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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:46 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:42 opterown wrote:On December 06 2012 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 12:32 HTOMario wrote:On December 06 2012 12:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
HotS is finally looking like it will do for SC2 what BW did for SC--totally change the game. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Blizzard. Why is just throwing a load of stuff out there doing that? I'm not saying it won't, but BW had nowhere near as many random and un-linked changes as even this one patch has thrown there. BW design as distinct from the Vanilla version wasn't because of a ton of new stuff being added, but because everything they added or close to it actually functioned properly. A lot of things in brood war did not function properly, this is why there was the ability to mutalisk stack and hold command lurkers. Not to mention SC2 is striving to become better than BW at this point, by attempting to make every unit find use, and making many compositions viable. Not to mention mirror match-ups not sucking dick. (with exception of the "not serious unit" mothership...) imo they should make the mothership the ultimate BM unit, give it ridiculous over the top abilities that are really flashy but would not impact a pro game haha. They should give the Mothership a self destruct power. 10 second countdown, then it blows up like a giant baneling. Hilarious, and really perfect for trolling defeated opponents.
hahaha, i love it. would be fun to recall all your probes under the mothership and then blow it up :D
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In interviews, Blizzard said they wanted to phase out the Mothership in pro games and that's exactly what they're doing.
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wow i think this patch makes protoss air vs terran mech more possible, the voidray ability will deal great dps vs mech ground and with the new phoenix range+upgrade they will soft counter vikings. Tempests still remain strong vs all mech air and the thors new ability/yamato should help against the tempest/carrier combo. Will be fun to test it out!
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On December 06 2012 12:50 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 12:32 HTOMario wrote:On December 06 2012 12:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
HotS is finally looking like it will do for SC2 what BW did for SC--totally change the game. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Blizzard. Why is just throwing a load of stuff out there doing that? I'm not saying it won't, but BW had nowhere near as many random and un-linked changes as even this one patch has thrown there. BW design as distinct from the Vanilla version wasn't because of a ton of new stuff being added, but because everything they added or close to it actually functioned properly. A lot of things in brood war did not function properly, this is why there was the ability to mutalisk stack and hold command lurkers. Not to mention SC2 is striving to become better than BW at this point, by attempting to make every unit find use, and making many compositions viable. Not to mention mirror match-ups not sucking dick. (with exception of the "not serious unit" mothership...) It's not a matter of copying Brood War's unit interactions that annoys us who like both BW and SC2, in my case someone who's more familiar with SC2. It's the fact that Blizzard's aim 'make harassment better' as one of the stated ones, isn't applicable to everything, or necessarily going to improve the entire game to that effect. To illustrate this I'm going to start from scratch with the same intent to show you what I mean. Do not, I swear to god criticise the individual examples I have pulled out of my ASS to show the logic as somehow being 'wrong'. My stated aim for this patch - Currently a mystery!Protoss changes Zealot: Charge is now removed with the replacement of an upgrade that increases its passive speed Collosus: All stats remain the same with the exception of movement speed which is now a lot slower Carrier: Microability is increased through implementation of Tyler's video and its ideas on things like leash range Phoenix: No changes other than a slight change to energy to give slightly more gravitons be available for each Dark Templar: Has an upgrade to give it a very short lived, but active ability that increases its speed Terran changesHellion: Slightly reduced damage at the trade of an increase in microability Marauder: Concussive shells now slows a little less than before Thor: Replaced with a unit that is less strong individually but costs less individually and has better AA. More agile. Raven: Faster passive speed, auto-turrets no longer counted as buildings so able to be cast more intuitively. Zerg changesInfestor: Fungal growth unchanged from current WoL bar addition of projectile, and changing fungal to a slow Mutalisk: Acceleration is increased over where it is now, overall passive speed at full flight is the same Roach: The transition from burrow to unburrow is made faster for this specific unit Now, go ahead claim my changes are terrible. However if I hadn't told you my actual reason for every single change, could you guess what it is? If not, then you're perhaps not looking hard enough. If yes, then you validate my central premise, at least in terms of why Blizzard annoy me personally. Reveal to follow folks 
I don't get your point man. I read it as "Blizzard hasn't explained every detail to us so what their doing is..." bad? illogical? definitely not good, that much is clear.
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I would like to know, is this final? If it is, when does it get implemented?
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On December 06 2012 08:54 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 08:53 ZeroCartin wrote:
What the fuck does Vortex do now? Blizzard is trolling Protoss players with this change I guess. 
Land it on marines, Vikings, Tanks, Corruptors, and Hydras?
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Last big downtime lasted for over 24hrs...
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Northern Ireland27200 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:58 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 12:32 HTOMario wrote:On December 06 2012 12:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
HotS is finally looking like it will do for SC2 what BW did for SC--totally change the game. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Blizzard. Why is just throwing a load of stuff out there doing that? I'm not saying it won't, but BW had nowhere near as many random and un-linked changes as even this one patch has thrown there. BW design as distinct from the Vanilla version wasn't because of a ton of new stuff being added, but because everything they added or close to it actually functioned properly. A lot of things in brood war did not function properly, this is why there was the ability to mutalisk stack and hold command lurkers. Not to mention SC2 is striving to become better than BW at this point, by attempting to make every unit find use, and making many compositions viable. Not to mention mirror match-ups not sucking dick. (with exception of the "not serious unit" mothership...) It's not a matter of copying Brood War's unit interactions that annoys us who like both BW and SC2, in my case someone who's more familiar with SC2. It's the fact that Blizzard's aim 'make harassment better' as one of the stated ones, isn't applicable to everything, or necessarily going to improve the entire game to that effect. To illustrate this I'm going to start from scratch with the same intent to show you what I mean. Do not, I swear to god criticise the individual examples I have pulled out of my ASS to show the logic as somehow being 'wrong'. My stated aim for this patch - Currently a mystery!Protoss changes Zealot: Charge is now removed with the replacement of an upgrade that increases its passive speed Collosus: All stats remain the same with the exception of movement speed which is now a lot slower Carrier: Microability is increased through implementation of Tyler's video and its ideas on things like leash range Phoenix: No changes other than a slight change to energy to give slightly more gravitons be available for each Dark Templar: Has an upgrade to give it a very short lived, but active ability that increases its speed Terran changesHellion: Slightly reduced damage at the trade of an increase in microability Marauder: Concussive shells now slows a little less than before Thor: Replaced with a unit that is less strong individually but costs less individually and has better AA. More agile. Raven: Faster passive speed, auto-turrets no longer counted as buildings so able to be cast more intuitively. Zerg changesInfestor: Fungal growth unchanged from current WoL bar addition of projectile, and changing fungal to a slow Mutalisk: Acceleration is increased over where it is now, overall passive speed at full flight is the same Roach: The transition from burrow to unburrow is made faster for this specific unit Now, go ahead claim my changes are terrible. However if I hadn't told you my actual reason for every single change, could you guess what it is? If not, then you're perhaps not looking hard enough. If yes, then you validate my central premise, at least in terms of why Blizzard annoy me personally. Reveal to follow folks I don't get your point man. I read it as "Blizzard hasn't explained every detail to us so what their doing is..." bad? illogical? definitely not good, that much is clear.
I haven't explained any details at all. I haven't even told you a stated aim for the overall 'aim' of the patch. I've actually given you LESS information in terms of motivation than Blizzard
You can predict it if you try, 100% confident using basic logic to see a pattern that applies to them all. A pattern that is based in my central aim.
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On December 06 2012 12:59 Swish 41 wrote:
Last big downtime lasted for over 24hrs...
Seeing as how this downtime started with blizzard being you know, off work, I have a feeling this one will be as well.
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On December 06 2012 12:58 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:50 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:37 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 12:32 HTOMario wrote:On December 06 2012 12:30 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 12:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:
HotS is finally looking like it will do for SC2 what BW did for SC--totally change the game. This is the kind of stuff I wanted from Blizzard. Why is just throwing a load of stuff out there doing that? I'm not saying it won't, but BW had nowhere near as many random and un-linked changes as even this one patch has thrown there. BW design as distinct from the Vanilla version wasn't because of a ton of new stuff being added, but because everything they added or close to it actually functioned properly. A lot of things in brood war did not function properly, this is why there was the ability to mutalisk stack and hold command lurkers. Not to mention SC2 is striving to become better than BW at this point, by attempting to make every unit find use, and making many compositions viable. Not to mention mirror match-ups not sucking dick. (with exception of the "not serious unit" mothership...) It's not a matter of copying Brood War's unit interactions that annoys us who like both BW and SC2, in my case someone who's more familiar with SC2. It's the fact that Blizzard's aim 'make harassment better' as one of the stated ones, isn't applicable to everything, or necessarily going to improve the entire game to that effect. To illustrate this I'm going to start from scratch with the same intent to show you what I mean. Do not, I swear to god criticise the individual examples I have pulled out of my ASS to show the logic as somehow being 'wrong'. My stated aim for this patch - Currently a mystery!Protoss changes Zealot: Charge is now removed with the replacement of an upgrade that increases its passive speed Collosus: All stats remain the same with the exception of movement speed which is now a lot slower Carrier: Microability is increased through implementation of Tyler's video and its ideas on things like leash range Phoenix: No changes other than a slight change to energy to give slightly more gravitons be available for each Dark Templar: Has an upgrade to give it a very short lived, but active ability that increases its speed Terran changesHellion: Slightly reduced damage at the trade of an increase in microability Marauder: Concussive shells now slows a little less than before Thor: Replaced with a unit that is less strong individually but costs less individually and has better AA. More agile. Raven: Faster passive speed, auto-turrets no longer counted as buildings so able to be cast more intuitively. Zerg changesInfestor: Fungal growth unchanged from current WoL bar addition of projectile, and changing fungal to a slow Mutalisk: Acceleration is increased over where it is now, overall passive speed at full flight is the same Roach: The transition from burrow to unburrow is made faster for this specific unit Now, go ahead claim my changes are terrible. However if I hadn't told you my actual reason for every single change, could you guess what it is? If not, then you're perhaps not looking hard enough. If yes, then you validate my central premise, at least in terms of why Blizzard annoy me personally. Reveal to follow folks I don't get your point man. I read it as "Blizzard hasn't explained every detail to us so what their doing is..." bad? illogical? definitely not good, that much is clear.
Not to mention that blizzard explains their thoughts with the "Thoughts on Patch #" anyways
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On December 06 2012 12:59 Swish 41 wrote:
Last big downtime lasted for over 24hrs...
To be fair, they had some hardware failures last time that extended the downtime.
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Northern Ireland27200 Posts
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on?
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these changes are so huge, I don't know what to think. I can't even begin to comprehend how to play HotS now, it's like completely different. This is a good thing, I'm glad we got such grand changes.
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Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on?
Why does it have to be a single stated aim? Even a general aim is just a simplified way to looking at many different goals. If you're talking about general design philosophies, you can interpret it in many different ways. It becomes subjective as to what is the most "general" design philosophy.
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On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on?
Make Zerg more aggressive throughout the game and less reliant on the Infestor in the lategame. Make Terran mech viable in more matchups so they can play a more BW-esque style, and help bio in the lategame so Terran is less incentivized to go for the early kill. Seriously improve Protoss air.
Those are the goals. Its not rocket science or some big mystery.
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On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get!
The thing though is that a brood lord costs 300/250 to make. A raven costs 100/200. Even if you seeker missile the brood lord and your raven gets killed, it's still a win for you. It's a similar situation with an ultralisk. Plus, ravens only cost two supply. Basically, with absolutely no skill requirement, you're at best trading energy for very expensive units, and at worst trading a unit for a more expensive unit.
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So anyone else want to see someone try pheonix dt observer pvp again?
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On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on?
Sometimes I think you type just for the sake of doing so. You argue about nothing at all.
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On December 06 2012 13:06 Jaaaaasper wrote:
So anyone else want to see someone try pheonix dt observer pvp again?
Hell yeah!
On December 06 2012 13:05 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get! The thing though is that a brood lord costs 300/250 to make. A raven costs 100/200. Even if you seeker missile the brood lord and your raven gets killed, it's still a win for you. It's a similar situation with an ultralisk. Plus, ravens only cost two supply. Basically, with absolutely no skill requirement, you're at best trading energy for very expensive units, and at worst trading a unit for a more expensive unit.
Ah, I see what you're saying.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7199964202#1
Here is what they were going for with their changes, since you clearly didn't see it. Stop begging people to play your little game.
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EPT
