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Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:05 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on? Make Zerg more aggressive throughout the game and less reliant on the Infestor in the lategame. Make Terran mech viable in more matchups so they can play a more BW-esque style, and help bio in the lategame so Terran is less incentivized to go for the early kill. Seriously improve Protoss air. Those are the goals. Its not rocket science or some big mystery.
Simpler actually, although right track
Literally the thing I had written was 'Increasing the importance of micro', I deleted it out to remove that information so that you could approach it in the same way I approach these change and not understand wtf the links are
Except in my case, I'm trying to second-guess Blizz based on their own stated aims and balance that with how each thing fits in. I don't see the value in listing every single one and bitching, because it's unnecessarily negative, there are things there I like.
Things I like about the patch
-Shows Blizzard is more radical than we perhaps figured into our thinking. That in itself is good
-Protoss air changes: Show Blizzard wants to fix the versatility of air comps, while addressing the issues of both overlap and distinctive unit roles, also making the Void Ray a little more skill-based etc.
-DT changes. Makes DT less all-or-nothing in terms of having to do damage if you rush them, without making the actual rush outright better directly. Also makes them better lategame because the gas investment in a dark shrine isn't as heavy
-Other individual changes are great too at least potentially.
-Certain other individual changes
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Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on? Sometimes I think you type just for the sake of doing so. You argue about nothing at all.
Why pick up on my posts then? Just leave them to fester and be ignored if there's nothing motivating them. I don't presuppose your reasons for posting things in such a way, don't do it to me.
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Time for a Rise of the Patch Terrans.
I know I'll be one of them, cuz, you know, frankly a bit faster Hydra speed doesn't exactly equalize against heavily nerfed Infestors and mega-healing bio.
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I really want hydra/ling/corruptor to work. I really, REALLY want it to work.
Why the fuck can't it work?
Blizzard  .
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On December 06 2012 13:05 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get! The thing though is that a brood lord costs 300/250 to make. A raven costs 100/200. Even if you seeker missile the brood lord and your raven gets killed, it's still a win for you. It's a similar situation with an ultralisk. Plus, ravens only cost two supply. Basically, with absolutely no skill requirement, you're at best trading energy for very expensive units, and at worst trading a unit for a more expensive unit.
In those 3 seconds, it could be sniped really easily, i guess.
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Medivac
New ability: Emergency Thrusters
Speed boost that increases movement speed and acceleration to 4.25 for 8 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
The 20 second cooldown seems reasonable, because emergencies happen every 20 seconds.
/sarcasm
Put me down for "should have an energy cost".
Hellbat
Splash damage radius increased from 90 to 110.
Radius? Or, arc?
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On December 06 2012 12:51 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 12:45 L0L wrote:On December 06 2012 12:33 Serpico wrote:On December 06 2012 11:31 L0L wrote:
thank god comcast removed the 250gb bandwidth cap wait what's the new cap? there is no cap for comcast now And this is permanent for all intents and purposes? I can watch all my streams in HD NOW???
they are not monitoring how much you dl at this moment but it could change in the future.
they are looking into doing tiered download caps in the future. 300gb and then $10 for every additional 50gb. but right now there is no limit in the U.S.
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On December 06 2012 13:12 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:08 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on? Sometimes I think you type just for the sake of doing so. You argue about nothing at all. Why pick up on my posts then? Just leave them to fester and be ignored if there's nothing motivating them. I don't presuppose your reasons for posting things in such a way, don't do it to me.
Because you endlessly post in threads I am reading, derailing with aguements about vaporous ether with little to no meaning or substance.
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On December 06 2012 13:05 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get! The thing though is that a brood lord costs 300/250 to make. A raven costs 100/200. Even if you seeker missile the brood lord and your raven gets killed, it's still a win for you. It's a similar situation with an ultralisk. Plus, ravens only cost two supply. Basically, with absolutely no skill requirement, you're at best trading energy for very expensive units, and at worst trading a unit for a more expensive unit.
This way of looking at it is way too cut and dry, even neglecting each race's different income potentials. The starports with techlabs required to build ravens are a significant investment, as is the energy upgrade. The dynamics of how each unit functions outside of a large battle is also completely different. I.e., if a raven has built up enough energy for a seeker missile, it probably hasn't done much for the last few minutes and won't be doing much for then next few minutes. On the other hand, an ultralisk is useful all the time.
On December 06 2012 13:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:12 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 13:08 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on? Sometimes I think you type just for the sake of doing so. You argue about nothing at all. Why pick up on my posts then? Just leave them to fester and be ignored if there's nothing motivating them. I don't presuppose your reasons for posting things in such a way, don't do it to me. Because you endlessly post in threads I am reading, derailing with aguements about vaporous ether with little to no meaning or substance.
[off-topic]
Thank you, someone had to say this. Wombat, it's cool to see you become the newest spammer but unfortunately you're becoming an inflammatory/ignorant spammer type. Quality over quantity yo.
[/off-topic]
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Dark Shrine
Cost is now 100/100, down from 100/250.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 06 2012 13:14 idkfa wrote:Show nested quote +
Medivac
New ability: Emergency Thrusters
Speed boost that increases movement speed and acceleration to 4.25 for 8 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
The 20 second cooldown seems reasonable, because emergencies happen every 20 seconds. /sarcasm Put me down for "should have an energy cost". Radius? Or, arc?
Holy fuck, that's got to be what that means! I read that over like 5 times and just didn't know what the hell they were talking about. The units just didn't seem to fit. I haven't been in math for so long degrees just didn't occur to me lol.
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The Medivac speed boost should definitely be based on energy. Makes the unit much more interesting if it has to make choices between healing and improved mobility.
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I actually thought the use of mothership in pro-scene was kinda cool (when it was first conceived). Now its become too frequent. During the early days, pros would use it and lose horribly. It was like using carriers, people would excite, but it became a total let-down.
Now its become so integral in pro games, it needs to be put back on the shelf with the carrier. I think there are better options than nerfing it to hell. Even queen's spawn broodling spell was better than the now nerfed vortex.
Heres how you make the mothership fun and exciting, but used rarely in pro-games.
Mothership vortex aoe for sucking in units is reduced by 1/4. A maximum of 10 supply can be sucked in. If vortex reaches maximum capacity, it will close and reopen after 2 to 3 seconds. Vortex is out on the field for a maximum of 10 seconds. (So if units get sucked in faster than 10 seconds, vortex would close earlier and release after 2-3 seconds, essentially lessening the time units are disabled. force fields are broken if caste near the vortex when its releasing. Units would be pushed a distance away when vortex is releasing units (no archon toilet)
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new Pulsar Beam two shots workers, me likey :D
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Most of this patch looks really cool but I'm already a bit disappointed because here is what I think will happen:
1. Blizzard heavily buffs Terran and nerfs Infestors, Zerg only gets a bit faster Hydras and Mutas to compensate, whoopee!
2. Terrans rape Zergs.
3. Blizzard starts nerfing Terran again and fucking shit up when they should have just properly made some changes to Zerg in the first place because midgame tech still fucking blows.
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Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:12 Wombat_NI wrote:On December 06 2012 13:08 Plansix wrote:On December 06 2012 13:02 Wombat_NI wrote:
Irrelevant!
You should be able to predict why Blizzard are making each change, with reference to their stated aim. I shouldn't have to go through every single part of their balance post to explain this, my way is much more elegant
What is, in my hypothetical example, is my 'aim' and general design philosophy that I'm focusing on? Sometimes I think you type just for the sake of doing so. You argue about nothing at all. Why pick up on my posts then? Just leave them to fester and be ignored if there's nothing motivating them. I don't presuppose your reasons for posting things in such a way, don't do it to me. Because you endlessly post in threads I am reading, derailing with aguements about vaporous ether with little to no meaning or substance.
How's it derailing to discuss why I don't like the patch with some actual feedback as to why? For those who don't get my reasoning I'm explaining it further.
I also don't attack you for posting ways I don't like, so stop doing it to me.
How is it derailing to discuss the thread's remit, in any way? It's a thread about a patch. A patch I don't like. It's a discussion thread. I'm trying to discuss why.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 06 2012 13:16 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 13:05 GolemMadness wrote:On December 06 2012 10:02 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 09:58 GolemMadness wrote:
The seeker missile change is a bit uncreative as well. It's basically just a more powerful yamato. I don't think spells like that really have a place in the game anymore with smart casting. Basically just a hard counter to brood lords. Would it not be great to have more transitions/phases of the game? Imagine a bio or mech player adding Ravens to deal with BLs (I think it's much more of a soft counter). The energy takes a while to remake -- this makes the nature of your combined army to be slower, more deathballish/turtlish/defensive. This would then give incentive for zerg to react to that by going back to T1/2 units like bling ling muta. Suddenly your Ravens have no energy and can't help out anyways -- SM only works well against high HP single target units. You're right though, it doesn't feel very unique. Maybe it could be something like a missile that splits into 3 and hits the 2 closest units next to the target, does ~100 damage to all? Well anyway they are definitely going to be patching more after this, so I can't wait to see how much better it will get! The thing though is that a brood lord costs 300/250 to make. A raven costs 100/200. Even if you seeker missile the brood lord and your raven gets killed, it's still a win for you. It's a similar situation with an ultralisk. Plus, ravens only cost two supply. Basically, with absolutely no skill requirement, you're at best trading energy for very expensive units, and at worst trading a unit for a more expensive unit. This way of looking at it is way too cut and dry, even neglecting each race's different income potentials. The starports with techlabs required to build ravens are a significant investment, as is the energy upgrade. The dynamics of how each unit functions outside of a large battle is also completely different. I.e., if a raven has built up enough energy for a seeker missile, it probably hasn't done much for the last few minutes and won't be doing much for then next few minutes. On the other hand, an ultralisk is useful all the time.
Yeah, this is the best way to explain why just because the Raven can reliably trade itself for a more expensive unit in one engagement doesn't mean it's too strong. spending 200 gas ~2 minutes ago and getting literally no return on it until that 2 minutes is up, isn't equivalent to the guy who made a Corruptor 2 minutes ago, killed some Vikings, and then made a Brood Lord 40 seconds ago, did some damage to some Mech units, and then lost it to a Raven.
Basically this spell should allow Terrans to win most maxed engagements if they make enough Ravens, but that's how it was anyways. Now the spell is just more reliable and more anti-late game units. No real role before that though with SM.
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WOW imbalanced Terran, wtf. There is no point in having infestors if they are going to nerf this unit to hell.
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On December 06 2012 13:19 awesomoecalypse wrote:
The Medivac speed boost should definitely be based on energy. Makes the unit much more interesting if it has to make choices between healing and improved mobility.
I agree, they already have energy. Cooldown based abilities on an unit with energy just trivializes the energy system imo.
Might make the bonus energy part from Cadeus reactor a bit desirable too.
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EPT
