EPT[D] Oracle changes seem overly powerful - Page 13
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
|
awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
| ||
|
emc
United States3088 Posts
| ||
|
Mr. Nefarious
United States515 Posts
On December 11 2012 11:27 emc wrote: I don't see a problem, it's a 150 gas unit that costs energy to harass, making it much harder to use timewarp if you are harassing all the time. If the unit wasn't OP, would it even be used? I mean seriously, think about it. There are plenty of unused units because they are terrible, look at the Hydra from WOL, the raven from WOL, the Ultra from WOL, the infestor in HOTS... blizzard never buffed the hydra in WOL, obviously they don't really care if a unit is not used because it's trash. | ||
|
Mia
75 Posts
On December 11 2012 13:28 Mr. Nefarious wrote: There are plenty of unused units because they are terrible, look at the Hydra from WOL, the raven from WOL, the Ultra from WOL, the infestor in HOTS... blizzard never buffed the hydra in WOL, obviously they don't really care if a unit is not used because it's trash. ultra is used pretty much any tvz, if terran is able to deal with bl army, and hydras are used in almost every zvz mu, if the game goes at least slightly in late game. Ravens arent that useless,they are 1 of the way to deal with bl infestor army, and still be somewhat not totally screwed over by ultra switch. Ravens are used almost every tvt and tvz late game. I havent used infestor in hots, but from numbers points, it actually seems fine. For example Reaper is far more useles unit than any you mentioned. | ||
|
Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
The people just get cought offguard and don´t know how to deal with it (yet). | ||
|
Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On December 11 2012 17:18 USvBleakill wrote: Oracle looks ridiculously op especially with the "T3 for the price of a sentry" - dt´s. But this could be just a meta game thing like the blind turetts in the early days in tvz. The people just get cought offguard and don´t know how to deal with it (yet). Yes, 3 cloaked banshees are just as OP and functional (immortal killing duty, sniping pylons, etc), the metagame will obviously evolve to spot early stargate timings and defend vs. oracle harass as well as counters. Their low health and high speed will make them likely a pro-only unit. My bet is by the end of the third quarter, most P would have gone back to WP drops. Just as T have basically abandoned early banshee harass due to their fragility and high opportunity cost. 3 Oracles is 450m/450g that could have gone into units or an expand. Like a T going 3 early banshees, a Protoss going for 3 early oracles MUST DO DAMAGE (pin opponent on two base, destroy probes, kill off a few zealots/lings/etc) or be seriously behind. I don't see a problem. | ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 11 2012 11:27 emc wrote: I don't see a problem, it's a 150 gas unit that costs energy to harass, making it much harder to use timewarp if you are harassing all the time. If the unit wasn't OP, would it even be used? I mean seriously, think about it. Indeed, it does seem strong, but definitely not overpowered. And I like that their beam attack is actually a spell, so it doesn't benefit from air attack upgrades, but it also ignores armor, which may be huge in the late game. Overall, I like the unit, and I don't think that it should be nerfed, at least not at the start, but they should wait a little and see what the pro players can do with it. | ||
|
Tharkun
France43 Posts
They have very low health and a single turret or spore crawler can significantly reduce damage from the harass. But more importantly, a good number of oracles (6-7) seems to be now viable as a part of a late game composition in PvT when facing MMM, and this is great. They have an insane DPS against marines, and can cast timewarp to slow the bioball movement. This is so cool to have a unit that can be used for harass early game and then used late game in straight up battles. Most openings based on harass units (like the cloaked banshee or the DT) are a coinflip because whether you win or lose the game depends if the opponent is prepared or not. But this is not the case with the oracle. If your harass fails, you don't straight up lose the game. You save them and keep them in your main army as part of a viable composition. Just great. Now, any nerf would jeopardize that fact, and i would hate to see the oracle ditched, much like what happened to the tempest in this patch... | ||
|
summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
this would still make them kill workers pretty fast but make them significantly weaker against units | ||
|
emanresU
Germany393 Posts
It's a hard brake. Compare the timing to Hellion arrivals - and Hellions don't run out of energy. Then compare them to Marine drops. The gas commitment in either case isn't what you require in order to field a single Oracle. Oracles are good, but only so good - and their beam doesn't benefit from upgrades, does it? Hellions can be responded w/ additional Queens (Z here) though. I tried a 4 queen build vs. a stargate open but still they just focus the queens. when I added spores, they focussed them and continued killing workers. i think a nerf is necessary. EDIT: The problem imo is not, that it is strong vs. workers, it is, that they are too strong vs Units. They should rather, like mutas, be good at killing workers but wear at killing, units so that a hydra or a 4 queen opening. | ||
|
ETisME
12737 Posts
They are extremely mobile, difficult to snipe and can deal with marines relatively well, maybe too well. | ||
|
MVega
763 Posts
| ||
|
Jasiwel
United States146 Posts
| ||
|
archonOOid
1983 Posts
| ||
|
Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
| ||
|
KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
| ||
|
kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On December 11 2012 23:50 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Damn, this thread is still going? I thought the general consensus by this point is that they are about the same effectiveness as cloaked banshees. Really good if you catch your opponent unprepared, but not all that great if they are with some minimal support capabilities. People are only reading the OP. You might edit the OP. | ||
|
Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On December 11 2012 21:50 ETisME wrote: I feel that they are slightly OP. They are extremely mobile, difficult to snipe and can deal with marines relatively well, maybe too well. Mineral only openings (no WM) NEED bunker in mineral line. Aside from that, standard WOL one base 1-1-1 Opening, Viking first has no problem shutting this down HARD. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 12 2012 01:18 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Mineral only openings (no WM) NEED bunker in mineral line. Aside from that, standard WOL one base 1-1-1 Opening, Viking first has no problem shutting this down HARD. I second this comment. I've been trying(and losing with) the oracle in all three match ups. One rax FE needs some sort of static defense if the mineral line if you cannot confirm that the protoss is going 1 gate FE. If not, you risk 2 of these showing up and obliterating your mineral line. As for the unit itself, I think it still needs work on the control end. The fire animation has a cook up that really limits the units ability to be microed, but also gives is really bad feedback on when it is attacking. It cannot do the studder step micro that most units with a standard attack can. The unit is no mutalisk or banshee, which is fine bacause it is a caster. I need to use the unit more or see how pros use it, but it is really hard to avoid static defenses or keep the unit from drifting into their range while firing. Also, for those who don't know, it burns enegry even when it is not firing. I am 50/50 on if this is a good thing or not. I do think it needs a visual cue if it in "attack mode" because it is impossible to tell if one is in attack mode if you have 4 selected at once. Its all about the little things that make a unit great. | ||
|
Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
and I have a feeling Bisu will enjoy the oracle, mark my words | ||
| ||
