fights were more gradual. In BW, there was wave after wave of units attacking (usually, units were everywhere, unlike SC2 which promotes deathballs due to how easy it is to clump them up and have them attack all at once). In WC3, everything just took long.
WC3 has a good balance between SC2 and BW (WC3's pathing doesn't cause the units to clump).
Though, HotS is doing good at making the game more gradual with the new units without actually changing the pathing or anything.
Edit - Whoops, misread. He said pathing allows better control of your unit? A no in that case then (SC2's pathing is much more easier and more intuitive... Dragoons vs Stalkers is a good example, heh).
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On December 13 2012 12:38 Goldfish wrote:
Personally I like the idea of Mutalisks being able to morph again (into a new type of capital ship).
Though health regen is not a bad idea. It fits with the reaper as harassing units (if you manage them well, you can do terrible terrible damage all game long).
Now there just needs to be Mutalisk stacking again.
Also for Protoss - Bring back the Reaver!
Terran - In TvT, the mech changes made mech too much used over bio (you can transition easily to air).
In other match ups (especially going mech against Zerg), it is definitely a bit too strong.
mutalisks already stack if you control them correctly (look up Gretorp's video on this)
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I´ve been waiting for higher regeneration on important zerg units since SC2 released. I hope they give the same regen or faster to roaches and ultras too, but this is definetly a step in the right direction.
Not sure if I agree with making the Oracle harder to use, but overall a good patch.
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Oh yay the Tempest is being pushed even more into a hard counter role 
My prediction -> The possibility of Tempests causes no BLs or colossus to be built against them and so the Tempest itself is never built.
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On December 13 2012 12:46 Forumite wrote:
I´ve been waiting for higher regeneration on important zerg units since SC2 released. I hope they give the same regen or faster to roaches and ultras too, but this is definetly a step in the right direction.
Not sure if I agree with making the Oracle harder to use, but overall a good patch.
How about you Burrow them ?...
They gave this to Mutas to make Muta harassment more attractive so Mutas don't become useless at the one thing they're good at when hurt. This is not to improve them as a combat unit so no Ultras will not get this . And Roaches wtf just get the upgrade and burrow them if they're hurt ....
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On December 13 2012 12:29 larse wrote:
They still need to buff hydra a bit. For example, 90HP and 7 range (upgraded).
no, not like that
They need to Undo- the 2 nerfs the hydralisk got on the past(look this up on Liquidpedia i urge you to!) that made the hydralisk suck in the first place.
THEN they need to Make the range 6 and remove grooved spines(I've been saying this for 2 whole years already)
its as easy as that.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Needs better medivac color imo
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Anyone know if the Mac issues were fixed?
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Day9 just said on stream that mech isn't viable in HotS.
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On December 13 2012 13:09 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Day9 just said on stream that mech is weak in HotS.
yes, there's an entire thread on that
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EPT
