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On December 11 2012 01:42 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:00 RandomMan wrote:On December 10 2012 03:33 kcdc wrote:On December 09 2012 20:05 alone wrote:On December 09 2012 10:03 kcdc wrote:
Chargelot + Oracle: the new Chargelot + Arcon vs Bio?
Given the crazy DPS and movement speed, it seems like it'd have potential. EMP says hi. Chargelot archon gets beaten by ghosts too. It's still a useful composition. I fear TvP will turn into mech turtling (super boring), but if it stays bio, I'll definitely give chargelot oracle some play. Chargelot archon is still useful only because of storm, as well as zealots HT archons share the same ground upgrades and all comes from gateway. Oracles are neither sharing upgrades nor build from gateways, it is not gonna work well. And chargelot oracle can score SCV kills, force turrets, deny drops, etc.
You wont force turrets, you only force widow mines surrounding mineral line, which turn out to be powerful drop harassment option with the new upgrade.
Deny drops with oracles? What if terran drop with claw widow mine instead of stim marine? Or deny with phoenix? Thats even more waste of resources in the mid to late game consider how useful phoenix do against terran pass early game, its even worse than the claw widow mine in terms of late game usage.
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On December 11 2012 01:46 weikor wrote:
And, if you make it much weaker, it risks turning into the WoL reaper that is never used. Losing 3-5 Workers is not a huge deal if your opponent commited to a harassing tech path / unit.
150/150 makes on oracle cost you the equivalent of 6 workers. (if you even value gas and minerals equally).
As zerg : 1 Sporecrawler in each mineral line (per base) is still worth it, even if your opponent goes for only 1 oracle
As protoss: 1 Cannon in both bases, same case.
As terran : Missile turrets are even more effective, as they only cost 100.
and dont forget widow mine, which 1 shot oracle, and can be used as drop harassment option once upgrade was done.
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On December 11 2012 01:51 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 02:40 RandomMan wrote:Per cost, how do Oracles with their abilities fair against Hydras? oracle perform horribly, because hydra out ranged them, and if you time warp then you have not much energy left for you to activate pulsar beam For the record this is just untrue. In straight up engagements, oracles tear up hydras at a 2:1 ratio. And because oracles move so quickly, flanking oracles can focus fire and mow through a hydra line without taking any losses.
You mean twice as many Oracles as Hydras, or the other way around? If the former case; that does not sound entirely unreasonable considering that's 300/300/6 vs 100/50/2.
As for the latter case, I just tested 4 Oracles vs 8 Hydras, both bunched up then A-Moved and the Hydras won, with 2 remaining (one of them deep red). No weapon/armor upgrades for both, no ranged/speed upgrade for Hydra. Oracles had full energy. In other words; ideal situation for Oracle other than the lack of micro.
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Today we saw a progame where a banshee killed 40 enemy workers (scvs). I know this does not happen too often but they most often than not pay for themselves, in the past they just won games.
I mean the thing has much more hp and can cloak... Can't see oracle being better than it. It's just the new thing and people are gonna cry as usual.
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It'll probably be nerfed in the next patch. It's one of those things that are obviously too strong.
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On December 11 2012 02:03 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:51 Kambing wrote:On December 10 2012 02:40 RandomMan wrote:Per cost, how do Oracles with their abilities fair against Hydras? oracle perform horribly, because hydra out ranged them, and if you time warp then you have not much energy left for you to activate pulsar beam For the record this is just untrue. In straight up engagements, oracles tear up hydras at a 2:1 ratio. And because oracles move so quickly, flanking oracles can focus fire and mow through a hydra line without taking any losses. You mean twice as many Oracles as Hydras, or the other way around? If the former case; that does not sound entirely unreasonable considering that's 300/300/6 vs 100/50/2. As for the latter case, I just tested 4 Oracles vs 8 Hydras, both bunched up then A-Moved and the Hydras won, with 2 remaining (one of them deep red). No weapon/armor upgrades for both, no ranged/speed upgrade for Hydra. Oracles had full energy. In other words; ideal situation for Oracle other than the lack of micro.
Sorry, yes, I mean 1 oracle can take 2 hydras. When you have lots of oracles and hydras, it boils down to positioning and micro as both units are glass cannons. That is, they deal lots of damage but are fragile, so any advantage you can get that chips away at their effective DPS helps greatly. In particular, focus fire for either unit (of which the oracle is better equipped to do with its mobility) is important as it quickly removes the dps advantage the other side has.
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Didn't blizzard say they didn't want the oracle to kill workers, that turned out well.
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On December 11 2012 04:58 phrenzy wrote:
Didn't blizzard say they didn't want the oracle to kill workers, that turned out well.
that was before they gave in to the community response. i mean those mineral shields were just terrible on all accounts.
it involved no skill to use nor is there room to apply skill while using it. it is boring to use and watch for player and observer - and "defending" it also offers no opportunity for the application of skill.
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On December 11 2012 03:56 DemigodcelpH wrote:
It'll probably be nerfed in the next patch. It's one of those things that are obviously too strong.
"I'm bad and cant defend against them, please nerf". They are fine. They force defensive reactions. They're an actual harassment unit. That's the point.
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After a lot of games(30) against the oracle,
I think it's not too bad.
Oracles are out by the 8 minute mark.
One spore hugging your hatchery each base shuts down oracles pretty hard.
If you scout that they have 4 or more oracles, it's best to throw up another spore hugging your base, just in case.
I always open spire these days because oracles and phoenixes become insanely powerful if left unchecked by a few corruptors.
Transition to speed hydra/viper to win the game.
That is all.
<3
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On December 11 2012 06:26 neoghaleon55 wrote:
After a lot of games(30) against the oracle,
I think it's not too bad.
Oracles are out by the 8 minute mark.
One spore hugging your hatchery each base shuts down oracles pretty hard.
If you scout that they have 4 or more oracles, it's best to throw up another spore hugging your base, just in case.
I always open spire these days because oracles and phoenixes become insanely powerful if left unchecked by a few corruptors.
Transition to speed hydra/viper to win the game.
That is all.
<3
We need more people with actual experience to talk about this (like this guy) instead of just a bunch of people theorycrafting based on one case, e.g. White-Ra in his showmatch yesterday against Ret where it's like 4 Oracles vs ... 1 Queen 0 Spores. Oracles deal damage in that situation? Omfg game is broken.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 11 2012 06:26 neoghaleon55 wrote:
After a lot of games(30) against the oracle,
I think it's not too bad.
Oracles are out by the 8 minute mark.
One spore hugging your hatchery each base shuts down oracles pretty hard.
If you scout that they have 4 or more oracles, it's best to throw up another spore hugging your base, just in case.
I always open spire these days because oracles and phoenixes become insanely powerful if left unchecked by a few corruptors.
Transition to speed hydra/viper to win the game.
That is all.
<3
Yeah I've been opening up with a faster tech build vs Protoss, it's a style Zenio was using in WoL (Day9 did a daily on it if you guys want to check it out), he still gets his third base at ~5 minutes but speed first and a faster lair. He throws down a Hydra Den AND a Spire at the same time. This allows you to punish people really well who open these things like fast 4 oracles or mass air. And it also allows you to go into Roach Hydra Viper very easily or Muta/Ling/Bling > Ultra.
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I feel like oracle need to be a bit harder to use...
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On December 11 2012 10:12 GreyKnight wrote:
I feel like oracle need to be a bit harder to use...
It's a fast unit, yes. But it's made of tissue paper for it's cost, you have to stop dead before the beam will turn on, and you have to manually target or you will end up focusing something that isn't efficient. It costs 4 energy for each second the beam is on, so using it without wasting is something only those with the best micro will be able to do. I fail to see how it's easy to use. In fact, the better you are, the more scenarios you will be able to use the Oracle in.
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the oracle is actaully a fantastic unit overall, they did a great job designing it this time around.
however its glitched because ship weapons do not affect the beam attack.
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On December 11 2012 10:20 Zergrusher wrote:
the oracle is actaully a fantastic unit overall, they did a great job designing it this time around.
however its glitched because ship weapons do not affect the beam attack.
this is not a glitch
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On December 11 2012 10:24 kayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 10:20 Zergrusher wrote:
the oracle is actaully a fantastic unit overall, they did a great job designing it this time around.
however its glitched because ship weapons do not affect the beam attack. this is not a glitch
its a feature
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If you have good micro, oracles are really, really good. I had 3 oracles beat 6 hydras and a spore I left at home for defense by abusing the hydras laughable move speed and using "pull back the oracle getting shot" micro. In numbers of 3+ they kill hydras as an amusing rate, which is really stupid considering they should be their direct counter. I hope for the love of god they give Z a decent AA unit at lair now that infestor is trash league. Fighting phoenix/oracle with queen/hydra is a lost cause, despite the fact that they are both supposed to be our dedicated lair AA. Feels really, really stupid when you scout double stargate, making nothing but queen/hydra and then half your units get picked up and the other half instantly erased by the oracles very high vs light DPS and ability to ignore armor on the queen.
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Zealot + oracle looks like a competent mid game army, analogous to a hellion/banshee army.
Except that P's version is way more deadly, as it should be.
Time warp slows down marines while focus firing micro is negated, due to threat of being either cut down by zealots or pulsar beams, both equally deadly.
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Oracle attack is VERY GOOD, yes.
BUT!
Look at how fast you drain energy with the attack! You'll have no room for other ability usage if you're focusing on attacking.
AND
energy is drained while the attack is active, not while the oracle is firing. So if you can force oracles to "micro" away from you, they are losing even more energy for not firing.
AND
Their range is 4. Their cost is 150/150/3. Their build time is 50 seconds (no chrono). They're quite the hefty investment en masse. Spore crawlers/missile turrets/basic anti-air are great deterrents vs oracles.
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EPT
