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On December 06 2012 13:34 Savko wrote:
What are we supposed to use vortex on? It doesn't effect massive units. Am I gonna use it to one shot a single infestor?
You're not supposed to use it. They said they want to phase it out of competitive play completely.
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Playing it now.
You know what I'm most excited with right now? 2v2.
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On December 06 2012 13:43 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 08:30 Monochromatic wrote:
DT rush will be really good now.
Seeker missile change is interesting.
New medivac seems really good. How will it be really good? The build time hasn't changed.
It shouldn't be "really good", it will just be better. It's basically making the DT builds even more viable. You can squeeze a DT shrine in for little cost. DTs are a strong enough unit that the toss practically come out evenly if it forces a terran to scan for every DT. So the investment is less =/.
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United Kingdom20278 Posts
Raven seeker missile DOES NOT immobilize the raven - its range 10, when you cast, its basically like current seeker missile, it throws out stationary missile, paints target, which then fires after a couple seconds. It leaves the raven instantaneously without any affect on movement, etc.
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Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:48 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:43 TheSwamp wrote:On December 06 2012 08:30 Monochromatic wrote:
DT rush will be really good now.
Seeker missile change is interesting.
New medivac seems really good. How will it be really good? The build time hasn't changed. It shouldn't be "really good", it will just be better. It's basically making the DT builds even more viable. You can squeeze a DT shrine in for little cost. DTs are a strong enough unit that the toss practically come out evenly if it forces a terran to scan for every DT. So the investment is less =/.
That's still something that Terrans can still factor in, timing wise.
It does however enables say, DT transitions in warp-prism centric PvZ to be less of an investment and easier to fit into the flow of the build. I mean you could say, approach the game in reasonably normal way, but transition to really super heavy Warp Prism play if you see a chance, with a smoother transition.
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On December 06 2012 13:40 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:38 Rabiator wrote:On December 06 2012 08:26 blade55555 wrote:
Like zerg changes 35 flat damage all the time is nice and viper health increase I won't complain :D. They havent said anything about the splash damage and this is a MASSIVE boost to the Ultralisk against light units which isnt good. Zerg already have the lowest number of units which are "limited" by "bonus damage" and removing one of them wont make the game better ... On December 06 2012 08:26 blade55555 wrote:
Seeker missile with 300 damage holy shit lol that will be interesting. Not really ... since they will probably lighten up the target neon red so no one can miss it and getting to 13 range in 3 seconds wont be that much of a problem for many units. The missile still costs 125 energy - which is a shitton - and is still vulnerable to Feedback. Due to the "you can get out of range" factor the Raven has to get close enough so it doesnt happen and we are back down to an effective range of 6 where it will be Fungaled or shot down ... I wonder what they make of the duration upgrade for the missile ... Well I think that the HSM is more of a "force the enemy not to A-Move unit". It also would make key units be taken out of the battle temporaily in order to dodge the missle.
1. Its SM and not HSM ...
2. At 125 it would be a ridiculously expensive "dont A-move" skill. For that amount of energy it should deal A LOT of damage because the unit does NOTHING except detection in the time inbetween.
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Server is disconnecting every so often. Still flaky. Not just me.
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With EG-TL in proleague and now this...........
one of the best weeks in ESPORTS history i'd say
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It says I have no copy of sc2 attached to my account o_0
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TERRANS REJOICE. IT'S A MIRACLE. But don't worry, I'm gonna guess more than half of those changes will be reverted shortly.
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The server is lagging terribly though -_- Dropped in 2 games straight.
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It's up but it seems spotty. I got dropped from a game and it keeps saying achievements gone then it comes back.
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On December 06 2012 13:43 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:51 Blargh wrote:
Ok, it's time to anal yze this shit.
Medivac changes...
Mostly good changes, it seems though that #'s are increasing, but HP isn't in HotS. The increase in heal rate should be good versus spells like fungal and storm. The speed boost is at least a little interesting, giving terrans the ability to maneuver out of 'sticky situations' every 20 seconds. Obviously, the CD really only has relevance with drops, but it should definitely help with escaping once your ground army gets cleaned up. With buffs come the increased costs/build times, which is okay.
Reaper changes...
Sort of bad, reapers are mobile as is, they do NOT need to be nascars. That won't really add any more depth to them than what they currently have. There really isn't anything anyone trying to defend against them can do differently other than just build a spine crawler and look away (no micro/skill involved there).
Widow Mine changes...
Seems okay. It is a bit too good to hit cloaked units, but cloaked units are a bad design in the first place, basically relying on the "DETECTION OR NO DETECTION" system. Terrans obviously have scans, but you can't always rely on those. I see this change mostly having to do with banshees, but DTs too I suppose. It seems weird though, getting a turret for detection (which counters banshee) but then also getting a widow mine. The upgrade seems alright, but still I feel widow mines don't really have that much depth to them. Widow mines should be much more of a positional thing, sort of like how vulture's mines were in BW.
Thor changes...
Definitely the right move to remove the stupid cannon... The different modes feel a little weird, but are probably there to make mech a bit more viable vs various things. I don't really have complaints with the two modes, unless the new one turns out to be way too strong.
Raven changes.........
These made little sense to me. Now, I'm -okay- with the 10 range thing, it's cool and all. So is the 3 second charge up time, hi-lighting the target. But then, wtf, AoE is removed, so really the ONLY function of seeker missile now is to auto-kill T3 units. When I was first reading, I was thinking now people would be able to select the target being tracked and remove them from the group of units (to minimize splash dmg), requiring skill, but then nope, it's just that you move the single unit OUT of range (13 range) then it cancels. So, this is basically like a battle cruiser's laser beam???? Stupid change!
Hellbat
I think it's okay to have more splash radius, but the hellbat is a sort of stupid concept in the first place. It's pretty herpderp vs light melee units, which is always bad.
Armory
ffs yes. Best change in the whole thing, since switching from one tech to another is way harder for terran than any other race, really. Protoss can manage it easily enough since forge ups are pretty universal except air. Hopefully terran will have a more diverse army vs toss and even zerg now.
Mothership
Recall change is okay since the current one seems a bit weird. But why, why the fuck, is there an autokill spell for ONE target, which cannot even target massive?? What is the function of this? What will this add to the game? Is it the same placement as it is now or is it a target-style spell? Do not want!
Oracle
The new beam might have some place in the game, but honestly, what would this really be used on? Seems like they are just adding random spells/effects to their units and hoping they strike rich. The build time makes sense because the thing came out way too fast for how strong it was.
Penix change...
I don't think the unit needed more range. Since it attacks WHILE moving, you basically don't/can't micro it (you stop when you focus fire, if I recall) which just adds to the herpderpness of the game. Also, I don't want penix killing my shit from even further away, since OL's still die despite the whole main being covered with spore crawlers... Seems like another random change which shouldn't add any depth to the game. The researchable passive sure seemed like it.
Dark Shrine
Why the fuck are they making the thing even LESS expensive? Watching DTs =/= fun. The most skill-requiring part about DTs is just coming up with DT expand builds that force their opponent in their base or they take too much damage. Also, this affects early game so much more than it does late game because of obvious reasons (it costs less, you have more econ. late game). This change is horrible, DTs are a bad unit in the first place. "Free wins are even cheaper now! LOLX!"
Void Ray
Removal of the charge is okay since it pretty much didn't take any skill anyway. The unit itself is sort of too big, slow, expensive to be viable though. The CD spell seems like it's purpose is to give toss a way to kill T3? Seems a bit weird honestly. The toss will use it when there's armored units that need killing, but won't use it otherwise. It's available 1/3 of the time and finds don't usually last more than 20 seconds, so it seems sort of stupid. VR needs to have a more interesting function than what it's got.
Hydralisk
Yeah speed hydras seemed more of a lair thing since they are useless without it. Having it be hive tech seemed off because hydras were only truly viable for shitty timing attacks and ZvZ lategame (sometimes...) which means you wouldn't be able to get the upgrade in time for the timing attack or it wouldn't have any real use because hydras lategame zvz just tag along with BL's (slow units).
Mutalisk
Increased speed is about the worst thing you could do to the mutalisk. Now, it's even MORE of a hit and run unit. The thing will zip right across the map. What will this add to the game? Drop ships now get cleaned up a little bit faster? Spire rushes will now catch people even more offguard? I don't get it.
Swarm Host
The problem with the SH was sort of that it would just get sniped by blink stalkers and shit. But honestly, the thing is basically just a broodlord. It spawns some painful free units, but need support or just get sniped off. Unit should be like Lurker or something instead. I suppose increased HP helps some, but it doesn't really make the unit any more interesting. I'd like to see it with even less HP actually. Then zerg have to be really careful with them.
Infestor
I think we all knew that fungal should be a projectile.... But I'd like to see a decreased radius or something. Maybe decrease energy required and decrease damage and duration by a bit or something. Projectiles definitely take more skill than insta-derp casts, at least. IT eggs should have never been more than the unit itself... and since the things can snipe buildings relatively well even at 0/0, I'd say that change is okay.
Ultralisk
Not really sure what was wrong with the charge, but now it's just a super duper herp derp unit where you let it a-move into marine marauder. It's basically a stronger, tankier zealot. Zealot is a really shitty unit. In fact, zealots might be one of the stupidest units in the game, just because it literally doesn't take micro and it is tanky.
Viper
Increased health is an alright change, but I sort of feel that zergs should just take care of their spellcasters better. They have been spoiled with infestor being impossible to kill (fungal roots?). Which is still in the game too, so keeping a viper alive shouldn't be that hard.
Ok done, I give the overall changes a 4/10. Too many stupid, negative changes, but a few of the positive ones I definitely do agree with (Infestor.......) I spent good time on this post. Anyway, I really think they were just testing the waters with some more things. It'd be silly if they were expecting these to be final products since they added so many at once. Who knows though, it's Blizzard we're talking about.
I'll comment on a few things:
The oracle change is because it is a support caster + harass unit. The new spell is to give an option for protoss to worker harass, I think it could be interesting. It could also be lame, it's hard to tell right now.
Why is watching DTs not fun? I particularly like the tense moments when terran is at 48 OC energy and a DT is just about to enter the base. If the terran drops the MULE, he is in rough shape and has to have crisis management. If the terran saves the scan, then the protoss player basically loses because of the enormous investment. Even more so against zerg, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the zerg player not prepare for DTs, get their main base killed, their third base killed, but they walk across the map with a few roaches and the protoss has no collosi and a small sentry count, so they lose. Now, since it is a smaller investment, it is going to be less of a hit to the protoss to invest into. Also, in PvP, it might be worthwhile to get the DT shrine for a single archon to break forcefields for early attacks before collosi.
I'm sorry, but I can't trust anyone that says phoenix do not require micro. Super weak units that can only counter the unit they are suppose to hard-counter if you pay 100% attention to the unit. It is so weak, one slip-up and you lose your entire investment. With energy based harass style, you need to be active with them, plus with their speed you should be active around the map. I would go so far as to say it is arguably the most micro-intensive unit in the game when used correctly. You can never ever a-move phoenix. They HAVE to be micro'd. One reason people never went phoenix to fight mutas is how hard and time-intensive the micro was. You can't look away, and you can't mess up or its game over. The reason for the range buff is because mutas have a speed buff. Without it, it would be almost impossible to fight mutas with phoenix (the unit it is suppose to counter).
I agree with what you say about the viper. I really enjoy powerful support casters that are also super fragile. You need skill to make sure you don't lose the expensive unit to pull of its ability. I also definitely agree with you on the reaper, but we'll see.
As for the mutas, I think its a really exciting unit as a hit-and-run tactic. Kill tanks, get about before the marines rip them apart, kill some scvs and get out before the marines arrive. As for the rest, I'm not as happy/sad as you, more or less indifferent, we'll see how they play out. All-and-all, I'm pretty excited for these changes.
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ZvZ is going to be nuts on Lair tech. And, finally a patch we can all embrace.
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its up but i would wait an hour or so before playing any ranked
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On December 06 2012 13:47 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:34 Savko wrote:
What are we supposed to use vortex on? It doesn't effect massive units. Am I gonna use it to one shot a single infestor? You're not supposed to use it. They said they want to phase it out of competitive play completely.
That is fine, but why not replace the ability?
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How are zerg suppose to deal with marine medvac with the imbalanced hp heal?
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is this patch real? like wtf. blizz has never made one this big in... ever.
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EPT
