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On December 06 2012 23:43 Millet wrote:
Seems like really great changes, I'm proud of blizzard!
One thing I don't get is the thors high impact damage thing.. So to illustrate, I will compare what we know with the standard anti light air javelin thing the thor currently has:
Javelin rocket anti air (current):
Range: 10
Damage: 6 (+6 vs light) x 4 = 24 (48 vs light)
Upgrade increase: 4 per upgrade, 8 vs light per upgrade
High impact damage mode (new):
Range: 10
Ramage 24 (24 vs light also)
Upgrade increase: 3 per upgrade (according to traditional upgrade norms)
Comparing them makes the original better in all ways basically.. so why would you ever transform?
It shoots faster in the new mode . 2 seconds delay instead of 3. Upgrade increase by the way is 2 and not 3.
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This is so sick! For the first time I as a Zerg feel that I have a lot of options and maybe even two or three major venues to go along in each matchup. (ok prolly not zvz Idk). Oh happy days. Can't wait to play a little. Omfg, vipers and ultras and stuff. And maybe... hydras in ZvT?? Siiick. (Good thing they buffed medivacs or it would just be gghydraviperroachultra I suppose)
And those widow mines seem cool. Guess I'l lbe sending a ling to patrol all over the world in the future. Seriously this is so cool. I see myself owning noobs all the way to diamond, despite T and P obviously being overpowered now. (he!)
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whats the game version of you people?
i downloaded the patch then created a map in Map Editor but when i test it, there is no changes, mutalisk still 3.75 speed, vortex still the same, no medivac "nitro" and such.
my beta is version -> 2.0.0.24247 is this right or i made something wrong?
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On December 06 2012 23:32 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:46 Nyast wrote:On December 06 2012 20:49 Prog455 wrote:
Well first of all you should notice that every race has been buffed significantly. Medivacs have been buffed, but Protoss and Zerg has also been giving the means to deal with stronger bio forces
Huh? Where are the buffs for Protoss against terran bio ? I'm very concerned by the medivac buff, it sounds really strong. Protoss air has been buffed, but I really do wonder how good it would be to go gate units + air without splash damage versus 12-13' MMM... Time Warp + Psy Storms are still gonna rip through Bio forces
really interesting changes overall! a lot of these encourage harass.
storm damage against healed bio now is decreased from 11 to 5 per second, resulting in 44 to 20 damage over the whole time. i doubt that storm will accomplish anything before getting a number of colossi.
calling it now: bio drops will become unstoppable for zerg and medivac-timings really hard for toss. the 3 vs 6 medivac-story totally forgets that you have the resources of 1.5 medivacs less, which means that there will be more bio and dropping while attacking will become really strong. bio got a lot more cost effective late game too.
I think the medivac got overbuffed, but time will tell.
I'm really interested in the stargate-changes though. "charged" vrs now have more dps than immortals against armored (although they scale down with upgrades), phoenix could be efficient against vikings if t goes for bio and oracles could be really strong, killing about 2 workers in 3 seconds. if their range wasnt so bad they could counter rhines.
vortex went from broken to useless. high temps do the same 2 times for the same energy. i think i like the recall-change.
i get the reasoning behind dark shrine but i think you should need ht-shrine to build dark shrine.
not sure if zerg wont have huge problems, they currently really rely on the infestor. the hydra still is a unit that is basically pretty weak per cost.
zerg will need an additional overseer speed-upgrade for mutas to become useful in zvt.
hellbat got quite buffed too, considering that medivac-upgrade is another buff for it. it will be interesting to see if the buff helps the reaper enough.
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On December 07 2012 00:11 ( bush wrote:
whats the game version of you people?
i downloaded the patch then created a map in Map Editor but when i test it, there is no changes, mutalisk still 3.75 speed, vortex still the same, no medivac "nitro" and such.
my beta is version -> 2.0.0.24247 is this right or i made something wrong?
Hmm, something must be wrong, I have same version and in editor I have all changes..
edit: Just open beta, skip the dialog that says "Cannot connect to bnet" and there below "managa account" click "open editor" - this way it works for me...
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On December 07 2012 00:14 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 23:32 Prog455 wrote:On December 06 2012 22:46 Nyast wrote:On December 06 2012 20:49 Prog455 wrote:
Well first of all you should notice that every race has been buffed significantly. Medivacs have been buffed, but Protoss and Zerg has also been giving the means to deal with stronger bio forces
Huh? Where are the buffs for Protoss against terran bio ? I'm very concerned by the medivac buff, it sounds really strong. Protoss air has been buffed, but I really do wonder how good it would be to go gate units + air without splash damage versus 12-13' MMM... Time Warp + Psy Storms are still gonna rip through Bio forces really interesting changes overall! a lot of these encourage harass. storm damage against healed bio now is decreased from 11 to 5 per second, resulting in 44 to 20 damage over the whole time. i doubt that storm will accomplish anything before getting a number of colossi. calling it now: bio drops will become unstoppable for zerg and medivac-timings really hard for toss. the 3 vs 6 medivac-story totally forgets that you have the resources of 1.5 medivacs less, which means that there will be more bio and dropping while attacking will become really strong. bio got a lot more cost effective late game too. I think the medivac got overbuffed, but time will tell. I'm really interested in the stargate-changes though. "charged" vrs now have more dps than immortals against armored (although they scale down with upgrades), phoenix could be efficient against vikings if t goes for bio and oracles could be really strong, killing about 2 workers in 3 seconds. if their range wasnt so bad they could counter rhines. vortex went from broken to useless. high temps do the same 2 times for the same energy. i think i like the recall-change. i get the reasoning behind dark shrine but i think you should need ht-shrine to build dark shrine. not sure if zerg wont have huge problems, they currently really rely on the infestor. the hydra still is a unit that is basically pretty weak per cost. zerg will need an additional overseer speed-upgrade for mutas to become useful in zvt. hellbat got quite buffed too, considering that medivac-upgrade is another buff for it. it will be interesting to see if the buff helps the reaper enough.
1.5 medivacs is 1 marauder and a marine or an earlier 1+ armour.
Nothing really earth shattering. Bio drops late game will be a lot stronger but then so is protoss drop defence.
I don't think the current metagame of bio vs gateway+colossi is going to stay anyway.
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Bah just got home, was hoping to test the new patch and servers are down!? xD.
Hope they get up sooN!
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I remember Terrans being this awesome in the beginning of WoL too, but look at us now. I hope this doesn't become a trend for Blizzard.
I predict a very boring and stale meta game 2 years into HoTS release just like we have with now for WoL. Blizzard always find a way to fuck things up.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone.
Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp*
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it's about time terran got a buff
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On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp*
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
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On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Yeah but terran never had anything to help with turtling in the first place since their defense is the worst of all three races. O wait...
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On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
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On December 07 2012 00:16 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:11 ( bush wrote:
whats the game version of you people?
i downloaded the patch then created a map in Map Editor but when i test it, there is no changes, mutalisk still 3.75 speed, vortex still the same, no medivac "nitro" and such.
my beta is version -> 2.0.0.24247 is this right or i made something wrong?
Hmm, something must be wrong, I have same version and in editor I have all changes.. edit: Just open beta, skip the dialog that says "Cannot connect to bnet" and there below "managa account" click "open editor" - this way it works for me...
hm thank you, i tried it but still, nothing new, fungal not projectile, armory remains the same, Thor, VoidRay, reaper and such. I dont know what am i doing wrong?
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Proposing upgraded Medivacs be called Megavacs.
Also taking suggestions..
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United States7483 Posts
On December 06 2012 17:16 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 17:12 Whitewing wrote:On December 06 2012 17:03 Big J wrote:On December 06 2012 16:48 sagefreke wrote:
Infestor got nerfed into oblivion lol. I almost think it's too much. well, that's the whole point  But the IT no upgrade change makes no sense at all... Units that don't profit from upgrades? What's next? Mechanical units that transform into bio? Mines that don't explode upon usage? No, just spells that don't benefit from upgrades that aren't intended to benefit the spell. You know, like how mech upgrades don't buff auto-turrets. auto turrets are buildings... Even more, they have their own upgrades (Building armor, hi-sec, materials)
And they suck horribly and don't scale with +weapon upgrades.
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On December 07 2012 00:36 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
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On December 07 2012 00:41 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:36 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs.. You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 07 2012 00:41 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:36 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs.. You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
I'd love to see a terran mech army 1a. It's never going to happen as everything still hurts mech really hard.
Pushing with mech is a hell of a ton harder than current infestor broodlord.
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On December 07 2012 00:41 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 00:36 Everlong wrote:On December 07 2012 00:30 BeeNu wrote:On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote:On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote:
So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone. Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp* Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame. Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs.. You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Guys there is no way that we can say that the situation just got reversed, maybe it did, maybe it didn't.
Buffing terran and protoss air has its merits, I'm just worried we will see a whole lot more corrupter used in ZvP/T, hoping that we see more hydras instead.
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EPT
