EPTHotS balance update #8 - Page 73
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Swish 41
Germany154 Posts
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:02 ETisME wrote: taking out the +massive bonus for tempest is kinda sad to see, PvP was really interesting Units will always use the stronger attack when they have ground and air attacks. So the Tempest still uses it's +massive attack against Colossus (because they are air and ground units). But yeah no longer counter archons, I think that's fine though. Stargate in general got a big buff anyways. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:05 ddrddrddrddr wrote: That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around. But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta. Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:05 ddrddrddrddr wrote: That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around. But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta. Yes, that is the point. Since beta is down and no one knows how these massive changes works out it's pretty pointless to go and say:"Terran is new zerg, just camping into some crazy composition and then rolls Zerg upside down".. Which was why I was so angry about this guy who cry that he cant 1a from 4 base bl/infestor.. I'm absolutely against if it turns out Terran is able to do absolutely the same Zerg is able to do now.. Of course for the sake of good game design. | ||
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kaNt-
163 Posts
Mutalisk is one of the main problems in WoL, and now they are buffing the mutas? They are pretty fast in WoL, honestly i don´t think they need a speed buff and toss still does not have an effective way to deal with mutas, tempest are not a solution. The medivac speed buff is ridiculous, now drops are going to be incredibly powerful, even more mobility to terran? Really? I fell that the dark shrine buff is not a big benefit, the main problem with the dark shrine in WoL is the requiered time to build, a 100 seconds is way too much, and DTs in late game are crap, if the opponent is decent and gets enough detection. I think archons need a buff, they cost too much and they are killed very easily with EMP, fungal, speedlings surround, etc. Archons are not useful in late game except for archon toilets. The carrier needs a buff like Liquid´Nony proposed, a "micro requiered" buffed carrier to deal with late game compositions (especially BL, festor). Stalkers in late game are so weak for the cost and they die pretty fast. They need a slight buff to be more viable in late game. | ||
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Facimo
Germany14 Posts
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Destroyr
Germany299 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:09 Rabiator wrote: Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it. Sounds interesting. Maybe we finally get a late game that needs some control and also does demage... Broodlords shall be lost! Please! If terran also gets also more DPS for siege tanks this will be so much fun. Dreaming of a new brood war ^^ | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:01 LOLItsRyann wrote: That's really interesting. I love the idea of opportunity cost in things like that. Decision making is a resource that many people forget about in Starcraft, and quite possibly one of the hardest and most difficult ones. Before I read the notes I thought that it would naturally be tied to energy, I'm pretty surprised that its not. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:08 ZjiublingZ wrote: Units will always use the stronger attack when they have ground and air attacks. So the Tempest still uses it's +massive attack against Colossus (because they are air and ground units). But yeah no longer counter archons, I think that's fine though. Stargate in general got a big buff anyways. The changes to tempest ( and also Voidray ) greatly benefit the Thor that especially with the new weapon mode, if needed, now can actually fight every air unit at least reasonably well and not just light stuff. | ||
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BeeNu
615 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:01 Freeborn wrote: protoss got fucked over as far as i can tell. unless the oracle skill is superstrong vs marine/hydra now. but knowing how fast they die I doubt that. I don't know yet but Protoss air could actually be a lot stronger. I haven't played with Fungal yet to really know how it feels but if it's slow and short enough it could make air openings a lot more viable again. Phoenix openings for example used to be really openings where they would be able to hit hard and early and pick off Queen and Hydras as they spawned, the biggest problem came later with Infestors, one fungal and you lose all your Phoenix...now however, if you get the range upgrade you have 7 range to the Fungal's 8 and the opportunity to dodge, send in only 1 or 2 Phoenix at a time to pick up Infestors and the rest sit away shooting. This is all just hypothetical though, I haven't played with Voids or Oracle at all either, it might be decent still gotta give it some real play time. On the Zerg side of things I'm glad they finally have earlier Hydra speed like they've wanted since always. I'm a bit sad Zerg doesn't seem to have much else cool to play with from the patch, the Muta buff only seems to have been made to make them keep up with the new Medivac, Phoenix and Raven. Muta speed could make them a lot better vs Infestors now for ZvZ but I'm thinking Hydras in ZvZ will become a looooot more popular now that there will be more opportunity to micro them from Roaches and Banelings and Lings. If ZvZ somehow became just a massive Hydra on Hydra war like it used to be with Roaches...I think I would be ok with that, I just love seeing Hydras out. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:09 Rabiator wrote: Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it. You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?! | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:11 kaNt- wrote: This changes are against toss. Mutalisk is one of the main problems in WoL, and now they are buffing the mutas? They are pretty fast in WoL, honestly i don´t think they need a speed buff and toss still does not have an effective way to deal with mutas, tempest are not a solution. The medivac speed buff is ridiculous, now drops are going to be incredibly powerful, even more mobility to terran? Really? I fell that the dark shrine buff is not a big benefit, the main problem with the dark shrine in WoL is the requiered time to build, a 100 seconds is way too much, and DTs in late game are crap, if the opponent is decent and gets enough detection. I think archons need a buff, they cost too much and they are killed very easily with EMP, fungal, speedlings surround, etc. Archons are not useful in late game except for archon toilets. The carrier needs a buff like Liquid´Nony proposed, a "micro requiered" buffed carrier to deal with late game compositions (especially BL, festor). Stalkers in late game are so weak for the cost and they die pretty fast. They need a slight buff to be more viable in late game. Phoenix got another buff to match muta, and with all the buffs to the stargate units (and yes, they DID include a buff for Carrier micro, it just wasn't specified in the patch notes) you'll be seeing more stargate play to keep the mutas at bay. (See http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386472 for the reference to the Carrier buff) Along this same note, stargate play will shut down Terran drops. DT rushes will slow down Terran bio pushes. There are so many options now...this game looks so so so sick :D edit: link | ||
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Blargh
United States2101 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:01 Esralon wrote: if fungal is a projectilenow... are you able to stop it with a PDD? I don't think it's that type of projectile, so probably not. @penix vs muta discussion... You don't actually micro the phoenix, you just move them. Now, if you are aiming to kill the mutas, then you may have to micro forward and back some, but the zerg must try and catch you right when you do it, so it's this sort of silly back and forth thing, but theoretically, the protoss should win. You can't focus fire with phoenix, but you can move back weaker units. The mutas can too, though. The whole ZvP mutalisk dynamic is stupid, honestly. It's pretty much a -keep protoss in base and kill all their workers if they attack- dealio. Which is stupid. Phoenix countering mutalisks is dandy and all, but the only time that should ever even be possible is mid-late game (when you can afford getting phoenix in with your army I guess?) and when you go stargate openings. But very few zergs still get mutas when they see stargate tech, partially because infestors are way better in that position. @oracle as harass discussion... While it's okay to have harass units and whatnot, people trying to defend against it aren't going to make any different decisions or significant actions. They might throw up a few spores or something at each mineral line, which is pretty much what you do whenever any air unit harasses your min. line. Though currently, I think the oracle is too strong vs mineral lines, even with spores in place, so it's sort of bad. It seems like another one of those not-fun-to-watch anti-air or no anti-air situations. If the person has (enough) anti-air, it'll get fended and that's that, or if they don't, they take a ton of damage. | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
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Facimo
Germany14 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On December 07 2012 01:20 larse wrote: The power of the new medivac + bio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnQyKZcFDFI yes, protoss should die without splash againts bio. | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:14 aklambda wrote: They have. Was just not documented. Change target in leash range is possible now. Thanks for the info! Wow that's great! That should be included in the OP, afterall it is a big change and a big buff to Protoss. | ||
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